Curtis Sasaki, Sun’s vice president of desktop solutions, told eWEEK in an interview Wednesday, ahead of the summit, that among the key advances in version 2.0 are management capabilities that allow enterprises to fine-tune and remotely set up the desktop. Also, Sun has exceeded its own expectations by signing 21 original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) for several products the company offers as alternatives to Microsoft Corp. desktop software, Sun announced Thursday at the Desktop Linux Summit in San Diego. TheRegister has a story about JDS as well. Also, MSNBC has a review of JDS 1.0.
Sun’s Second Java Desktop System Slated for May Release
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Does anyone know if this will include Project Looking glass?
I hope so, but don’t think so. I think last time I saw a couple of weeks ago, it was still experimental. But not sure. If it is, I will definitely buy.
Oh, just finished actually reading the article before posting again. Nope, not in this one. It says probably the next offering. Will just have to wait.
Interesting to note that the JDS article is from MSNBC and actually portrays the OS as a solid competitor to Windows.
Good to see some evidence of journalistic integrity.
JDS has some minor Ui irritations that hopefully will be fixed in the next release. I got it in a special deal ($50) and I am fairly happy with it. It is definately aimed at the corporate desktop but it makes a soldi, no frills home desktop as well.
I’ll add my voice to the chorus…when (if, knowing Sun) they release a JDS with Looking Glass, I will pay real money for that distro. But not until then. Until then it’s just another me-too, I-look-just-like-Windows-98 Linux distro.
What I never understood about JDS was that it got such high praise when all it was was a re-branded SUSE with less packages. I suppose if you are looking for some middle ground between SUSE Personal and Pro right now it’s a good deal(since it’s discounted to $50) but otherwise it’s not really worth it.
Can someone explain why JDS is so great?
“Can someone explain why JDS is so great?”
Because it’s aimed at the corporate desktop and seems to have a chance to make real inroads there. It’s not really about the technology at all. If you talk to a business owner about Suse they won’t know what you are talking about, if you talk Linux they will think it’s too hard to work with and/or it’s for *nix geeks, but if you talk Sun they will know what you are talking about. Most Linux users are pretty fed up with Sun at this point, but people who don’t know Linux and don’t pay too much attention to Sun know the name, and that’s what counts.
What I never understood about JDS was that it got such high praise when all it was was a re-branded SUSE with less packages.
Heh. I’ve thought for a long time that Linux distributions would be better off with fewer packages.
Because it’s aimed at the corporate desktop and seems to have a chance to make real inroads there. It’s not really about the technology at all. If you talk to a business owner about Suse they won’t know what you are talking about, if you talk Linux they will think it’s too hard to work with and/or it’s for *nix geeks, but if you talk Sun they will know what you are talking about. Most Linux users are pretty fed up with Sun at this point, but people who don’t know Linux and don’t pay too much attention to Sun know the name, and that’s what counts.
Why are Linux users fed up with SUN? because SUN has decided that Linux best use is on the desktop and promotes its use on the desktop and for servers they promote Solaris (x86/SPARC).
Talk to the *real* contributors to Linux, and quite frankly, they’re excited about the fact that SUN is going gangbusters about Linux and the desktop. Where is IBM and the Linux desktop? of course, non-existant, how about HP? when GNOME development got a little tough, they stopped helping to port GNOME to HP-UX. Look at the so-called “Linux supporters”, compare them to a tangiable measurement and it seems that the only one that comes out as a substantial contributor to Linux is SUN.
Regarding SUN and its customers, the whole point of JDS is this; they have many customer out there who just use their servers, they want more than that, they want their customers to use their middleware and desktop operating system, also, SUN *need* to have an offering that can compete with Microsofts desktop/server integrated future; Novell has shown that their future is integrating mono into linux and applications, SUN is integrating their Application server back end into their OpenOffice.org client and offer the same capabilities Microsoft is offering via Sharepoint etc. etc.
While other vendors talk the talk about a Linux desktop for the coprorate crowd, Sun has done it. Is it perfect? now way. Is it better than the nonexistant ones form IBM and Red Hat? yes. At least its a start.
that it will include Looking Glass. A while ago I remember reading something to that effect.
