For the first time, Apple sold more iPods in a quarter than it did Macs–and Apple CEO Steve Jobs is happy about it, MacMinute reports. “We feel great,” Jobs told the New York Times. “We sold a lot of Macs, but we’ve sold more iPods in the quarter than all the Macs put together.“
iPods Outsell Macs for First Time; Jobs: ‘We Feel Great’
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The appropriate response from you should be “See? Apple will be nothing but a niche computer maker and soon not even that” etc. etc. Add more uninspired unsupported conclusions.
It’s great they are selling lots of iPods, and I think it really says something about them and what people think of them. But I don’t think this says much good about the macs. Your sub-product is now outselling your main product.
iPods are cheaper then a full mac, but depending on the model you can get a whole computer for the same price. (this is not a price flame war starter, just an observation, repeat this is not a price war flame starter). I would like to see the break down for how many of each model they sold. If apple had a model like a monitor less imac, or emac, that was like 800 bucks, that would be like 2 iPods. If they can get so many people to buy their iPods maybe if they had a computer for not much more it would catch the eye of all those iPod buyers and really boost sales and help apple get to 5% as they say they want to.
Apple has tapped out the iPod market to Mac owners. They are just selling them to PC users at this point, or to those with old or broken iPods. People clearly will buy apple stuff, they just have to hit the right market, the iPod has. Maybe they should think about other markets they arn’t hitting. Like the simple low expanibility low power basic mac. Not a 400 dollar model, just something 600-800 bucks with no monitor. Maybe they could offer it as a iPod option. Instead of having an iPod as an option with your mac, have a mac an option with your iPod
.
this article is the right one
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-5175002.html
>The Creative player weighs in 11.5 ounces– roughly
>three times as thick as an iPod and roughly twice as
>long to accommodate its TV-quality color screen. It
>has a USB port and comes with audio and video outputs
>cable of playing media on a TV or a stereo.
Anyone wanna take this gaint out?
well, i normaly think MS does a good job on stuff, their hardware prototypes are usualy interesting. But I just don’t see them coming up with something to compete with the iPod. I just picture something with to many features, something like a Nomad. Though on the flip side, with napster and other online music shops doing WMA there may be some market. The iPods appeal is in it’s simplicity and lack of features.
At any rate, this isn’t a thread for MS stuff, it’s about apple and this is off topic.
— “If apple had a model like a monitor less imac, or emac, that was like 800 bucks…”
They have an eMac WITH a monitor for 800 bucks. Why would they sell one without for the same price?
—“Maybe they should think about other markets they arn’t hitting. Like the simple low expanibility low power basic mac. Not a 400 dollar model, just something 600-800 bucks with no monitor.”
Erm… except for the fact that the monitor IS included, they are already at that price point.
iPod plays OGG Vorbis Audio files ?
>The iPods appeal is in it’s simplicity and lack of
>features.
iPod can:
1. Play music
2. Hold your contact
3. Hold your notes
4. Act as an external drive
5. Use as a voice recorder
6. Hold your digital photo and save your money on flash cards
7. Play games with you
I see no point that it is lack of features.
…
8. You can install OSX on it and boot from it on many macs
Many people arn’t aware you can boot from an iPod.
“I see no point that it is lack of features.”
I think the idea there is that it’s focus isn’t on shoving other features down your throat. Yes, it does all those things, but it’s main focus is on playing music. They don’t advertise it as doing anything else, those are just bonuses.
I think the most important thing is not lack of features (since it certainly doesn’t), or where the focus is, but in the interface. Apple managed to put a ton of features into the iPod and yet give it one of the most simple and powerful interfaces available for an mp3 player.
The main reason I won’t buy an emac is because it has a monitor. I would very seriously consider buying one for the current price if it didn’t have the monitor built in. I have a monitor, i like it. I also don’t want to be stuck with one monitor. Having to go from what I have to buying a huge lump of a computer because it has a monitor is not a plus. More features are not always a plus. People have their upgrade paths for monitors and computers on much differant time frames.
Is a small simple low feature mac that doesn’t cost over a grand to much to ask for. And iBook hooked up as a tower could work I suppose, but then is limited by laptop hardware.
That ‘s not surprising that the Ipod outsell macs. The Ipod is a “general” device, and the number of consumers for this device is much bigger than the consumers for macs because there is not the mac-pc rivalry any more when someone buys an Ipod.
The Ipod is a cheaper product, and buying a MP3 player is more easy that to buy a computer, that’s not the same story. Usually when people want to buy a computer, they often ask themself ” Should i buy a mac or a pc?”, but for a MP3 player they just wonder which one to buy, which is the best, look nice or whatever, without any consideration of the platform. That’s more easy to sell a MP3 player “for everyone” than to sell a platform. So again i don’t see where is the surprise here, it could not be that Apple would not be able to sell more Ipods than Macs.
Ipod is a great product, with a great success, and its a wonderful tool for apple in order to diversify their revenue and to be more popular. But in any case Apple is still a computer maker. I could read in some articles that Apple makes its revenue from its mucic activity, not any more from the sell of macs. Thats completely wrong to say that, the sell of macs still widely contributes to the good profits of Apple.
iPod, not Ipod.
A headless eMac is the only thing stoping Apple from selling more machines. The “All in one” may be good for schools, but not the buisness or personal market. They also need a cheap machine for the Asian Market. Apple should not be happy about this news at all. It means that the Mac marketing may need a rethink.
Perhaps that’s why it’s called the eMac (Education Macintosh) and was originally not only marketed towards education but exclusively available from Education customers.
I see this as meaning they are shifting their focus in the computer world. Have they given up? I doubt it. However they are pushing more on what they are good at selling and that is ipods. They could do the same if the pricing structure of the desktops matched their ipod strategy (a certain percentage over the competition). On the same note, I dont believe thats why Apple loses out on the desktop, quite simply put, their hardware increment timing stinks. Nearly a year now with no g5 updates, that looks like a dry spell to me.
Actually, Apple does not seem to position it towards education market that much now. Just read the main eMac page ( http://www.apple.com/emac/ ) – not a word on education, but a lot of joe shmoe oriented marketing. eMac also appears to be curiously rare on education pages – iMac and laptops show up there a lot more
.
I understand what you are telling me about the eMAC, but that is not what I was trying to communicate.
I was attempting to remind Apple (like they would listen to me), that they need a low cost version for the buisness/personal market with a price point below $800 , 512 MB RAM and without a monitor. Not just the bottom UFO thing from an iMAC, but a small expandable box with no monitor. I think many PC owners would give Apple a chance, if they did it just once in the history of the company’s existance. Not a cube, not a UFO thing, just an expandable box with no monitor with a decent price point!!
Apple, “Do you understand the words that are comming out of my mouth!”.
Carefull there, your on the borderline where people will start saying we are bitching about apples prices or asking for a dirt cheap 400 bucks computer. Which we are not. I just find it mind blowing Apple refuses to make the computer so many people want, the Mini Powermac. People will pay more for a good computer and OS, but when the option for that means going to the super high end of the spectrum where few people buy computers, well then it’s not an option.
There are tons of young people, like college students, that would be happy to ditch their gateway for a mac, but they allready have their monitor and such. They don’t have 1600 bucks or whatever a base powermac is. They also don’t want to look like a dork with an emac on their desk. Sell your old tower for a few hundred bucks, pitch a few hundred buck in and boom you got a mac.
apple. read my lips.
INTEGRATED DISPLAYS ON NON-LAPTOPS SUCK.
need a smallish tower for a base of $500 up to $900 with options.
How about a ITX based mac or something along the lines of Shuttle PCs, I’d get one of them.
How about a ITX based mac or something along the lines of Shuttle PCs, I’d get one of them.
The cube was one … but that didn’t fair too well on the market unfortunately
Shuttle PC’s are relatively cheap while the cube was ahead of its time and could only be had at a premium price
from “edmacman”, above, if not moderated down —
I don’t mind not being the best, most popular os on the block. keeps the trash like i mentioned above out of our country clubs and pool parties. white trash walmart punk
There really is something inherently wrong about the character of many Mac owners. They are elitist, sometimes racist, often full of hate, and often delusional.
All the original poster wanted was an affordable Mac. Why all the hate?
It is not just the Mac poplous, such a problem exists in the Linux and Windows populations as well. I remember confronting such, on the linux side, when I moved to Mac a few weeks ago. My point is, it exist on both sides. Wait for a Linux article to come up, watch Windows and Linux users flame each other… *sigh*
I’m not shocked the iPods have been selling so well. They are fantastic music players, although I can not justify spending money to buy one… I just wouldn’t use often enough.
