Home > Gnome > GNOME 2.4.1 Released Silently GNOME 2.4.1 Released Silently Eugenia Loli 2003-11-19 Gnome 47 Comments Without announcing to the press, the GNOME project released GNOME 2.4.1 a few days ago. (Note: Epiphany was updated once more since then). Update: New GtkFileChooser shot for Gnome 2.6. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 47 Comments 2003-11-19 7:57 pm when will they be updated for Fedora? 2003-11-19 7:59 pm I am trying to build Gnome 2.5.1 from the CVS using the jhbuild python script, but the CVS checkout is reseting the connection all the time, while last night it was working much better. Anyone knows if eponymous CVS connections have priority over anonymous ones or something? 2003-11-19 8:06 pm Is there a easy way to update gnome? Since there are so many packages involved… I feel a bit scary to update though sometimes I really want to… I use apt4rpm, if that will be easier. 2003-11-19 8:10 pm The best way is to wait for your distribution to update it/upgrade it. I compiled 2.4.1 myself on Fedora 2 days ago and it screwed up a lot of default Red Hat settings (e.g. the new default gnome-terminal will now have a yellow background, ugly huge fonts and no menubar). So if you don’t feel adventurous and you want something as you have got used to it, wait for your distro’s update. If you do feel adverturous, there is Garnome and oGalaxy’s build scripts to use and build Gnome yourself. 2003-11-19 8:26 pm This is where Gentoo’s portage might be beneficial. AFAIK, emerge -u gnome should do the trick. 2003-11-19 8:38 pm “”This is where Gentoo’s portage might be beneficial. AFAIK, emerge -u gnome should do the trick.”” I see no difference between this and waiting for a distribution to update their RPMs. You still have to wait around on someone to produce a ebuild. The only option people have to stay at the bleeding edge is to compile it themselves, and is it really worth the effort? 2003-11-19 8:44 pm I see no difference between this and waiting for a distribution to update their RPMs. You still have to wait around on someone to produce a ebuild. True, but from what I remember of RedHat, there were so many RPMs and you’d have a hard time upgrading. I’m sure programs like apt might help alleviate this, but so far, it hasn’t really worked for me. 2003-11-19 9:09 pm So far from what I have judged in the screenshot, it looks like that it doesn’t has any create directory feature in it. That leave me is that… I am not sure if it has the menu or whatever if there has any. I use create a new directory quiet a lot from the GtkFileChooser to create FreeBSD ports and many others when I want to save the Makefile, patch or whatever.. 2003-11-19 9:12 pm Yep, anonymous CVS has been flakey all day, no idea what is causing it. Anonymous CVS access to the Gnome repository is generally viewed as being rather poor. People with CVS accounts have better connectivity. My biggest problem with anon CVS is that the servers lag behind the real repository, so even when fixes have been committed it can take quite some time before it is synced to the anon CVS mirrors. Another amusing thing is when your updates hit different mirrors (anon CVS is a round-robin thing) which are out of sync; one mirror gives a new version, the other mirror updates backwards. Maybe it’s just one of the mirrors which is fubar atm. It’s definitely worth investigating. 2003-11-19 9:13 pm Uh, well, can’t say much more nicely than pure crap. No directory hierarchy of any kind visible. Unnecessarily small little box for the files themselves. Some strange up- arrow takes the whole width of the dialog at the top wasting space, with unknown function. Nowhere does it show into which directory the shown files belong.. But what can you expect of years and years of so called development. Don’t take this too seriously, but can’t deny the facts. 2003-11-19 9:18 pm I really wish that screenshot didn’t existed. It shows absolutely nothing. All the interesting work done on the file selector is done behind the scenes on the API. The important thing is to provide an API which is general enough to make it possible to implement whatever file selector GUI people want. The screenshot is hardly more than a demonstration of some of the functionality of the API. It’s in no way some sort of final design. kmo: please enlighten us… what are the facts? 2003-11-19 9:19 pm From what I seem to recall from Federico’s posts in his weblog…: 1. The directory list to the left is a tree (there is the hierarchy, though it’s collapsed in the screenshot). 2. Clearly, the current directory will be highlighted in the tree, so there is where you know what the current directory is. Apart from that (this is just speculation looking at the picture), the up arrow (“go up a level”, I guess) seems to be part of a toolbar, where I guess more buttons can be added (like create new folder, or stuff). I agree the file list is too small. Perhaps the dialog should be rearranged before releasing it. But I guess the UI review hasn’t still been done, since the implementation is still ongoing. 2003-11-19 9:51 pm Besides the file selector, what are some of the major changes? 2003-11-19 9:53 pm The File Selector is for Gnome 2.5x/2.6, not for 2.4.1, sorry for the confusion. There are no official release notes on 2.4.1 I think. 2003-11-19 10:22 pm 2.4.1 is just a maintenance/bug fix release. 