“Why are Linux users fed up with SUN? because SUN has decided that Linux best use is on the desktop and promotes its use on the desktop and for servers they promote Solaris (x86/SPARC).
Talk to the *real* contributors to Linux, and quite frankly, they’re excited about the fact that SUN is going gangbusters about Linux and the desktop. Where is IBM and the Linux desktop? of course, non-existant, how about HP? when GNOME development got a little tough, they stopped helping to port GNOME to HP-UX. Look at the so-called “Linux supporters”, compare them to a tangiable measurement and it seems that the only one that comes out as a substantial contributor to Linux is SUN.
Regarding SUN and its customers, the whole point of JDS is this; they have many customer out there who just use their servers, they want more than that, they want their customers to use their middleware and desktop operating system, also, SUN *need* to have an offering that can compete with Microsofts desktop/server integrated future; Novell has shown that their future is integrating mono into linux and applications, SUN is integrating their Application server back end into their OpenOffice.org client and offer the same capabilities Microsoft is offering via Sharepoint etc. etc.”
I didn’t say anything about whether Sun was good or bad for Linux, or about what they do or don’t contribute. A lot of Linux users are fed up with Sun at this point because Sun has been very wishy-washy with it’s comitment to Linux in the past. Personally I really hope JDS gains a lot of ground, and I think their stratagy has a lot going for it, *if they stick to it.*
While that’s well and good you shouldn’t really say companies like IBM aren’t contributing to linux.
Even if you are selling it on servers (IBM does lots more than this I believe) you are building a customer base on linux. That will lead to more apps, more people using it etc.
Anything like this is good for the OS as a whole.
Desktops like JDS are exciting because it’s highly visible but users are users wether it’s a server in a closet or rack or a desktop in an office.
IBM also offer lots of interesting how-tos on linux on developer works and just yesterday I got an email from them offering a change to try their new linux development tools.
I know you are focussing on the desktop but the desktop is only a part of linux and of course someone like Sun will be talking up the desktop’s importance but that’s what they are selling. These other companies are not primarily selling the desktop.
Sun one day loves Linux, the next day Schwartz says they have no Linux strategy.
They sell a lousy desktop that does not measure up to the latest editions of Suse or Mandrake.
If they are serious about open source, I welcome them with open arms, but I am sick and tired of their wishy-washy attitudes. They fan the SCO fire when SCO first announced its lawsuit, because they claim to be “the only inmdenified Unix”.
If Sun does right by the open source community, the community will do right by them. But SUN has left a very bitter taste in the mouth of many of us. I am taking a wait-and-see attitude. I will evaluate what they have contributed a year down the road.
I still think that their distro is lousy compared to the real thing.
Yeah for the OEMs and for Wal-Mart.com for taking a chance on distributing PCs with a linux distro pre-installed. This a good move for linux and for SUN. The all of the Linux distros need more market share — best that they take it way from HP and Microsoft than each other.
Suse? Wasn’t it a re-packaged Red Hat?
PantherPPC (IP: —.asm.bellsouth.net) – Posted on 2004-04-23 01:51:50
I didn’t say anything about whether Sun was good or bad for Linux, or about what they do or don’t contribute. A lot of Linux users are fed up with Sun at this point because Sun has been very wishy-washy with it’s comitment to Linux in the past. Personally I really hope JDS gains a lot of ground, and I think their stratagy has a lot going for it, *if they stick to it.*
Wishy washy is even a more inaccurate example. SUN employees that I know of have been using Linux *long* before it became trendy and hip to use it, SUN even back before Linux became the media darling was pushed as a great way to get people into UNIX (before they had the $75 “Free Solaris” programme), Linux has never had a wishy washy relationship. It has been viewed either as an ally or a complimentry product.
Heck, do I need to bring out video taped and audio recorded comfessions by SUN managers back before 2000 when SUN viewed Linux as a great UNIX clone for those interested in learning UNIX or wanting to have a low cost UNIX like desktop? does one need to bring up SUN years ago who said that Linux is a UNIX?
marshall (IP: 210.54.151.—) – Posted on 2004-04-23 02:13:36
While that’s well and good you shouldn’t really say companies like IBM aren’t contributing to linux.