I love Apple products, and that is all I use, but I have not bought a new Mac in 4 years because I don’t want an all-in -one, and I can’t afford a G5. I really wish Apple would release a desktop machine (not a mini-tower) with the following:
1.6GHz G5
1 – PCI Slot (Not PCI-X – Keeps cost down)
1 – AGP (4x) – ATI Radeon 9200 32MB
2 Memory Slots (1 256MB Default)
1 FireWire 800
1 FireWire 400
2 USB 2.0
10/100 Ethernet
I think that if apple offered this config for under $1000 a lot of people would buy them, I know I would. Because then I could use whatever monitor I wanted and be able to upgrade my video card and use other cards.
I also know that Apple could still design a model like this and make it look really good.
give it a rest.
That’s what product lines are for. Make some highend expensive ones for folks like you.
Make some inexpensive macs for folks like me.
p.s while you are ranting about how we are clamoring for “cheap”, you might know that I think the iMac looks stupid, and the eMac is a piece of rubbish with its CRT. CRTs ceased to exist in my house, but my needs are far less then the G5 towers.
yes! something like that would be great.
Any time there is any news about Apple there are invariably the “why doesn’t Apple build a system with [insert demand here]? I would buy one!” It is difficult for us as consumers to understand, but this isn’t in Apple’s business plan. Apple has made a concerted effort to limit its product line to serious desktop workhorses, entry level (ease of use) units, and excellent laptops (one rarely hears any complaints about Apple’s laptops, even while their desktops are frequently labeled as overpriced and underpowered).
Having many products dilutes the line. Times when they have expanded the product line they have paid for it (I own a cube, and it was really misunderstood [completely bloody silent], and so it did not sell). If you know your Apple history, this is exactly a problem they had in the 90s and it almost killed them (performas, quadras, PowerMacs, clones [yes, clones], etc.). One of Jobs’s main roles was to return the integrity of the brand. Like him or hate him, he did that. He axed a lot of, to my mind, really exciting things like OpenDoc, but he also churned out the first iMacs and without a doubt saved Apple’s bacon.
Moreover, it simply is not in keeping with Apple’s plan to produce many variants. At this point, they aren’t trying to sell to the “why doesn’t Apple build this system” crowd. They are a niche, almost luxury-type, market; any expansion into the mainstream market must be done carefully, if at all. Apple consistently makes a healthy profit (notice that even though they are cutting jobs they are pulling in profit hand over fist), so why would they bother trying to take on MS? Imagine if people said “why doesn’t Ferrari produce a 200 hp car without all the fancy bodywork? Or a Hummer jr. that only has two wheel drive? I’d buy it!” Sure you would, but would you really be buying a Ferrari or a Hummer? Those cars are experiences in themselves. Ferrari doesn’t drop engines in Honda bodies and sell them. As I always say to my Linux pals, you get excellent products from Apple, but you get what they want you to have and you will pay through the nose. Those two things are intrinsically linked. Apple’s logo should be a dollar sign and a middle finger.
Moreover, Apple seems to be moving more toward the home appliance market (like the iPod, and if you believe rumors, the iBox) with the Mac as a component. The desktop market as we know it now will most likely radically change in the coming years (home computers are what, 20, maybe 25, years old?). It may even change to the point that we don’t even make those sorts of distinctions anymore. It is possible Apple is trying to get a jump on the next wave rather than fighting a difficult battle for the current wave. If it bothers you that Apple doesn’t offer you a headless iMac or eMac, or a miniPowerMac, don’t buy their products. It’s strange that we always feel we know what a company should do and the products they should produce better than the company itself.
Apple’s Q2 numbers are good. Without the iPod, people would be predicting the death of Apple because the profits aren’t there. But I have to wonder if Apple is reaping short term profit without a long term vision. They need to get the G5 into the entire product line. The G4 is slow and old. Kicking ass with the iPod is great because it puts cash in the bank, but the company can’t forget that it makes computers too.
this is good. It shows a lot of things.
1) that apple can appeal to a wider audience (in general)
2) that apple pricing need not always be a barrier to sales
3) apple is growing is user base (even if it is just iPods)
4) the trojan horse (iPod) continues to gain penetration
5) new revenue streams
My perspective on apple is that they fundamentally need new revenue streams to relieve their dependence on sales of “pro machines” to a niche market. iPod achieves this. I hope to see other similar successes because new revenue streams are the only thing that will result in lower prices on G5s and hence more market share.
there is another side to this. Where does the ipod go? its basically a little computer. Where does it scale up to in the future? when do you plug our ipod into a screen and voila cheap computer?
There really is something inherently wrong about the character of many Mac owners. They are elitist, sometimes racist, often full of hate, and often delusional.
All the Mac users I know are either geeks, or artists. You will always have your extremists, please do not generalize as it only puts you in the category of a stereotyper. This, too, is a negative category.
—“Maybe they should think about other markets they arn’t hitting. Like the simple low expanibility low power basic mac. Not a 400 dollar model, just something 600-800 bucks with no monitor.”
Erm… except for the fact that the monitor IS included, they are already at that price point.
I think he means an expandable mac thats headless.
I agree. Give me a cheap tower thats ATX standard. Until then apple can get their high priced, throwaway computers out of my face.
“and the eMac is a piece of rubbish with its CRT. CRTs ceased to exist in my house”
That really depends on your needs. No self-respecting graphic artist would dare use LCD over CRT. CRTs are much brighter and sharper, and represent what you are looking at much better.
“Apple’s Q2 numbers are good. Without the iPod, people would be predicting the death of Apple because the profits aren’t there.”
Without the iPod, they would still be profiting, just not as much. If you seperate the computers and the iPods, each makes it’s own profit.
Now about this miniPowerMac. Do you guys really think Apple doesn’t know one of those would sell? It’s a no-brainer that it would, so long as they kept up quality (which was the problem with the Performas and such). It would tear into the market faster than just about anything has before. But that isn’t the point. They have never, under Jobs control, tried to make a computer for the mass market. They want the mass market to come to them instead. They want to make the computer that nobody asks for, and nobody knows they want until they try it. This thread is a great example, all these people want to use a Mac. Apple is trying to make one that they want to use enough to get them to pay that much for it. Something seen as worth that much. They don’t want to come to the market, they want the market to come to them. They aren’t trying to make a computer to meet the needs of people, they are trying to change what people’s needs are. They aren’t saying, here, make some spreadsheets on this, that’s what so many people are asking for…they are saying, hey, stop making speadsheets all the time, author some DVDs instead, what, you think it’s too hard, no no no, we make it easy and fun. The problem is that people don’t want to do that stuff because they don’t know what it’s like. They look at editing movies and authoring DVDs as something that’s a bit of a pain in the ass. Which on Windows it is. It really really is. They have no reason to want to do that stuff. Then they get a Mac and the simplicity of the applications becomes the reason to do that stuff. You go from thinking, this stuff is hard and useless, to thinking, wow, that’s really cool, what else can I do? You start thinking that it’s not about what the computer can do for me, but what can I do with the computer? The iPod has proven this to be effective. It’s re-energized music. You start by thinking, hey, what’s wrong with CDs? MP3s players are limited and overpriced and don’t work well, and are hard to use. Then you get an iPod, and it makes you rethink that. You start taking the iPod with you everywhere, you start plugging it into your car stereo. You start listening to more and more music, and different types of music. Not because the option wasn’t there before, but because someone made it simple and fun. This is where we come to the major flaw in what Apple is doing. They aren’t showing off their best asset…OS X. You don’t see commercials about it. You don’t see commercials of people using those iApps. The pros already know about their Pro line, but there are way way way too many misconceptions about Macs. I’ve been told a number of times that Mac can’t access the internet because MS owns it and they don’t like Apple, so ‘Mac-Windows’ isn’t as good as ‘real-Windows’. It’s really sad.
that’s all wonderful bender. but apple’s current strategy is not working.
anyway, who said their product line has to be totally varied/diluted, or simple.
no one, cept you.
emac and imac are redundant, if you add the powerbooks, you have another redundancy. that redundancy is 75% of their lineup has integrated display.
add to that fact that the powerbooks outsell their desktops, and the ipods outsell the powerbooks, if you can’t understand the fact that there’s something wrong with their current lineup, you have a serious problem with reality.
mac’s own loyalist are running out and buying the G5 PMs in groves.
the price is too high.
emacs are just losers all around. imacs are a rare taste.
powermacs are too expensive.
hence, their most popular computer, the powerbooks are it.
AND YOU DON’T SEE HUGE FAILINGS IN THEIR CURRENT LINE UP?