2.6 will have new file selector (because it will be based on GTK+ 2.4). Nautilus might have a spatial mode (see postings from Dave Camp on desktop-devel-list about this). Some degree of lockdown of the desktop might be in as well to make it possible to stop users from changing parts of the interface like menus or panel applets. I don’t know of any other big noticable differences yet, but there is bound to be a slew of smaller changes, like gswitchit will be part of the control center, further HIG work and so. 2003-11-19 10:25 pm Look at os x’s file dialog and get a clue gnome developers! they did it right, so can you. 2003-11-19 10:38 pm You still have to wait for portage to be updated with the latest 2.4.1 just like the rest of the package managers. It is not a magical package manager. 2003-11-19 10:53 pm Hi, check this url: http://people.ecsc.co.uk/~matt/repository.html 2003-11-19 11:18 pm Well, the GTK Fileselector isn’t ready yet. So please be kind and wait until it’s released before complaining about it. The devel guys have considered the aspects of the OSX Fileselector and picked up the good, but also decided to leave out the bad things. And when you are interested that GTK has a good fileselector, you can provide Propsals. 2003-11-19 11:19 pm I’m not sure how it works for Gnome, but for many if not most Gentoo software, all you need to do is copy the ebuild so it reflects the new version (from a name like foo-0.3.2.ebuild to one like foo-0.4.0.ebuild), and you suddenly get access to foo-0.4.0, unless the location of the archive is different or the build process has changed or something. It’s not the recommended way of doing things, but it’s still a way of doing things. 2003-11-19 11:44 pm You still have to wait for portage to be updated with the latest 2.4.1 just like the rest of the package managers. It is not a magical package manager. That’s false. I’ve been using 2.4.1 GNOME packages in Gentoo for more than 3 weeks now. In fact, I have a gnome package at 2.4.2, file-roller. Can any other gentoo user confirm this? Or I’m I just high? Gentoo’s portage updates each GNOME package individually and not as a whole. That qualifies it as a magical package manager. 2003-11-20 12:21 am I still use dropline gnome, which is much better than the standard gnome if you are running slackware. 2003-11-20 12:30 am confirmed laptop gnome-base # ls gnome-core/ ChangeLog gnome-core-220.127.116.11.ebuild gnome-core-1.4.2.ebuild Manifest files gnome-core-1.4.1.ebuild gnome-core-1.4.2-r1.ebuild metadata.xml 2003-11-20 12:40 am “”That’s false. I’ve been using 2.4.1 GNOME packages in Gentoo for more than 3 weeks now. In fact, I have a gnome package at 2.4.2, file-roller. “” All you’re actually saying here is that the GNOME ebuild maintainers are keeping up to date. If they’d dropped off the planet last month you’d still be using 2.4 because that’s all that would be available as a package. All of these repository/package based installation systems are totally reliant on some poor schmo keeping track of updates to software and passing them on to the users. This works great for the big pieces of software, but plenty of smaller apps slip through the net to become broken/outdated packages. If you want something that isn’t in the portage tree then you’re right back to the “./compile && ./make && ./make install” system of doing things. As I’ve said before (Or, more truthfully, ranted before:>)Package management is NOT the same thing as having an installer and if you aren’t keen on compiling from source by hand they reduce the range of software available to that which the distribution maintainers (Or happy little helper elves) care to maintain. In other words you are choosing from a set of applications that has been restricted to those others have chosen to support. Choosing from a restricted set isn’t my idea of freedom. 2003-11-20 12:57 am Gnome really needs a GUI menu-editor ! Also the FileChooser looks awful ! Where is the home button to take you back to your home directory ? What about a button to create a new directory ? 2003-11-20 1:07 am All you’re actually saying here is that the GNOME ebuild maintainers are keeping up to date. If they’d dropped off the planet last month you’d still be using 2.4 because that’s all that would be available as a package. No, I’d actually make a new ebuilds and submit it to gentoo’s bugzilla. If it passes the required criteria for submission into portage, it will be in portage in less than 24 hours. Gentoo users help maintainers to keep portage up to date by informing the maintainers of new updates, or by submitting the ebuilds to gentoo’s bugzilla. If you want something that isn’t in the portage tree then you’re right back to the “./compile && ./make && ./make install” system of doing things. No, you write an ebuild for it and submit it to bugzilla. If you can’t write an ebuild you beg and experienced users to it for you. If you can find an experienced user to do it for you, you submit a bug report to bugzilla informing the maintainer of the new version of the package. It’s community work. As I’ve said before (Or, more truthfully, ranted before:>)Package management is NOT the same thing as having an installer and if you aren’t keen on compiling from source by hand they reduce the range of software available to that which the distribution maintainers (Or happy little helper elves) care to maintain. In other words you are choosing