Whilst at the same time, lets not get wrapped up in IBM. IBM’s goal is to sell services; services have low overheads, the margins are great, you can keep sucking cash from the customer until their business goes under and what ever you say, the customer will believe you, why not? they’re Big Blue(tm)!
Even if you are selling it on servers (IBM does lots more than this I believe) you are building a customer base on linux. That will lead to more apps, more people using it etc.
But does it matter that it runs on a server? no. You can run Solaris on the same server at a cheaper price that if you bought the supported versions available from Red Hat (Red Hat Enterprise Server) or SuSE (SuSE Enterprise Server).
What *is* important *is* the desktop. If you’ve failed to notice, Microsofts push right now is to fuse the desktop-server into one, and lock out competition, *anything* that disrupts this “grand unified theory” is good in my boosk, and the biggest disrupter is to get rid of the Windows desktops.
Anything like this is good for the OS as a whole.
Desktops like JDS are exciting because it’s highly visible but users are users wether it’s a server in a closet or rack or a desktop in an office.
But the server sells the desktop and the desktop sells the server. The two are inter-related.
IBM also offer lots of interesting how-tos on linux on developer works and just yesterday I got an email from them offering a change to try their new linux development tools.
Which is nothing new. These have existed for years on varius sites, all IBM has done is provided a “one stop shop”, that is nothing wrong with that, but lets not try to make it out to be more than it really is.
I know you are focussing on the desktop but the desktop is only a part of linux and of course someone like Sun will be talking up the desktop’s importance but that’s what they are selling. These other companies are not primarily selling the desktop.
And these companies that don’t primary sell the desktop are more than happy to bend over for Microsoft. I’ve yet to jump on the IBM site and see something like, “would you like Linux with this thinkcentre PC? click here to make it possible!”. Even something like *that* would be a great offer but neither HP/Compaq or IBM offer this, and as for HP/Compaq, I wouldn’t purchase a PC off then even if you paid me. The last time I tried to purchase a PC they expected me to visit 100s of different resellers in a vein hope of being able to find the PC I want.
Any HP/Compaq lemmings out there reading this; get an online store with ALL YOUR PRODUCTS to allow us in Australia/New Zealand to purchase it without the need to travell around the area looking for resellers who stock them.
doggedblued (IP: —.209.42.38.dsli.com) – Posted on 2004-04-23 02:56:30
Sun one day loves Linux, the next day Schwartz says they have no Linux strategy.
Let me guess, you also spread the Rush Limagh spin which resulted in rumours of Gore saying that he invented the internet.
Schwartz made it crystal clear that Solaris x86/SPARC on the server, Linux on the desktop. Linux according to Schwartz has to place on the server. SUN will provide Linux on the server, but don’t expect SUN to develop their own version of Linux and throw the equal amount of weight behind it as they do with Solaris; that is what he meant by saying “we have no Linux [server] strategy”
They sell a lousy desktop that does not measure up to the latest editions of Suse or Mandrake.
Lousy compared to the multi-cd bloatware vendors out there that place a greater value on cramming CDs full of applications that each re-invent the whell?
If they are serious about open source, I welcome them with open arms, but I am sick and tired of their wishy-washy attitudes. They fan the SCO fire when SCO first announced its lawsuit, because they claim to be “the only inmdenified Unix”.
Wel, it s a fact, they’re the ones with the most comprehensive license in the market. Face that fact and move on.
If Sun does right by the open source community, the community will do right by them. But SUN has left a very bitter taste in the mouth of many of us. I am taking a wait-and-see attitude. I will evaluate what they have contributed a year down the road.
Bullcrap, what do you call OpenOffice.org? if it weren’t for OpenOffice.org, we’d be waiting for ever and a day for the so-called “GNOME Office” to actually turn into something viable.
About the *only* thing that I would have pushed instead would have been the adoption of KDE, the buying out of Trolltech then BSD/MIT licensing of Qt to make it freely available for use by developers, both open and closed source.
They sell a lousy desktop that does not measure up to the latest editions of Suse or Mandrake.