You have to be their current product line advisor, because it’s a huge failure, they aren’t picking up market share, in fact that shouldn’t even be their goal to GAIN.
the goal should be to STOP THE SLIDE. THEY ARE SLIDING. DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT.
stop the slide.
the ipod-mini isn’t going to accomplish that.
stop the slide.
it’s so simple, yet people like you will see apple dead and buried.
p.s. iPod so far, after selling MILLIONS is showing absolutely ZERO potential as a trojan horse (i.e. influencing people to buy a mac)
>>>That really depends on your needs. No self-respecting graphic artist would dare use LCD over CRT. CRTs are much brighter and sharper, and represent what you are looking at much better.
now that’s funny. and you would have me believe that the CRT included with the eMac is going to be a self-respecting-artist’s choice?
as far as your comment on LCDs are concerned, if an artist was to buy a highend G5 PM, what Apple display would you suggest?
that’s what i thought.
last point, your comment just supports my argument that non-integrated macs are more flexible, and useful. If you are an artist, you buy yourself a nice CRT with a hood if you like. If you a gamer who wants a high refresh rate, then you get a CRT. If you like light and space saving, you get a flat screen. WHATEVER…these are just examples.
My original point still stands.
“…But I have to wonder if Apple is reaping short term profit without a long term vision…”
They do have a long term vision. They are focused on digital lifestyle products. That boils down to mostly the iApps and other multimedia oriented products such as Final Cut. They interested in driving audio and video editing tools. That is their long term vision and thus far it has paid off. The iPod is just one small, all beit visible, part of their plans.
“now that’s funny. and you would have me believe that the CRT included with the eMac is going to be a self-respecting-artist’s choice?
as far as your comment on LCDs are concerned, if an artist was to buy a highend G5 PM, what Apple display would you suggest?
that’s what i thought.”
Actually I wouldn’t suggest an Apple display. I would suggest a high end CRT, and all the graphic artists I work with use them. My point wasn’t about the eMac at all, it was about CRTs. I’m not a graphic artist, and I don’t use a CRT. And I agree, towers are more flexible. I didn’t argue agaisnt that anywhere.
Anonymous (IP: —.satx.rr.com), marketshare isn’t the issue. If they wanted marketshare all they would have to do is put all their hardware resources into making OS X work flawlessly on Intel. That’s it. You know if OS X was available for any ol’ hardware that it would fly off the shelves and Microsoft would be crapping themselves. It’s rather obvious that’s not what they are going for.
if this summer, the new G5s from IBM run up to 3 GHz, then I can certainly see Apple having the eMac and iMac lines upgraded to 1.4 – 2.0 GHz G5s since there is plenty of room with the 2.0 – 3.0 G5 for the power mac lines.
But perhaps the eMac should be considered an education Mac, and then dump the iMac and just have low powered powermacs and high powered powermacs.
then you have one product line to design for.
and even on the low end, if you replace the eMac for consumers with a small G5 tower that is prices 800 bucks and up, but do not stop letting people buy the eMac, then you get those that need a monitor with the G5 eMac, those that don’t with the G5 mini tower and those that want more power get a 1.6 -2.0 GHz powermac with either a CD-RW or a SuperDrive, and then you finally have the top end pro line.
I think that would stream line apples product offerings while not leaving anyone behind.
in the same token, I think apple needs to look at the future and see that it does not lie with desktops, but with portables and home server systems with satellite peripherals that play streaming music, movies, and other things.
Apple needs to make the transition from where they are now to something more like Dell. They’re more like Sega at the Dreamcast stage – good products, but it just can’t keep moving against the flow any more.
There is no doubt in my mind that Apple employs a great number of talented engineers and programmers, and apparently a great number of them actually understand proper HCI design. Excellent.
The fact remains, though, that they are a fish swimming against the current. The general computing populace long ago decided on IA32 as the ISA of choice. Say what you will about this, but it’s the reality of the situation.
Apple needs to start understanding just why the iMac was so popular. Was it because of MacOS 9? No, no way. Was it because of the speed? No, not at all. What made the iMac so popular was that it had _style_. It looked nice. You could keep it out, and it wouldn’t uglify the room.
The trend continues. What made the iPod so popular? Was it AAC? Nah. Was it the huge hard drive? A bit. Was it because it _looked good_? You bet.
There’s no reason Apple can’t do the same kind of engineering with PCs. Slap in some of their proprietary apps like iDVD and, really, it could be a far more potent contender than the same old same old coming from Dell and company.
What the business statement shows is essentially that iPods aren’t selling more Macs. Relying on a single piece of consumer electronics as your entire lifeline for a company the size of Apple is a _very_ dangerous place to be.
-Erwos
Duke: “The appropriate response from you should be “See? Apple will be nothing but a niche computer maker and soon not even that” etc. etc. Add more uninspired unsupported conclusions.”
You fed the trolls and now the thread is continue with the assumption that Apple’s Mac sales did poorly. Apple’s computer sales INCREASED if anyone cares to talk about that.
It might have helped if the OS News headline implied something other than Apple is only doing well in iPod sales. It’s not that their hardware sales are doing bad… but that the iPod sales are doing FABULOUS.
A headless mac would not destroy their product line. Like others have said it’s clear there is a massive hole in Apples line there. To say apple isn’t interested in hitting a huge market sector is crazy. Only some of the more crazed mac owners who want to see apple remain a small segment that few own can belive this. Apple has stated they want to get to 5%. As they currently stand that is not going to happen. They do not need to build a cheaper then cheap box. It doesn’t not need to be atx standard or anything. Just a simple basic computer with no monitor. At this point i don’t want to see apple going to stuff like x86 or just selling an OS like MS, that would be suicide. The flat out issue is they don’t have a computer that fits what most want. They would make a ton of money of the miniPowermac. It really wouldn’t hurt powermac or imac sales. Those who want the slick imac will still buy the imac. Those who want a power mac will still buy them. They will loose some powermac sales, the ones that were people spending way to much on one then they could really afford. The fact is the people buying the miniPowermac would be those who were not going to buy a mac because the others were not viable.
I think it’s clear that in the future all Powermacs will be duals, I would think they will drop the single cpu power mac, and go to dual powermacs across the line with 2.0, 2.2, and 2.4 ghz models. It doesn’t look like they will make 3.0ghz by august. The imac will clearly become a single G5 soon, probable a 1.6 and 1.8 ghz models. Then below that you have the monitor less model, that is 1.6ghz G5, or even the G4 still, but I belive the G5 cost them less to make, so it might be silly to launch a new G4 model at this point. None of this hurts their line up. If they were worried about hurting line ups they wouldn’t have both Powerbook and iBook 12 inchers.
No one is asking for a super cheap computer here, the market for 700-1000 dollar towers is huge. Apple needs a entry level computer to get people drawn in. Those who will move to macs are young people, the entry level bar for a mac is at an isane level.
On a differant note, the Cube was a much differant story. Its failure was purely apples. It was basicly what people were looking for. But apple screwed up. The priced what should have been the miniPowermac, a lesser model to the powermac and a entry level computer, as the super high end model. It was a low end model. Thats why it failed. You don’t sell the lesser model at a premium price. They could have simplified the design to, fanless and cube shaped were nice for pure estetics, but there is only so many people that is the primary factor for. If apple had priced it well below the powermacs as it should have been it would have been a massive success. People understand value, and it tanked when it came to that.
On a differant note, if the emac is for educational market, which it originaly was, why am I in a university computer lab on a 17inch iMac? seams like they would have gone with the emac, but yet there are none on this campus. If it can’t sell to its target market how is it going to sell to consumer level?
“But I don’t think this says much good about the macs.”
How ever so? Apple’s Mac sales INCREASED.
“Your sub-product is now outselling your main product.”
Apple’s Macintosh sales are much more profitable for Apple than iPod sales..
“iPods are cheaper then a full mac, but depending on the model you can get a whole computer for the same price. (this is not a price flame war starter, just an observation, repeat this is not a price war flame starter).”
You can buy a whole computer for that price… but its a cheapo, no frills computer. Remember, PCs allow you to buy less and pay less. That does not make them less expensive… but rather… more CONFIGURABLE.
“I would like to see the break down for how many of each model they sold. If apple had a model like a monitor less imac, or emac, that was like 800 bucks, that would be like 2 iPods. If they can get so many people to buy their iPods maybe if they had a computer for not much more it would catch the eye of all those iPod buyers and really boost sales
Apple sells a computer that is less than $800 and it its a relitively hot seller.
“and help apple get to 5% as they say they want to.”
Apple already has more than 5% of the market. Remember, “market share” is not the same thing as install base.
“Apple has tapped out the iPod market to Mac owners.”
Hardly. Mac users make up 30% of all iPod sales.
“They are just selling them to PC users at this point”
Nope.
“Maybe they should think about other markets they arn’t hitting. Like the simple low expanibility low power basic mac.”
Apple sells such a computer already. Its called an eMac.
“Not a 400 dollar model, just something 600-800 bucks with no monitor.
Again… Apple sells such a computer… AND it comes with a monitor.
“A headless eMac is the only thing stoping Apple from selling more machines.”
I disagree. Its not a headless eMac… its a misguided perception that Apple’s computers are “expensive” because they’re not configure… and also that Apple’s install base is small because its market sahre is.