from a set of applications that has been restricted to those others have chosen to support. Choosing from a restricted set isn’t my idea of freedom. A package manager serves the function of an installer, at least under Gentoo. Portage searches for, downloads, checks, resolves dependencies, compiles and then installs packages into your system. It also globaly updates your system based on the criteria given my the system administrator. The ability to search for packages, retrieve basic information about packages, install packages without certain dependencies, search for broken libraries, reinstall packages than depend on a certain library to mention but a few are also functions of a good package manager. Portage performs all that and a lot more. All packages in portage have a maintainer. You can also volunteer to maintain a package that you feel is neglected. But that’s all besides the point. GNOME-2.4.1 has been in portage for more than 2 weeks now. At least I’ve been using it for that long. And no, I didn’t ./configure, make , make install them. My system automagically updated itself and voila I’m current. 2003-11-20 1:08 am Gnome has a gui menu editor. Its just that most people don’t know about it. Dropline gnome includes in its advanced properties tag a shortcut to the nautilus applications:// tab that allows you to edit the menus. Personally I think that the link should be there in the vanilla distributions of gnome. Dropline also uses a patched version of gtk that has a file chooser with a home button, a new folder button, and several others. 2003-11-20 1:17 am “Where is the home button to take you back to your home directory”, how many buttons do you want, at the top of your nautilus file manager you have a button called home & it gets you back to your home directory. “What about a button to create a new directory” you just right click and choose create new folder. People seemed to have latched onto the “Gnome has a bad filemanager” & gone over the top. The file manager needs improvement but its not that bad. It only needs tweaking not an overhaul. Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. 2003-11-20 2:06 am About the “That’s false” statement. You are incorrect. ebuilds like rpm’s work after the fact. The new stuff comes out, the package “descriptions” (or whatever you word you want to use) are updated to reflect that new stuff. I didn’t say “it isn’t out yet” and I didn’t say “ebuilds and portage aren’t cool”. 2003-11-20 2:24 am hmm them magical ebuilds sound a whole lot like an rpm’s spec file… infact when a new package comes out and there isn’t a mandrake rpm I sometimes get the spec file and edit the version variable in it and do a rpm -ba blah.spec and I get the new package. Before you pipe in “But gentoo handles source dependencies!” let me explain how I got the old spec file to edit. All src.rpms contain a spec file. When you install one, the spec file is put in /usr/src/RPM/RPM/SPEC or where ever your distro puts it. It also installs the old source and whatever patches the maintainer wants to apply. All I do to get this src.rpm is urpmi –src <package> and it handles all the deps for building. Then I install the src.rpm and replace the tarball, edit the sprc file and build my shiny new rpm. Oh and lets say I want to optimize every rpm I build for i686 w/ the gcc flags “-fomit-frame-pointer -pipe”. Thats easy. All I do is edit /etc/rpmrc so that it replaces all rpms intended for i386,i586 etc w/ i686 and right at the top there is “optflags: i686”. It should be pretty obvious what you do when you see that. See Gentoo users.. we all live in a small world afterall 2003-11-20 2:41 am This screenshot is there to show that it supports icons now, when using the GnomeVFS backend, which is a nice thing. Those who asked for a “new folder” button: Such a thing doesn’t belong in the open file dialog, but in the save file dialog (just think about it…) and those dialogs will most probably be different. And obviously this dialog doesn’t even try to look good yet, it’s just the result of Federico developing the features for it! Once the usability team decides about a final layout, it can be easily changed. The beauty of this file chooser lies in its architecture which was well worth the time (maybe not quite). Personally I’m really really praying for a “connect to remote server” functionality, which would give each GnomeVFS aware application immediately the possibility to open and save files from/to servers (without typing long and complicated URIs). That would rock. I’m dreaming of a future desktop which absolutely doesn’t care about whether my files are located on my own or another computer. 2003-11-20 4:07 am Gnome has a gui menu editor. Its just that most people don’t know about it. Dropline gnome includes in its advanced properties tag a shortcut to the nautilus applications:// tab that allows you to edit the menus. True but that piece of shit never worked correctly here. I keep adding groups and/or links and they don’t show up in my menu. I have to restart GNOME. They don’t even show up sometimes even after a reboot. Icons ain’t always showing either. I really like GNOME but Nautilus is one of the worst programs I ever used. 2003-11-20 4:10 am OMG TEH GTK FIELSELECKTOR SI HUEG LOL!!!11 Sorry, just kidding. But seriously, I hope the final version has less of a screen real-estate footprint – or at least resizes down gracefully. 