JDS is based on SUSE linux. It is SUSE with a sun wrapper desktop.
Please research before you go ranting on.
Suse is not a rebranded Redhat and has never been. They all use RPM but they are very different distros. Mandrake started off as Redhat with KDE coz Redhat only used GNOME at that time, but Mandrake has evolved into it’s own stand alone distro with very little in common with Redhat.
> would have been the adoption of KDE, the buying out of
> Trolltech then BSD/MIT licensing of Qt to make it freely
> available for use by developers, both open and closed
> source.
Always the same about about QT, Trolltech is a company, they need money to make a life. Can’t you understand that the dual licencing of QT is the best choice?
kaiwai, I know Sun has a long history with Unix and Linux. It has had its ups, like the ones you noted, but there are just as many times when they put Linux on the backburner. They come out an say they have all these great plans and then you never hear anything about it again. People were sceptical about JDS when it was first announced, a lot of people considered it vaporware until they saw it for sale. I don’t follow Sun enough to do this point for point, and those points don’t really matter. This is the perception of Sun among the Linux user community. That’s all I was saying, that Sun was thought of by a lot of Linux users as not being very commited. Perception is everything in this industry, and that fact has shown itself true time and time again…Windows is thought to be secure by Windows users, Linux is thought to be easy by Linux users, Apple is thought to be going out of business. While not a single one of those is true, it’s the common perception, and the market as a whole reflects that.
Er, sorry about the confusion… what I meant was, I thought JDS was a re-packaged Red Hat and not a SUSE.
Don’t worry, I do know that SUSE is definitely not an RH, never was and never will be
Sun’s guerilla marketers are out in force.
> would have been the adoption of KDE, the buying out of
> Trolltech then BSD/MIT licensing of Qt to make it freely
> available for use by developers, both open and closed
> source.
Always the same about about QT, Trolltech is a company, they need money to make a life. Can’t you understand that the dual licencing of QT is the best choice?
Nice to see that you ignore the whole post.
There is nothing wrong with dual licensing, what I am saying is if Trolltech was bought out by SUN and made freely available, for both opensource and proprietary development, and SUN absorbed the cost of developing it by recooping money via IDE developed ontop of Qt and developer support etc etc. then it would spur a greater adoption of not only developing for Linux but also spur developers to move away from single platform api like win32 in favour of Qt.
… because it’s fun.
Let’s see, Sun supports gnome, mozilla and supplies OOo with the base systems.
Sun compiles BSD and Debian SPARC Linux versions for download. Sun gives SPARC systems to various OSS programs to use for providing SPARC ports.
Sun has their own supported distribution of Linux, JDS.
Looking glass, neat project, Sun funded.
JDS is cool and does the job it is intended to do. That is why Sun just announced so many OEMs are signing up. As a business Linux JDS is tops.
So I guess since Sun doesn’t do everything the rabid kill M$ crowd wants them to do, Sun is bad.
Bash away.
PS: Ask yourself do you believe everything IBM allegedly does for Linux is for free? or do you think IBM wants to profit from what they do? Think about it.
I wish I had a job with Sun, I don’t, but I do think that they are staunch supporters of Linux. Without Sun Linux would still be toodling along with no good office software.
@z1xq (IP: 205.204.242.—)
And without the opensource community, StarOffice would have remained one big pile of “integrated” crap. It is only now that people are beginning to appreciate the potential of StarOffice/OpenOffice after open source developers *jointly with* Sun developers put much needed love into it.
Raptor (IP: —.186.171.66.subscriber.vzavenue.net)
I am aware that Sun sells a rebranded Suse. That’s why I said it doens’t measure up to *current* offerings by Mandrake and Suse. And they did a very poor job of rebranding it, removing most of the useful applications.
bxb32001 (IP: 218.244.55.—)
Sun did use the SCO lawsuit to spread FUD about linux, that is the fact.
And Schwartz did say that they had no Linux strategy without providing any nuances as the ones you are seeking to provide for him now. You are the one putting a different spin on his words from the ones he originally intended. It isn’t my fault that Sun’s management does not have a coherent strategy and changes its mind every other day of the week.
