From Internetnews: “Shares of Sun jumped 10% after hours Monday on news that the company will help build a nationwide standard desktop software system in China. Sun said the China Standard Software Co. (CSSC) will use Sun’s Java Desktop System as the foundation for standard desktop development and deployment in the People’s Republic of China. CSSC is a consortium of Chinese technology companies backed by the Chinese government to produce a nationwide standard desktop software system, and Sun said it is now the CSCC’s preferred technology partner for reaching this goal.“
Nice.
That’s going to put Linux on a lot of Desktops, now if US companies would see the light 🙂
Sun made a really cheap offer.
It didn’t cost Sun much to make these computers so they don’t have to charge much. Where they are going to make their money is probably with servers. But even then those governments are going to have to pay FAR less than a MS solution would have cost them. And it will far more stable and less likely to get successful virus attacks.
tell that to the guys at wall street. they might have a
different opinion. show me the money….that’s all they want.
I guess Linux IS ready for the desktop!
500,000 to 1 million PER YEAR is alot of desktop.
I guess Linux will deplace Mac at #2 pretty soon.
Honestly, I think China does not need a Java Desktop from Sun and still paying $50 per copy…they can do it by themselves…they can even clone the SPARC chips, the rest of the hardware and then install 100% free software on it….this makes me recall this old joke about the chinese gentleman that brings his Ferrari at the bank and ask for a 5k loan out of it… 😉
Anyways…I love this huge Linux push on the desktop! and the massive GNOME Desktop deployment…I really hope this can happen in my country someday
China didnt paid $50 per copy, they got support from Sun for $50 per copy. Note the difference. Support for $50 per copy is a hell of a deal. Try getting that anywhere in the US.
Honestly, I think China does not need a Java Desktop from Sun and still paying $50 per copy…they can do it by themselves…they can even clone the SPARC chips, the rest of the hardware and then install 100% free software on it….
So your logic is… why buy any finished products at all when you can simply buy the raw materials and build everything yourself?
Next time you need a new processor, instead of buying one why not make your own out of a pile of sand for free?
I couldn’t be more thrilled at an actual CONTENDER to Microsoft’s monopoly. We are in for some exciting times, folks.
jm
“That’s going to put Linux on a lot of Desktops, now if US companies would see the light :-)”
Yes, it’s going to be embarrassing that the U.S. is going to be the last country to switch to Open Source. The rest of the world will be using Linux, and we’ll still be trying to figure out what to do with Bill and Steve.
Before someone brings that up yet again, repeat after me:
“Linux for the desktop – Solaris for the server.”
“Linux for the desktop – Solaris for the server.”
“Linux for the desktop – Solaris for the server.”
That is Sun’s strategy, mkay?
“Yes, it’s going to be embarrassing that the U.S. is going to be the last country to switch to Open Source. The rest of the world will be using Linux, and we’ll still be trying to figure out what to do with Bill and Steve.”
What is your point? You think open-source (or shall I say, “corporate open-source”) is always better than all other software? Use what works, open-source or not open-source. Open-source DOES NOT simply make a product better. There are plenty of open-source projects out there that are visibly inferior to their non-open-source counterparts.
because if Sun takes all the business, what business can my new support firm get in China?
But it is definitely good news for the OSS community.
Yeah kind of like the whole metric and standard systems. Metric is easier to use and a lot more accurate but for some reason we are stock with the standard system in the U.S.
Sabon (IP: —.ci.seattle.wa.us) – Posted on 2003-11-18 19:18:53
It didn’t cost Sun much to make these computers so they don’t have to charge much. Where they are going to make their money is probably with servers. But even then those governments are going to have to pay FAR less than a MS solution would have cost them. And it will far more stable and less likely to get successful virus attacks.
Aye? they never sold any computers to China. Most likely the computers will be sourced from Legend Holdings or some other local computer supplier.
MrPillows (IP: 162.129.152.—) – Posted on 2003-11-18 23:19:09
“Yes, it’s going to be embarrassing that the U.S. is going to be the last country to switch to Open Source. The rest of the world will be using Linux, and we’ll still be trying to figure out what to do with Bill and Steve.”