“The “All in one” may be good for schools, but not the buisness or personal market.”
Sure it is. Its good for all of the above.
“They also need a cheap machine for the Asian Market.
Apple’s got such a machine… its called an eMac and an iBook
“Apple should not be happy about this news at all.”
Agreed. They should be thrilled.
[i]”It means that the Mac marketing may need a rethink.”,/i>
Apple’s marketing needs a re-think because their computer sales and iPod sales are up?
I hope MS finally kills off Apple. Longhorn will be a far superior OS and in conjuction with cheap, high performing commidity h/w, will no doubt deliver the final crippling blow to Apple.
Go MS, show Apple whos boss!!!
“I see this as meaning they are shifting their focus in the computer world.”
I don’t. Nor would any other reasonable person. Apple’s Mac sales are Huge… bigger than iPod sales as a matter of fact. Just because they add on a new hot product… doesn’t mean that they have to give up on their other sucessful products.
“Have they given up? I doubt it.”
Why would you think that Apple would give up? Microsoft retail sales of its operating systems aren’t as large as Apple’s. Should they give up… or is their any reason to think that they should give up?
“However they are pushing more on what they are good at selling and that is ipods.
They are pushing iPods AND Macs. They’re good at selling both.
“They could do the same if the pricing structure of the desktops matched their ipod strategy (a certain percentage over the competition).”
The pricing structure on the desktop machines is already in line with the industry. Nothing needs to change there.
“I hope MS finally kills off Apple. Longhorn will be a far superior OS and in conjuction with cheap, high performing commidity h/w, will no doubt deliver the final crippling blow to Apple.
Go MS, show Apple whos boss!!!”
o.0 You do realize that MS is barely getting longhorn right, if at all.
Are you here to start another senseless war?
“I was attempting to remind Apple (like they would listen to me), that they need a low cost version for the buisness/personal market with a price point below $800”
Number one, Apple’s eMac is $799. Numnber two, the average computer for business costs $800-$1000. Apple’s pricing is right on the money for the eMac.
“I think many PC owners would give Apple a chance, if they did it just once in the history of the company’s existance. Not a cube, not a UFO thing, just an expandable box with no monitor with a decent price point!! “
Apple has sold (and continues to sell these… they’re called Apple towers.
“I just find it mind blowing Apple refuses to make the computer so many people want, the Mini Powermac. People will pay more for a good computer and OS, but when the option for that means going to the super high end of the spectrum where few people buy computers, well then it’s not an option.”
Huh? Apple sells G4 towers still for $1,200
“There are tons of young people, like college students, that would be happy to ditch their gateway for a mac, but they allready have their monitor and such.”
Then buy a G4 tower.
“They don’t have 1600 bucks or whatever a base powermac is.”
That’s not the price of a base PowerMac
“They also don’t want to look like a dork with an emac on their desk”
An eMac is cool. Nobody would look like a dork with an eMac on their desk.
I wouldn’t normally respond, but we’re both in Satx, so you might be sitting in the cube behind me.
I think your statements reveal the difference of paradigm here. You point to Apple’s sliding market share (which is undeniable), admit that Apple is selling millions of iPods, and then claim people like me “will see apple [sic] dead and buried.” This is inconsistent: how can a company that is doing very well by your own admission be simultaneously failing? Apple is consistently profitable. They are in absolutely no danger of being “buried” by me. Market share has nothing to do with being profitable.
I’m not exactly certain what you meant by the statements: “mac’s own loyalist are running out and buying the G5 PMs in groves [sic]. the price is too high.” If they are selling in droves. Why do you feel the price is too high? Do you mean the price is too high for you? You’re perfectly free to have your opinion, but your lack of purchase isn’t hurting Apple at all. The same claim could be made of many automobiles. I feel many cars are way out of my price range, but I don’t demand that they change they products to suit me. I simply purchase a different car.
I think what you are trying to communicate is that it is possible that the Mac could lose so much market share that it will become irrelevant. This is possible, but highly unlikely. The Mac only has a sliver of the market share now, and yet it dominates both headlines and innovation. People, even “experts,” have claimed that the Macintosh line is flawed for decades. Nevertheless, the Mac continues to flourish. Apple is not, I repeat, not, failing.
I certainly agree with you that I wish there were some other options in the Mac line. I would like to have something like the iMac but without the integrated screen. But instead of complaining, I have written polite emails to Apple. If they respond accordingly, great. If not, maybe I will save up for a G5 tower, maybe I will purchase an older G4 on eBay, or maybe I will buy some cheap x86 hardware and try to shift completely to Linux (or more likely, unfortunately, a Linux/Windows combo). Remember, no one is forcing you to buy a Mac.
>>“Yup Apple is already feeling the pressure and has started the layoffs.
>Apple would not say how many workers are affected by the closure, but the company had told local government officials it planned to cut 235 jobs, according to The Sacramento Bee.”
Apple didn’t lay off anyone… at least not like you or ZD Net is implying. They just redirected jobs to a new part of the country.
o.0 You do realize that MS is barely getting longhorn right, if at all.
Are you here to start another senseless war?
Hardly, MS is actually serious about buisness(unlike Apple). MS realises the importance of delivering this masterpeice at an approaite time.This very logically since PC users have high epectations for their computer needs.
I am very sure that the quality of Longhorn will be none the less specatular.
That really depends on your needs. No self-respecting graphic artist would dare use LCD over CRT. CRTs are much brighter and sharper, and represent what you are looking at much better.
Umm. No. CRTs are not brighter nor sharper. In fact, all the LCDs I’ve used are both brighter and sharper than any of many (high quality trinitron) CRTs I’ve used.
The only thing CRTs have over LCDs is contrast and possibly colour. And even then, you’d have to be a serious photography to notice. Some people also claim that refresh is better on CRTs. It is, but you have to be a really picky gamer or person for this to outweigh the many benifits of LCDs.
Benifites are, they are brighter, sharper, have virtually no flicker, take up drasticly less space and produce much less heat, and subpixel anti-aliasing is just AWSOME for text.
CRTs are all but dead, honestly. A few really picky photographers might have a legite reason for wanting a CRT, but that’s what, 0.0001% of the market?
I DO sit in the cube down the hall from you, Bender
EDITORS 4 LIFE!
Anonymous, do you honestly believe that Apple, a successful company despite your claims, doesn’t know how to manage its product line? You claim, “It’s so simple,” but is it? Did you have a Mac in the dark days of the 90s when they did try mass-market sales, and got trounced by cheap wintel manufacturers? Have you built a successful technology company? Do you feel that Apple executives will read your anonymous comment, slap their foreheads, and shout “OF COURSE!” while frantically trying to stop the assembly line? Apple is not in the business of selling to the mass-market. Apple sells to specialty niches. WHY DO YOU THINK THEIR SLOGAN IS “THINK DIFFERENT”? WOULD THAT MAKE ANY SENSE IF THEY SOLD TO THE MASS-MARKET? THINK SAME? Even if they did release the machines that people have mentioned on this board, all that would happen is they would get a few more sales and the OSNEWS forums would be filled with anonymous entries saying “YOU CAN STIL BY ATHELON 4 CHEAP. MAC SUX” and “They REALLY need to build a machine with THESE parts.” Macs are not in competition with x86 machines; they can not go toe to toe on the desktop with the wintel juggernaut (although notice that in other areas, like the portable music and online music sales markets, they are the unquestioned leaders). Apple has recognized this, you have not. Apple sells niche solutions for niche users. Apple has conceded the current desktop world to Microsoft. They are looking toward a “digital life” future, not the desktop market of the present. REMEMBER WHEN THE APPLE II LINE WAS OUT? EVERYONE IN THE WORLD HAD ONE. MARKETS CHANGE. Apple does not owe you the machine you want. They do not owe you anything. If their machines are too expensive for you, don’t buy one. It is as simple as that. If you feel that there are gaps in their product line, take Darwin (or another OSS core), build a better product around it, sell it, and perhaps you will be too busy to fire off anonymous complaints.
Should be pointed out to that CPU sales were up to over last years this time. It’s not just the cool iPod that are moving.
“The only thing CRTs have over LCDs is contrast and possibly colour”
Those are two of the most important things to a photographer. I’ve tried LCDs but can’t use them because of their lack of color accuacy and their ever shifting density and contrast.
CRTs are alive and well in graphic arts. They offer 3 things LCDs can not produce, accurate color, accurate contrast and accurate density. Just go and try to calibrate a workgroup full of LCDs and let me know how it goes.
“I hope MS finally kills off Apple. Longhorn will be a far superior OS and in conjuction with cheap, high performing commidity h/w, will no doubt deliver the final crippling blow to Apple.”
MS is only seeing single digit numbers in overall growth. If you don’t believe,,,,read the news story posted on OSnews.com a few days ago.