The Sun apologists are funny. They are defending a proprietary operating system on proprietary hardware as what the industry wants. They are so out of touch with reality that it is sad. If this were Sun’s only strategy, at least, they would be coherent. But failing as they are, they now see cheap Walmart PCs as the way to bail themselves out. Good luck to them. They are going to need it.
I am aware that Sun sells a rebranded Suse. That’s why I said it doens’t measure up to *current* offerings by Mandrake and Suse. And they did a very poor job of rebranding it, removing most of the useful applications.
It didn’t seem like that from your post. You didn’t claim that Sun did a poor job rebrqanding. Suse just released 9.1 and the article here is about sun’s next version of JDS. Am I missing something or are you.
I don’t understand your attitude. You claimed Sun as done wrong by Open source becuase they have no linux strategy???
linux != open source. Since you are an open source advocate you should have known that. Sun has released more code to the open source community that any other company, including IBM.
OpenOffice.org, NetBeans, contributions to Mozilla, GNOME (the whole accessability and useability studies and work), NFS. I am sure there are more. All IBM has done is enable linux to run on thier platforms so they can stop AIX development and move thier customers to linux. Not becuase linux is better but because AIX has no mindshare and it is ages behind Solaris in the UNIX market.
Sun has not done any wrong by the open source community, they don’t want to sell linux on everything becuase they think they have a superior product for servers. Solaris isn’t anywhere close to linux on the desktop, so they sell linux on the desktop. How is that doing wrong??? I don’t see IBM opensourcing Rational tools or the lotus suite or thier Java VM, websphere or DB2. Why not give them grief?
Because most so called open source advocate are partial to linux. If some one contributes to linux they have done right by Open Source, regardless of thier motives. But a company that actively open sources it product portfoilio is doing wrong because it doesn’t back linux!!!! Oh the hypocrisy.
The Sun apologists are funny. They are defending a proprietary operating system on proprietary hardware as what the industry wants. They are so out of touch with reality that it is sad. If this were Sun’s only strategy, at least, they would be coherent. But failing as they are, they now see cheap Walmart PCs as the way to bail themselves out. Good luck to them. They are going to need it.
Do you know what the industry wants? Are you the CIO of a fortune 500 comany or do you do research for the IDC or DataQuest? What research have you done to confidently know what the industry wants. Don’t make blanket staments.
Which hardware that linux runs on is non-proprietary, Intel or AMD? All of AMD’s and intel’s cpus are proprietary to thier rspective companies. Intel has 95% of the x86 market, x86 is not an open architecture you have to pay Intel royalities to license the ISA, AMD pays intel royalties.
And without the opensource community, StarOffice would have remained one big pile of “integrated” crap. It is only now that people are beginning to appreciate the potential of StarOffice/OpenOffice after open source developers *jointly with* Sun developers put much needed love into it.
You know that staroffice was an integrated pile of crap well before StarDivision was acquired by Sun. You can say Sun’s dollars and open sourcing staroffice is what made it what it is today. It would have died a horrible death otherwise, look at wordperfect.
Got to the openoffice.org site. Majority of the leads for the project are sun employees, there aren’t that many opensource guys working on openoffice.
Stop spreading misinformation.
Kudos to all those above who’ve seen fit to inject some sense & moderation into this mini flame-fest.
I don’t know what it is with this whole ambivalent relationship with Sun, but IMO Sun has done more for the open-source community that a lot of other so-called “open-source advocates”. Most already mentioned, but I’ll add one – Sun docs/HIG guide, several years ago (Gnome 2.0) – it’s obvious they hav been putting effort in, albeit quitely.
I suppose in many respects it’s like their marketing strategy – they actually do have some really great stuff, it’s just they never seem to get around to advertising it.
Haven’t tried JDS, so I won’t say anything on it, but I have tried Solaris Express (comments on other Sun post, ~ 2 days ago) and I’m pretty impressed.
PS: Greets to kaiwai (I’m in Sydney, and I know what you mean)
Great post. I would add that the name “Java Desktop” bugs me.
What sunw is selling is a linux distro, it has nothing to do with Java. But Java is sunw product, and Linux is not; so sunw decides to put their sticker on an OSS product and make believe it’s sunw technology.