What is your point? You think open-source (or shall I say, “corporate open-source”) is always better than all other software? Use what works, open-source or not open-source. Open-source DOES NOT simply make a product better. There are plenty of open-source projects out there that are visibly inferior to their non-open-source counterparts.
I think the point he was trying to get at is the fact that the US has placed it self further behind the eighth ball. Using imperial measurements is one, hanging on to Windows because we have patriotic buying fruit cakes out there who only buy software from the US of A; yes, believe me, there are idits out there who put their so-called “patriotism” ahead of pragmatic thought. Just look at SUN and TI. There is NO logical reasoning for using TI over UMC or TSMC apart from the fact that SUN could move all its assembly operations to China/Taiwan, cut their production costs buy 70% and actually jump back into profitability.
“yes, believe me, there are idits out there who put their so-called “patriotism” ahead of pragmatic thought.”
Whoa there stranger. Stick to the topic. No one here is talking about patriotism. Don’t even begin to bring that into this discourse about open-source software. And yes, there are plenty of people who use non-open-source software out there because they like to based upon productivity and technological benefits, patriotism aside.
It is a shame that Sun has to compete in the desktop space based mainly upon price points after they have clearly lost out on the innovation front. They made such a great server OS. But, they couldn’t bring that innovation to the desktop space.
“yes, believe me, there are idits out there who put their so-called “patriotism” ahead of pragmatic thought.”
Whoa there stranger. Stick to the topic. No one here is talking about patriotism. Don’t even begin to bring that into this discourse about open-source software. And yes, there are plenty of people who use non-open-source software out there because they like to based upon productivity and technological benefits, patriotism aside.
There are also people who put their religious convictions ahead of using OpenSource software. As the old saying goes, “it could only happen in America”.
It is a shame that Sun has to compete in the desktop space based mainly upon price points after they have clearly lost out on the innovation front. They made such a great server OS. But, they couldn’t bring that innovation to the desktop space.
What innovation needs to be bought to the desktop? its a friggin desktop! people type, send emails and so forth. Unless you are able to come up with a programme that does away for the need to have an employee, the whole “innovation” argument is nothing more than a ball of bullcrap used by marketing departments to blow a particular features way out of proportion to what reality wants.
Have a look at their long term stratergy; integration between their application server and StarOffice is one example of where they’re “innovating” (and yes, that word is in quotations for a reason).
What’s up with that.
People seem to be treating this as some corporate account that Sun won. Sun just won a contract to supply most of the desktop OSes to what will probably be the most powerful economy of the 21st century. Sun has their foot in the door to build all the computing systems for 1.2 billion people.
This should really open Microsoft’s eyes. Here is a major example of why closed source and expensive can hurt you in the long run. If this deal works out properly, Microsoft just lost out on the biggest opportunity in their history.
I can’t say that I’ve noticed a concerted effort on behalf of the American people or the U.S. government to foist Microsoft products on the rest of the computer industry. Then again I haven’t seen too many attempts to “destroy countries”, either… but I could be mistaken. The fact is… proving that Microsoft doesn’t have a legal right to operate in its current form has shown itself to be a very difficult task.
Anyway, back to Sun… part of me wonders if their plans are to play around with this Linux stuff for a couple of years while getting Solaris x86 up to spec (e.g., full binary compatibility w/ Linux), and then make a serious push for the desktop — closely tied to Web servers, Java, etc. If they could give game developers (the big ones, I mean) a solid reason to move game development over to Java, they’ll really have something going for the desktop. Java’s not ready for it now… but a year from now maybe? Who knows.
You really have to wonder what all these companies’ long-term strategies are. Too much conjecture for me. We’ll just have to wait.
John
But there has to be some concern about a country like China that’s in a pretty sad socio-political climate; i.e., concern about receiving technological assistance from American (or any) companies.
I’d feel a lot more comfortable if the socio-political problems were ironed out first, and then something like this come about.
I love Sun… and as a shareholder this is good news. But I can’t deny that my conscience is at least slightly piqued.