LONGHORN=Long-wait…..period!!
Apple and MS are entirely different companies. MS tried killing off competitors/developers and are now suffering for it’s monopoly practices.
Look, no one said Apple doesn’t want a bigger market, or that they shouldn’t get one, I’m just saying they are not going to turn into Dell to get it. They aren’t trying to get it by doing that, if they were all they would need to do is release OS X for Intel, but they haven’t done that, and aren’t moving that way. They want the market, but they want it to come to them instead of the other way around.
And for Longhorn…get real. It’s years off, and still hasn’t shown anything that isn’t possible today. Do you think Apple and the Linux developers are going to sit around and wait? No. They will continue to develop, improve, and release products, while the Windows crowd sits around playing games on XP.
I agree Linux and OS X are out-passing Microsoft.
Cheers to Apple for another great quarter!
MS is only seeing single digit numbers in overall growth. If you don’t believe,,,,read the news story posted on OSnews.com a few days ago.
Magic word is growth. MS is growing,Apple is shrivelling
LONGHORN=Long-wait…..period!!
Quality takes time. Unlike Apple who will just rush out a crap product( MACOSX 10.0!). MS needs time to assure their products are of suffient quality to be relased.
Apple and MS are entirely different companies.
True. MS is successful, Apple is not.
@PantherPPC
And for Longhorn…get real. It’s years off, and still hasn’t shown anything that isn’t possible today.
And what grand invoation has Apple brought us. The 1 button mouse?
Do you think Apple and the Linux developers are going to sit around and wait?
Do you think MS entire fleet of employees are in some back corner smoking pot? Sorry to burst your bubble but their getting shit done boy
They will continue to develop, improve, and release products
As will MS, far superior products.
while the Windows crowd sits around playing games on XP.
Atleast they HAVE games. :p
“Quality takes time. Unlike Applewho will just rush out a crap product( MACOSX 10.0!). MS needs time to assure their products are of suffient quality to be relased.”
Did you ever use XP when it first came out? They wanted you to pay extra just to play DVDs!
“Apple and MS are entirely different companies.
True. MS is successful, Apple is not”
Perhaps you should look at Apple’s Quarterly Earning report, I believe it drastically disagrees with you.
“Do you think MS entire fleet of employees are in some back corner smoking pot? Sorry to burst your bubble but their getting shit done boy ”
Oh yeah? What exactly? DRM, vendor lock-in and litigation?
“while the Windows crowd sits around playing games on XP.
Atleast they HAVE games. :p”
Perhaps you like having a fully configurable game machine, that’s all good. Windoze is good for that purpose. For serious work though like software dev, web dev, graphic arts (2d/3d) and scientific calcs the real work is being done with the ‘nix boxes. Linux and BSD/MacOS X are for people who have real jobs with real deadlines, they need to get their work done. No time for games we’ve got bills to pay.
//although notice that in other areas, like the portable music and online music sales markets, they are the unquestioned leaders)//
Tell me about it. iTunes for Windows was the *perfect* invention to seperate me from my money.
I’m a Windows nut, but boy, do I appreciate Apple. Their computers are way cool, and I wish I had the bling-bling to buy one.
Too bad I love computer games so darn much.
Peace.
Did you ever use XP when it first came out? They wanted you to pay extra just to play DVDs!
Link? I migrated from Win2k to WinXP in the beginning of 2003.
Perhaps you should look at Apple’s Quarterly Earning report, I believe it drastically disagrees with you.
Bah its laughable. Apple continues to loose marketshare to Wintel. Their earnings are just being brought up by the iPOD sales. Even that wont save Apple once MS launches their own player and s/w bundle this summer.
Oh yeah? What exactly? DRM, vendor lock-in and litigation?
Oh yes DRM. Well if people wouldnt pirate s/w,music,etc with such incrediable lack of restraint MS would not have to implement it. MS is doing the world a favor but enforcing the notation that STEALING IS WRONG.
Vendor lock-in eh? Im sorry but can you tell me where I can find PPC h/w not made by Apple that will run MACOSX? Many companies use vendor lock-in in one form or another.
Regarding litigation, im not a lawyer. I have no clue.
For serious work though like software dev, web dev, graphic arts (2d/3d) and scientific calcs the real work is being done with the ‘nix boxes.
I agree in part. These jobs are being done using traditional unix OSes(solaris,HP-UX,etc) and linux, but not MACOSX.
Linux and BSD/MacOS X are for people who have real jobs with real deadlines, they need to get their work done
OH SO 90% OF THE WORLD’S POPULATION ISNT DOING THEIR JOB??? You *nix trolls are a joke.
No time for games we’ve got bills to pay.
Proably because you spent too much money on your MAC
“OH SO 90% OF THE WORLD’S POPULATION ISNT DOING THEIR JOB??? You *nix trolls are a joke.”
Carefull. The other 10% is what enables that 90% to do their jobs. Bank software, databases, telecomunications? Welcome to un*x, my friend. Don’t ridicule the grunts who keep things moving. Did we learn nothing from Beyond Thunderdome?
“Bah its laughable. Apple continues to loose marketshare to Wintel. Their earnings are just being brought up by the iPOD sales. Even that wont save Apple once MS launches their own player and s/w bundle this summer.”
Take out the iPod and notice how they would still be profitable and debt free.
MS’s upcoming player will flop just at the Tablet PC did.
“Oh yes DRM. Well if people wouldnt pirate s/w,music,etc with such incrediable lack of restraint MS would not have to implement it. MS is doing the world a favor but enforcing the notation that STEALING IS WRONG.”
DRM is going to cause massive problems with legal document sharing, and allow MS to take personal info off people computers. It’s going to limit you from using your own legally bought material. Read up on it.
“Vendor lock-in eh? Im sorry but can you tell me where I can find PPC h/w not made by Apple that will run MACOSX? Many companies use vendor lock-in in one form or another.”
That’s Apple locking themselves in, they are in no way keeping software developers from producing OS X software, or from 3rd party hardware developers from making Mac-compatible products. Do you even know what vendor lock-in is?
“I agree in part. These jobs are being done using traditional unix OSes(solaris,HP-UX,etc) and linux, but not MACOSX.”
How do you figure that?
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/03/31/bioitworld/index.php…
Ever been to a multimedia house?
“OH SO 90% OF THE WORLD’S POPULATION ISNT DOING THEIR JOB??? You *nix trolls are a joke.”
90% of the world does nothing more than office work. A hacked Playstation could handle that.
So you, as a non-Mac user, don’t have bills to pay? If not you probably still live at home. STOP TROLLING.
Let’s stop with the OS arguments and move on. They don’t make sense anyway. It’s just like other pointless polarities:
NES rules! Master System sucks!
Now Genesis rules! SNES sucks!
Coke rules! Pepsi sucks!
None of these statements make any sense. Apple has some really cool tech, Linux has some really cool tech, and even though it’s popular to bash MS, they have some really cool stuff, too. You can appreciate something without disparaging the alternatives. You just have to use the right tool for the right job. Just because you drive in nails all day, that doesn’t mean screwdrivers suck.
Apple’s had their 3 consecutive double digit growth quarter. MS is in the single digits, again.
When your price gouging as badly as Apple, I wouldnt be suprised you’d make more profit.
MS has yet to release a quality product…even though everything they do is late.
NT 5.0 and greater are excellent. I much prefer a product to be late then it being a peice of crap.
Notice the security issues as a great example of poor quality.
Poor quality?No. User base that dosent have a clue?Yes. Im sorry if Grandma dosent pay attention to the update notification but its not MS fault.
Mac sales continually growing
Care to back it up?
4.whatever billion dollars in the bank
And yet they still cant pump out a sub $800 machine. Proably because they have such huge profit:price ratio and wouldnt want to loose it.
They are one of the top 10 patent holding companies in the world.
A patent is just a peice of paper to me. Hey look im Apple, I have a patent for a hyper dimensional wave modulator. If dosent mean shit.
They aren’t getting things done, they are buying things other people have done…
Exactly MS has no fear of acknowleging a superior product. By purchasing differnet companie’s products and intergrating them into windows, it gives the users an even better computer experince.
and overcharging for them.
THIS COMING FROM A MAC USER!!!! HAHAHAHAH
Such as? I have yet to see a MS product that isn’t full of holes.
Windows2003. Fast and stable. Unlike crappy old MACOSX.
STOP TROLLING.
Ill stop after im done having sex with your mom.
“When your price gouging as badly as Apple, I wouldnt be suprised you’d make more profit.”
Changing your story now, eh?
“NT 5.0 and greater are excellent. I much prefer a product to be late then it being a peice of crap.”
That must explain all the viruses.
“Poor quality?No. User base that dosent have a clue?Yes. Im sorry if Grandma dosent pay attention to the update notification but its not MS fault.”