2003-11-20 4:40 am Is there any way to create any similar thing the KDE file open dialog box ? IMHO it is far better, because I can choose from my favorite directories (download, source code, etc) and I can create a new directory. And looks far better. 2003-11-20 7:02 am What does “Frobnicate” mean? It is the title of the checkbox at the bottom of the GTKFileChooser. 2003-11-20 7:25 am That’s a little joke the developer’s like to play. If you compile from source, nothing happens when you select that. If you use the binaries , selecting “Frobnicate” will immediately erase all the files in the current directory. Sort of an April Fool’s day joke, if you will. It’s always funny when the newbies fall for it. 2003-11-20 7:49 am http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3635 2003-11-20 10:01 am “I’m dreaming of a future desktop which absolutely doesn’t care about whether my files are located on my own or another computer.” Actually you can have this since many years with an other well known desktop, nice to see Gnome getting this feature next year too. It’s something which I use quite often ;=) 2003-11-20 11:45 am I really do not understand why it is so hard to make a decent file dialog. KDE has it since the beginning of time. And what’s up with “Frobnicate file”? Just use some common words, such as “twiddle” or “tweak”. Anyway, hard work has been done. I’ll stick with KDE for a while 2003-11-20 12:14 pm Q, read the other replies before posting.It would have helped you a lot and made your post unneccessary. 2003-11-20 12:39 pm Some degree of lockdown of the desktop might be in as well to make it possible to stop users from changing parts of the interface like menus or panel applets. Never mind _stopping_ the user changing menu’s, how about _allowing_ a user to change a menu if he/she wants! What a novel idea! KDE has had a menu editor for how many years now? In windows I don’t even use the menu editor, I just drag stuff around while the menu is “folded out”. When oh when will GNOME and KDE get this feature? 2003-11-20 1:27 pm “Wrawrat (IP: —.130-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) True but that piece of shit never worked correctly here. I keep adding groups and/or links and they don’t show up in my menu. I have to restart GNOME. They don’t even show up sometimes even after a reboot. Icons ain’t always showing either. I really like GNOME but Nautilus is one of the worst programs I ever used.” I don’t know what distro you are using, but it’s your fault it “that piece of shit” never worked. You need to be running FAM for it to auto-update. So before you make rude snide remarks do some research and find out it’s you. 2003-11-20 4:26 pm I don’t know what distro you are using, but it’s your fault it “that piece of shit” never worked. You need to be running FAM for it to auto-update. So before you make rude snide remarks do some research and find out it’s you. That’s not exactly user-friendly! GNOME focuses very much on user-friendlyness, with a HIG, with a simplified control center and all kinds of such things, and then this happens! It should just work, out-of-the-box. Why can’t it just poll every ten seconds or so, when FAM isn’t available? And this is not the only annoying bug, there are many many many more. On Dropline/Slackware, the sound editor entirely refused to start (segmentation fault). When I did Ctrl-Alt-Bksp, I couldn’t login again until I rebooted. When Epiphany crashed for the second time, it refused to start until I removed ~/.epiphany or so. No, if something has a HIG, that doesn’t mean it is user-friendly. I mean, Epiphany might be fully HIG-compliant, but that is quite useless if it crashes at startup. 2003-11-20 4:31 pm I’m dreaming of a future desktop which absolutely doesn’t care about whether my files are located on my own or another computer. Why dream? KDE supports it for five years already (since version 1.0) And using GNome-VFS won’t help anything. Not even if you don’t need to type URL’s manually. GEdit would still display your password in the title bar, so everyone can steal your files. 2003-11-20 5:40 pm Not installing FAM is the fault of your distribution. I don’t see how any Gnome developer can force you to install something on your computer. Gnome works fine without FAM, but FAM enhances the experience. As for the various crashes… Did you report them in the right place or do you just rant about them on web boards? I have no problems running Gnome on a variety of hardware and OSes. As for menu editing: Open the menu you want to edit, then right-click. I don’t find it particularly intuitive, but the feature is there if you want it. Or you could choose a distribution which gives you a sane menu setup by default. Sometimes it is useful to look inwards instead of blaming other people. 2003-11-20 8:35 pm “The devel guys have considered the aspects of the OSX Fileselector and picked up the good, but also decided to leave out the bad things.” Yeah, right. Like they would know what the good things were… 2003-11-21 4:47 pm Looking at the screenshots of the “new” file choose for gnome 2.6 is like looking for a proposal that was made 10 years ago. Why dont they replace the outdated file chooser with a modern one? Whats the status of Seth Nickell’s Storage? http://www.gnome.org/~seth/storage/ Do we have to wait for Microsoft’s Longhorn’s WinFs for a modern system?