Later,
J
>The thing that gets me is that the Americans are >destroying countries in the name of democracy, while at >the same time they are pushing a monopoly on the computer >industry.
Please don’t lump all Americans into one group, I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. I for one am grateful for the US (and I’m not even an America), without the US, Europe would still probably be under Natzi rule. Sure western governments have their ups and downs, but that’s the nature of democracy, we might be going through a bad patch but it’s far far better than a dictatorship.
If you really want to vent your anger, try reading about the last 50 years of rule in China, perhaps that will open your eyes.
I assume you feel bad about supporting a country with an awful record on human rights. But you can’t ignore the reality that the Communist party isn’t going to go away for a long long time. So the reality of choices is either communists with a low standard of living or communists with a good standard of living
You people are acting like Hypocrites, now all of the sudden Linux is too good for China? Now China has political problems as if the US is just perfectly fine and flawless?
China is not perfect,but if we dont help educate them, give them technology and trade with them, they’ll never improve.
Just like we will never improve if people dont protest, march for civil rights, boycott companies, and vote.
The USA is just as flawed as China, we have companies completely controlling our government, our governments decisions are influenced by the whims and emotion of the stock market.
I say we give China Linux, let China have a decent economy and maybe then they will solve some of their social issues when they are free to worry about stuff besides starving to death.
If you think China is such an enemy go ahead and declare war on them, but dont tell people its patriotic to hate China, I could say its patriotic to hate Microsoft for exporting millions of jobs to India, I should boycott the anti American Microsoft.
“I assume you feel bad about supporting a country with an awful record on human rights. But you can’t ignore the reality that the Communist party isn’t going to go away for a long long time. ”
This country had slavery, segregation, lynchings, women had absolutely no rights, gays just now have the right to get married.
The USA is not the country to preach about civil rights when we like to pass laws like the Patriot ACT and DMCA, we never followed the constitution yet we somehow can push our constitution on China as if we somehow are superior?
Sure USA has its strengths, China has its strengths, but China is improving A LOT, at a very fast rate and I do not see why we should boycott them and try to stop their progression.
I’d like to avoid a cold war with China.
This move by China is bound to have a very significant impact on the future technology choices of the rest of Asia, and elsewhere…
Finally Communism in theory is not the problem with China just like Capitalism in theory is not the problem with America.
The problem with both Capitalism and Communism is they both lead to dictatorships, both systems can be corrupted.
Democracy in theory is what we preach, funny thing is the US has never been a democracy. We are a republic, how many of you could win if you ran for senate? Only the ones with the most money can win which means most elections are pre determined because 90% of the people running are rich and sponsored by companies like Enron.
“The thing that gets me is that the Americans are destroying countries in the name of democracy, while at the same time they are pushing a monopoly on the computer industry.”
Please don’t lump all Americans into one group, I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. I for one am grateful for the US (and I’m not even an America), without the US, Europe would still probably be under Natzi rule. Sure western governments have their ups and downs, but that’s the nature of democracy, we might be going through a bad patch but it’s far far better than a dictatorship.
Actually that wouldn’t be the case as the more likely senario would be a much larger Stalinist Soviet Union and the likelihood of the allies standing by whilst the “red menece” increased in size would be would be laughable at best.
If you think that the Marshall Plan was made because the US’s hearts bleed for those living in Europe, you’re more deluded than I thought. The whole point was to stop the seeds of communism taking root in Western Europe. Had Europe languished in poverty, the roots of communism would form and today we would have a communist Europe.
As for the US standing up for democracy, have you forgotten the number of dictators put into office in South America in the name of stopping communism. When is Kissenger finally going to admit that he authorised the bombing of Cambodia without congress approval and against what Nixon promised, “the war will not spread beyond Vietnam”.