She shouldn’t have to pay attention. It should work from the start, which it doesn’t.
“Care to back it up?”
If you read the report this thread is about you’d see.
“And yet they still cant pump out a sub $800 machine. Proably because they have such huge profit:price ratio and wouldnt want to loose it.”
Or because they don’t want to sell those. They thankfully aren’t Dell.
“A patent is just a peice of paper to me. Hey look im Apple, I have a patent for a hyper dimensional wave modulator. If dosent mean shit”
That wasn’t even good trolling. Lots of things made of paper represent something…maybe you don’t like money either?
“Exactly MS has no fear of acknowleging a superior product. By purchasing differnet companie’s products and intergrating them into windows, it gives the users an even better computer experince.”
It would give the user a better experience if they didn’t ruin the product before sticking it into Windows so tight that the user can’t choose a better alternative.
“THIS COMING FROM A MAC USER!!!! HAHAHAHAH”
So you think a $500 office suite is a fair price?
“Windows2003. Fast and stable. Unlike crappy old MACOSX”
And I assume you think OS X crashes constantly and is so slow it’s unusable. Ever tried it?
“Ill stop after im done having sex with your mom.”
I doubt my mom goes for little kids. You aren’t even good at trolling. Go back to playing Counter Strike. Rot some more brain cells.
“Just shows how innovative MS is. The Tablet PC was a brand new market and MS jumped in. Its failure was due to the poor marketing by the manufactoers.”
That tablet PC sucked and had no real use, that’s why it failed.
“What does apple do? Oh lets JUST MAKE ANOTHER MP3 player.”
Yeah, now you say iPods suck. Lol.
“You dont know this. Just more FUD”
It happens every time it’s tried. Why do you think so many people hate MS Activation the way it is now?
“Um do you know how many compaies do this? I wouldnt mind since I have nothing to hide. IM NOT A CRIMINAL LIKE YOU”
Do you know how many times MS has been caught and found guilty of doing this? It’s illegal. I’m not a criminal, but I do like my privacy, and I don’t like info from my emails being sold to marketers (why do you think Hotmail was in hot water?).
“Yup into their little 1.8% niche. No wonder Adobe is STARTING to pull its products out.”
Adobe pulled the products that Mac users weren’t buying. They still make more than half their money from Mac software. Go check their numbers.
STOP TROLLING!!!
Mr. Balmer, please go back to work and STOP TROLLING!
Though I am not caring about mac (OSX), I have to say the Mac box is not a kind of Ferrari in the personal computers.
We can divide a personal computer into at least three parts: hardware, OS/software, and designation.
1. In each line of Mac from ’88 when I began to use mac, Apple hasn’t offerred the combination of the best hardware including CPU. The Macintosh II offered a tiny BW CRT and at the same times, a EGA color CRT was together with a 386 box.
2. If the time can go back to when win98SE released, I can say the MacOS is the most perfect OS for a beginner. However, the OSX is just a duplication of *nix, and so it lost the right to being a best OS (maybe you can say it’s the best in *nix).
3. So far, I still think Mac’s designing is a plus for Apple Inc. However, in each time point, you can find a more perfect designaiton from one of the x86 box manufacturers such as IBM and Sony.
In the computer world, Apple is just selling an outdated concept that was advanced about ten years ago.
Ummm… the Macintosh || was actually the first macintosh that didn’t have a built-in 9″ screen… actaully you could attach a colour monitor to it.
This was the big thing… the first colour macintosh.
Also, if I recall… the graphics on my old 128k->512k->Plus macintosh… had much nicer resolution and graphics… I actually though colour was useless (at the time 😉
(I know, he’s a troll, but it’s an argument even well-meaning people happen to make)
MS to take personal info off people computers
Um do you know how many compaies do this? I wouldnt mind since I have nothing to hide. IM NOT A CRIMINAL LIKE YOU
Really? What is your real name? Your address? Your phone number? Your income? Your girlfriends name? How often did you do it this month? What is your bank account number? Your PIN?
Come on – tell us! After all, you have nothing to hide – or do you?
“”I just find it mind blowing Apple refuses to make the computer so many people want, the Mini Powermac. People will pay more for a good computer and OS, but when the option for that means going to the super high end of the spectrum where few people buy computers, well then it’s not an option.”
Huh? Apple sells G4 towers still for $1,200
“There are tons of young people, like college students, that would be happy to ditch their gateway for a mac, but they allready have their monitor and such.”
Then buy a G4 tower.
“They don’t have 1600 bucks or whatever a base powermac is.”
That’s not the price of a base PowerMac
“They also don’t want to look like a dork with an emac on their desk”
An eMac is cool. Nobody would look like a dork with an eMac on their desk.”
Hello G4 powermacs are not current products, they are just selling the remaining ones. You can’t base a statement on what you can buy on something that is not a current product.
So saying by a G4 powermac is not an answer, also 1200 bucks is getting steep again in price.
And yes I was wrong, the base Powermac is 1800 bucks, not 1600 bucks, sorry. Though with educational discount it may be 1600.Also I said “whatever the price is” so I did not state it as a 100 percent fact.
eMacs are cool?!? what planet are you from? They are by far the dumbest looking model they have come out with, the original iMacs looked better.This is personal opinion but i think you would be hard pressed to find a large percentage of people who think they look very cool (love to be proved wrong there).
This is like the person a week or so ago who said macs are cheap and he got a great deal on a G3 ibook, yeah, it was new, only been discontinued for a long time.
Oh and those G4 powermacs start at 1300, not 1200. For a single CPU model. The base one is 500 dollars more to loose the monitor over the eMac with roughly the same specs, but gain some expandibility. questionable if thats worth the extra 500 bucks.
Having another busy day in here, eh? lol
Can anyone get the news staight? CPU sales are up and iPods, and revenues, read the quarterly report!
That tablet PC sucked and had no real use, that’s why it failed.
But thats what I said
Yeah, now you say iPods suck. Lol.
I dont think the iPODS suck, im saying that MS took new direction while Apple just followed the herd.
Maybe Apple should actaully follow their own slogan “Think Differnet”
It happens every time it’s tried. Why do you think so many people hate MS Activation the way it is now?
Because they cant use pirated copies of windows. DUH!
Do you know how many times MS has been caught and found guilty of doing this? It’s illegal.
MS is still here stronger than ever. If there were any wrong doing the US govt would have pressed legal actions against MS.
They still make more than half their money from Mac software. Go check their numbers.
What numbers? Wheres the numbers? I want to see the numbers.
STOP TROLLING!!!
STOP SPREADING FUD
Amen brother I was just thinking the same thing.
A few things:
I know it’s personal taste but I can’t imagine how anyone could call OSX’s interface “playschool”. Much better IMHO then anything else out there (looks wise).
Slow? Hardly, my 933 G4 is more than adequate when dealing with all the “eye candy”.
Calling Apple unsucessful is obsurd! They have been profitable for years now while other computer companies have been in the red. Granted they might not be as profitable as Dell but they get by. Ask Dell how many mp3 players they have sold so far, not nearly as many as Apple I can guarantee you that.
Apple has a lot of things they could do to improve their situation. I agree selling a headless Mac for $499 would be a great idea. As they move towards a major G5 upgrade I think you will find there sales of computers will keep going upward.
OSX is getting better and better, Apple stock is at a 4 year high and as an owner of their stock I would recommend you to buy some, I have already doubled my money in just under two years.
THANK YOU APPLE!
a sweet machine,absolutley kicks ass running photoshop, final cut and after effects.
I’m gonna sell my new g5, due to sag of the valley.
Thanks man, now my heads straight.
I thought I could get some work out of this thing, but you’ve scared me straight.
e is for education
Rules of Owning a Macintosh, #17:
Whenever someone presents the Macintosh owner with facts that diminish the eternal glory of Macintosh Ownership, the Mac owner should respond with insults and mockery.
This sort of response will prevent any sort of discussion from taking place. A lack of rational communication is important as objective discussions concerning the Macintosh have been shown in the past to be disturbing to Macintosh Owners. Like the poor people that own lesser brands of computing equipment, they are better off avoided.
I am happy to see that iPod is doing well! (yeah thats just as helpful as ~70% of the posts in this forum.)
I am dissapointed that mac based news is always accompanied by off topic discussions. It gets boring reading posts written by some of these dorks. I hear the same things over and over again… complaints about the prices of Apple products, whether an emac is astetically pleasing, how OS X is too slow or distracting, or regarding the quality of the hardware compared to X86’s. I suppose that I should just read the article and forget about the public discussion. Lets give it a rest for once.
Perhaps we should fight about it! On this side of the street us… and the other whoever want to face us… armed with a plastic forks and fruit ambrosia.
*whoever wants to face us…* -doh!
“But thats what I said’
That’s not at all what you said.
“I dont think the iPODS suck, im saying that MS took new direction while Apple just followed the herd.”
Maybe Apple should actaully follow their own slogan “Think Differnet” ”
First off, it’s not their slogan anymore. How is MS taking new directions by buying already existing software? And how is Apple following the heard? I thought the ‘problem’ was that they weren’t following the herd and making a headless iMac.
“Because they cant use pirated copies of windows. DUH!”
No, because it’s a senseless way to fix a symptom and not a problem. They hate it because when someone steals their number they get blacklisted and can’t run software they paid for. They can’t even transfer lisences without calling MS.
“MS is still here stronger than ever. If there were any wrong doing the US govt would have pressed legal actions against MS. ”
They did press legal actions, MS was found guilty, and paid a ton of money over it…more than once.
“What numbers? Wheres the numbers? I want to see the numbers.”
Their sales numbers, they are released every quarter.
“STOP SPREADING FUD”
Take your own advise.
“However, for the run of the mill Mac, there simply is nothing worth running on these machines. A bunch of iApps is simply not compelling. And the high-end pro-video and pro-audio apps simply don’t run well on most of Apple’s computers.”
I run FCP and Studio Pro on an older PowerBook and they run just fine. Not as well as on the dual G5 at work, but I only notice the difference when rendering.
“Currently the OS X market share is about 0.5%, projected to fall to about 0.4% by the end of calendar 2004. Running a simple projection shows that Apple is losing about 20% of their market share every year. So by the time Longhorn ships (say 2007), Mac will be a defacto dead platform.”
The just under 3% thing is based on yearly sales, so that’s OS X. Counting OS 9 they are well over 10%.
“Rules of Owning a Macintosh, #17:
Whenever someone presents the Macintosh owner with facts that diminish the eternal glory of Macintosh Ownership, the Mac owner should respond with insults and mockery.
This sort of response will prevent any sort of discussion from taking place. A lack of rational communication is important as objective discussions concerning the Macintosh have been shown in the past to be disturbing to Macintosh Owners. Like the poor people that own lesser brands of computing equipment, they are better off avoided.”
We just get annoyed with trolls. I don’t troll other platform threads, don’t troll in mine.
“Oh so now you admit that their price gouging. What is it, one or the other? I just cant understand you.”
That didn’t even make sense.
“Exactly. MS has provided patches usually a full month before any exploits.”
If the software was made correctly there would be any viruses. That was my point.
“So your in favor of automatic patching? Oh well it just so happens MS is once again, responsding to the needs of the user and has invested in such a technology which will be included in Longhorn. Its part of the Trustworthy Computing iniative.”
I am certainly not in favor of someone else altering my computer. I am, however, in favor of operating systems without viruses.
“Rubbish. Im so very disappointed with you PanterPPC.”
How in the world was that rubbish? DId you even read it?
“Yup they’re nothing like DELL. Nope Apple is not:
-sucessful”
An increase in all their items sales…yeah, that’s horrible. Lol.
“-produces resonable priced computers”
That all depends on what you plan on doing with it.
“-one of the biggest computer makers in the WORLD!”
Actually, they are.
“Money isnt paper.
paper — (a material made of cellulose pulp derived mainly from wood or rags or certain grasses)
http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn?stage=1&word=pape…
Its made of about 25% linen and 75% cotton.”
You have waaay too much time on your hands. Beat the game early today?
“Whats stopping you from using 3rd party software?”
Why do you think there was such a big problem about IE, and now Windows Media Player?
“You lie so badly.
The teacher/student edition is $115(USD) and the full version is about $290(USD).An excellent price for one of the most incrediable pieces of s/w to come out of redmond.”
I don’t count educational discounts…I am not still in school. And if you want to count it as $290, I still consider that too much for something so full of holes.
“Plus since were talking about PCs, the user has the choice of other office suites. StarOffice/OpenOffice comes to mind.”
You seem to imply that MS Office is the only one on OS X. Not so.
“Hardly. It is however very slow and the interface has far too much eye candy. This interference makes it impossible to do real work. ”
Try Panther…no more speed issues. And the interface is excellent, but you can always use a theme…they are free and easy to come by.
“Unforutaly yes. I thought I was going to go blind because of the playschool interface.”
Anything can be themed if you don’t like it.
“But im 18. See look at my manly muscles.”
Yeah, right.
“I still have your attention dont I?”
Most trolls at least read what they are trolling about.
“Actaully I just went and bought UT2k4. Wonderful game, you should try it.”
Have tried it. I’m not much for games anymore, ever since I grew up.
Bleh too many statements to respond to. Ill reluctantly but generously call a truce.
Dont think your off the hook. I’ll win someday.
Based on current installed base, not periodic sales, Mac OS X market share currently hovers around 0.5%.
This figure represents Apple’s share of the total installed base of computers, not any sort of weekly/monthly/annual sales.
Furthermore, this calculation is based on numbers right from Steve Jobs.
Because PC’s are vastly outselling Macintosh, the share of the installed base of computers is rapidly falling.
Mac OS X’s overall share of the installed base is expected to fall to around 0.4% by the end of 2004.
Soon Macintosh will be like Amiga with a bunch of squabblers fighting over who is to be the next king of the reanimated OS. Except the cult parties will be better.
“Based on current installed base, not periodic sales, Mac OS X market share currently hovers around 0.5%.
This figure represents Apple’s share of the total installed base of computers, not any sort of weekly/monthly/annual sales.
Furthermore, this calculation is based on numbers right from Steve Jobs.
Because PC’s are vastly outselling Macintosh, the share of the installed base of computers is rapidly falling.
Mac OS X’s overall share of the installed base is expected to fall to around 0.4% by the end of 2004.
Soon Macintosh will be like Amiga with a bunch of squabblers fighting over who is to be the next king of the reanimated OS. Except the cult parties will be better.”
So you are saying the installed userbase is smaller than the yearly sales marketshare? How in the world did you come to that conclusion? That would mean they are selling more than one Mac to each customer every year.
What makes you think Apple desperately wants to increase it’s market share?
There are several ways of achieving profit and one of them is high margins on moderate sales, and it is pretty obvious that this is the route Apple have chosen all along.
Apple sold just 749000 Apple computers and 807000 iPods, but made a healthy profit of over 45 million dollars, more than three times the profit in the same quarter last year.
Their turnover increased by 29% compared to last year and the iPod is 15% of their turnover.
It seems pretty obvious to me that Apple’s strategy of selling expensive systems with high-margins is working very well.
Apple’s philosophy is to sell high-end professional workstations/servers + consumer grade computers.
By keeping such a big seperation between the low-end and high-end, they make sure that the low-end systems does not cannabilise their high-end sales.
It may suck that they don’t have any systems in your price range that you want, but I doubt Apple really cares about what you think. Their strategy is working.
I agree. I’ve had my fling with Apple and an iBook and I’m back enjoying Windows XP. It just works better!
Soon Macintosh will be like Amiga with a bunch of squabblers fighting over who is to be the next king of the reanimated OS. Except the cult parties will be better.”
Yeah in your own mind, read the article!
continued
this week at circuit city page 14 4-18-04 to 4-24-4
emachines tower t3085 all for only $609
amd athlon xp 3000+
front side bus 333mhz
512MB PC2700 DDR SDRAM expandable to 2gb
160GB 7200RPM Ultra DMA hard drive
cd-rom drive
dvd + – r/rw drive (DVD+/-RW drive: 4x DVD+/-R write, 2.4x DVD+RW write, 2x DVD-RW write, 16x CD-R write, 10x CD-RW write, 12x DVD-ROM read, 40x CD-ROM read; CD-ROM drive: 48x read)
64mb nvidia geforce4 mx video card
8-in-1 media reader (USB 2.0, SD (Secure Digital), Smart Media, Compact Flash, Memory Stick®, Memory Stick Pro®, Micro Drive, MultiMedia Card)
56K ITU V.92 ready fax/modem
nForce™ 5.1 6-channel audio
2 speakers
lexmark inkjet printer z705
17″ flat screen crt eview17f3
multimedia keyboard
2 button scroll wheel mouse
full 1 year warranty
software encluded:
Operating System and Vendor Utility Software: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Productivity Software Included: Microsoft® Works 6.0, Money 20034, Encarta Online, Adobe® Acrobat Reader®, Norton AntiVirus™ 2004 (90-day free subscription)
Internet Software Included: Internet Explorer, CompuServe®, AOL® 9.0
Educational/Entertainment Software Included: Power DVD, Microsoft® Media Player, RealPlayer, Roxio Easy CD & DVD Creator Basic
$360 less than new high end eMac with the same or better features.
Wow.
” reason why mac sales are less than ipods”
That’s an easy one. There is more demand for a music player than a computer. Duh. Look at the Walkman.