The difference is, when a country in another part of the world commits these sorts of actions, the countries people face what they have done, address it and move on. The US, however, loves to believe that it never happened or spin it in such a way that they were the victims or the heroes. When was the last American you knew of who had a clue about things that happen outside their border. Ask the average yank, “who is Bismark?”, “Who was the sucessor to Elizabeth I?”, and no, the “our country is big” arguement doesn’t wash. Using that logic Brits should know nothing about any other country as they (according to US logic) would be too engrosed in their own interesting history; which is far more interesting that hearing about a bunch of whining colonalists, a few battles and slaves being freed.
Sun is a better company than Microsoft. The Chinese didn’t want to have poor quality products forced on them, so Sun was a logical choice over Microsoft. Linux also offers the advantage that it’s an open platform, and the Chinese have interest in developing their own software and maintaining control over their investment. There isn’t much more to say.
“I’d feel a lot more comfortable if the socio-political problems were ironed out first…”
Letting politicians “work it out” first would create literal hell on earth. There will be special rules and inequities whose basis are purely political, and they will create a perverse and unnatural business climate (one only a mother could love). If you want real reform in China, gradually introduce free trade throughout the world (in the true sense, not some Republican I’ll-scratch-your-back crap). The economic pressure would be so great from the wealth pouring into their country that, one day, communism will pretty much collapse there as it did in the USSR. It would take years, but it would happen and for the right reasons.
Nov. 17, 2003
Brazil Turns Away From Microsoft
http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=16…
Nov. 14, 2003
Hewlett Packard launches notebooks in India pre-loaded with Mandrake 9.1
http://www.ciol.com/content/news/2003/103111412.asp
Nov. 13, 2003
Linux operating system secures place on Middle East’s technology agenda
http://www.ameinfo.com/news/Detailed/31146.html
November 12, 2003
Microsoft Loses to Linux in Thailand Struggle
http://linuxinsider.com/perl/story/32110.html
November 5, 2003
China to invest in Linux-based software
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/11/05/china.linux.reut/index.h…
October 30, 2003
Vietnam embracing open-source products
http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/business/columnists/…
October 10, 2003
IBM, Brazilian government launch Linux effort
http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/10/10/HNibmbrazil_1.html
October 10, 2003
UK tests open source waters
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3181108.stm
Oct 1, 2003
Korea jettisons Windows for Linux
http://www.silicon.com/software/os/0,39024651,10006225,00.htm
September 20, 2003
Asia looks to Linux
http://newsobserver.com/business/story/2883295p-2657876c.html
August 18, 2003
China blocks foreign software use in gov’t
http://asia.cnet.com/newstech/applications/0,39001094,39146335,00.h…
June 20, 2003
The Feds (US DoD) Love Linux
http://www.forbes.com/2003/06/20/cz_eb_0620linux.html
June 18, 2003
Extremadura, Spain goes Linux
http://www.gnome.org/press/releases/extremadura.html
May 28 2003
Germany chooses Linux, removes Windows
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/error/404.htm
Awesome, but we shouldn’t forget that these advancements are also moving open standards forward, in general. It won’t be Microsoft in their little standards microuniverse, anymore.
Sir:
Thank you VERY much for posting all of these stories naming countries that have switched over to Linux/Unix/Misc. Although Bill Gates is the richest man in the world (or so I’ve heard), this must make him rather uneasy…and deservedly so.
John
As was iterated by a number of other posters, this is big news for Sun. Notions that Sun Microsystems will fold should now be dispelled.
The bigger news is – again as previously stated – the advancement of open source and open standards. This is happening in many parts of the world, and will only become more frequent as time goes on.
If the world continues as it is now, with Microsoft bucking the trend, but with open source and open standards continuing to promulgate, then before too long millions of users will be put into a position of choosing which camp they want to be in. This is the same kind of ‘choice’ that was narrowly averted on the World Wide Web, in the Communicator 4.x/IE 4.x days. I’ve already made my choice, with an iBook.
Open standards can bridge this gap and make the question irrelevant if Microsoft becomes serious about being part of the open standards process. I would be the first to cheer! Platform-independent computing and data access; neato. But it remains a dream, for now.
There are obviously those on this forum with strange ideas about China and the Chinese. I will offer just one comment on this (as it is somewhat off-topic): “Challenge your preconceptions, or they’ll challenge you.”.