“this week at circuit city page 14 4-18-04 to 4-24-4
emachines tower t3085 all for only $609
amd athlon xp 3000+
front side bus 333mhz
512MB PC2700 DDR SDRAM expandable to 2gb
160GB 7200RPM Ultra DMA hard drive
cd-rom drive
dvd + – r/rw drive (DVD+/-RW drive: 4x DVD+/-R write, 2.4x DVD+RW write, 2x DVD-RW write, 16x CD-R write, 10x CD-RW write, 12x DVD-ROM read, 40x CD-ROM read; CD-ROM drive: 48x read)
64mb nvidia geforce4 mx video card
8-in-1 media reader (USB 2.0, SD (Secure Digital), Smart Media, Compact Flash, Memory Stick®, Memory Stick Pro®, Micro Drive, MultiMedia Card)
56K ITU V.92 ready fax/modem
nForce™ 5.1 6-channel audio
2 speakers
lexmark inkjet printer z705
17″ flat screen crt eview17f3
multimedia keyboard
2 button scroll wheel mouse
full 1 year warranty”
Let me tell you this now before you go any further. Any way you look at it, eMachines are the absolute worst computers you can get your hands on. You can’t get lower on the food chain. Even die-hard PC loving Mac haters will agree on that.
“software encluded:
Operating System and Vendor Utility Software: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition”
That’s your second problem.
“Productivity Software Included: Microsoft® Works 6.0,”
Don’t use it so I won’t say much, but I hear it’s about the equivalent of AppleWorks.
“Money 20034,”
Hopefully that won’t be used for anything other than simple home budgeting.
“Encarta Online,”
Boring version of World Book Multimedia.
“Adobe® Acrobat Reader®,”
Slow and outdated.
“Norton AntiVirus™ 2004 (90-day free subscription)”
With a good OS that wouldn’t be needed.
“Internet Software Included: Internet Explorer, CompuServe®, AOL® 9.0”
That’s not really a bonus.
“Educational/Entertainment Software Included: Power DVD,”
It makes me cringe to think you can compare that garbage to iDVD.
“Microsoft® Media Player,”
Blah…it’s on everything.
“RealPlayer,”
Another one on everything (I still don’t like using it).
“Roxio Easy CD & DVD Creator Basic”
That does less than the Finder. Roxio’s only decent software is Toast, which I only use to burn multiplatform kiosks, which can’t be done on Windows anyway.
“$360 less than new high end eMac with the same or better features.”
I wouldn’t call an eMac the same or better than anything. What you are getting for $360 less is horribly bad hardware quality, a just-good-enough-to-get-by OS, and the bottom of the barrel software, some of which is only there to make up for the operating systems shortcomings.
people that are quite happy with their emachines. yep, they are inexpensive and not top end PCs. they are bargain PCs and at $390 less than an eMac, that is why they outsell Macs.
this machine at $609 is a powerful solution for the typical family that wants to do email, web surf, chat, play with some photos, do homework, burn cds and dvds, edit home movies, play games….and with the $390 they save over the emac they can buy a digital still camera or digital movie camera, palm or pocketpc, home theatre system, etc etc.
wouldnt we all be so lucky if $390 meant nothing.
emachines now sells more computers than apple.
they have low budget models and mid quality models.
yes, the one listed here is a low budget pc.
the emac is a low budget mac.
the emac has a better warranty than an emac.
and
it has a substantially faster cpu.
it has a better video card with 2x the video memory.
it has 2x the RAM
it has 2 optical drives for drive to drive burning.
it has an open hard drive bay.
it has an open agp slot.
it has 2 open pci slots.
it has 2x the hard drive space
it has a memory reader.
it includes a printer that sells stand alone for about $70.
it has a monitor that can easily be replaced or upgraded.
if you buy the speakers, it supports 5.1 surround sound natively.
the dvd drive supports both + and – standards.
xp home is installed on over 100 million computers worldwide and does just great.
the bundled software is not top end, but on a bargain PC it is more than adequate for most users doing basic tasks.
are you suggesting that there is any computer and/or OS that should operate without anti-virus and/or firewall software? if so, then you are a poor member of the online community. all computers should be protected to keep the community safe.
you could even use the $360 saved to buy an iPod or creative muvo
🙂
“I know many people that are quite happy with their emachines. yep, they are inexpensive and not top end PCs. they are bargain PCs and at $390 less than an eMac, that is why they outsell Macs.”
Every person I’ve ever talked to has done nothing but complain about eMachines. I’ve seen the things fall apart on too many occasions to consider it a small issue.
“this machine at $609 is a powerful solution for the typical family that wants to do email, web surf, chat, play with some photos, do homework, burn cds and dvds, edit home movies, play games….and with the $390 they save over the emac they can buy a digital still camera or digital movie camera, palm or pocketpc, home theatre system, etc etc.”
Do you realize how many problems and how much frustration the bundled apps will cause when trying to do that stuff? If you plan on doing anything other than web browse it would be more than worth it not to bother with that crap.
“wouldnt we all be so lucky if $390 meant nothing.”
Lol. Yes, we would.
“emachines now sells more computers than apple.”
eMachines sells computers the same way Dell does, in bulk to large corporations. Go ask a few of those peope who use them at work if they would ever buy one for home.
“they have low budget models and mid quality models.”
Yet none of them are quality models at all.
“yes, the one listed here is a low budget pc.
the emac is a low budget mac.”
There’s the big difference though, Apple doesn’t cater to the low budget market, and has no reason to do so.
“the emac has a better warranty than an emac.
and”
You’ll need it.
“it has a substantially faster cpu.”
I wouldn’t go that far.
“it has a better video card with 2x the video memory.”
That’s shared memory.
“it has 2x the RAM”
Hence why you don’t buy from Apple. Places like MacMall and CDW will give free ram away with purchases.
“it has 2 optical drives for drive to drive burning.”
That’s a bonus of a tower. Although if I had said something about that I’m sure you’d have called me a pirate.
“it has an open hard drive bay.
it has an open agp slot.
it has 2 open pci slots.”
Have you EVER, ever, seen someone who uses an eMachine exapnd anything more than ram? No one here is saying that towers don’t expand more than all-in-ones, but you don’t seem to understand the benefits of all-in-ones, and you don’t seem to understand that Apple isn’t selling to the same market that buys low-end computers. They have no reason to…they understand that marketshare is meaningless. You’d be hard pressed to find one reason marketshare matters unless you own the market.
“it has 2x the hard drive space”
Again a bonus of a tower, but eMacs aren’t hard to get larger hard drives in, and most resellers will do it for you. Just ask.
“it has a memory reader.”
Have yet to find out what those are for.
“it includes a printer that sells stand alone for about $70.”
Again, look at places other than Apple to bundle that stuff with Macs. MacMall, MacWarehouse, CDW, they all do it, and with RAM.
“it has a monitor that can easily be replaced or upgraded.”
Do you really not see how some people don’t want to bother with that at all? Apple isn’t the only company selling all-on-one computers.
“if you buy the speakers, it supports 5.1 surround sound natively.”
And if you buy speakers with an eMac it supports it too. I didn’t think anyone made something that doesn’t by now.
“the dvd drive supports both + and – standards.”
Unfortunetly DVD players don’t, so what’s the point?
“xp home is installed on over 100 million computers worldwide and does just great.”
If it does just great how come there are so many fixes for it all the time? I mean come on, over 20 in one day? Companies bundling antivirus software shows that the OS has some major flaws in it.
“the bundled software is not top end, but on a bargain PC it is more than adequate for most users doing basic tasks.”
The bundled software should be freeware, it’s not worth the effort.
“are you suggesting that there is any computer and/or OS that should operate without anti-virus and/or firewall software? if so, then you are a poor member of the online community. all computers should be protected to keep the community safe.”
Well the complete lack of viruses for OS X has kept me from worrying about antivirus software and firewalls for years now. And don’t give me that security though obscurity BS than Microsoft keeps spouting out. Mac users are very arrogant about viruses and because of that there are tons of crackers who would love to be able to take out some Macs. It would get them more headlines than the SoBig guys.
“and you could even use the $360 saved to buy an iPod or creative muvo
:)”
Then you’d be stuck using the iPod with Windows, which after trying it both ways, I can tell you they just don’t compare. I’d probably never update mine again if I had to use it on Windows from now on. And Creative has yet to make a decent product.
no mac made ships with sound capable of doing 5.1 surround sound natively. NONE. check it out. Thats why apple recommends the logitech z-680 set for the g5 towers—it has a decoder built into the speakers. Doh.
dvd players do support discs burnt with both + and – discs. The most comprehensive study done to date showed the – standard to be about 2% better at compatability on a host of standalone players…94% to 92% success rate if I remember correctly.
You are a poor net citizen if you operate without a firewall and anti-virus software. Who know how you infest the world. You could be running a spam relay and not even know it. Be mature and help the world.
Your accuracy leaves your veracity at ZERO.