Last week, Steve Jobs sat down with the Journal’s Walter S. Mossberg for a rare onstage conversation at the second annual D: All Things Digital conference in Carlsbad, Calif. Excerpts: Steve Jobs talked about the success of iTunes, Mac’s future, movie piracy.
Interview with Steve Jobs: The Music Man
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Eugenia Loli
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I dont agree with his thoughts on movie piracy. He doesn’t think that people downloading movies is a threat because of quality and it takes too long to do. To download a 2 cd svcd which is DVD quality would take around 3 maybe 4 hours on a normal broadband connection. And ofcourse you cant forget about divx or xvid where you will only be downloading normally 700megs or so for a movie. I think its kind of like saying whats the point in releasing linux iso’s on the net, there too big and no one will download them. I know I downloaded mandrake 10 yesterday in under 2 hours and that was 3 full cds. Those 3cds could have been 3 full movies and having 3 movies in under 2hours and all for free seems like a pretty big scare to me if I was in the movie industry. I just think the movie industry better do something so it doesnt go the same way music went. I think I did hear the real will be offering movies soon???
IMHO the MPAA is blowing the internet piracy thing out of proportion. I dont’s know anyone that goes to the movies alone, it is something you do on a date or with friends. I see movies all the time (1 or 2 times a week) and every time I have to watch the same 2 lame poor painter or broke stuntman complaining about internet piracy cutting into their checks. I am so sick of watching those 2 lame clips that I usually leave for popcorn or soda when it comes on.
If I had a server with unlimited bandwidth I would offer every single popular movie and DVD as a free download till the MPAA removed their annoying ads from all the movies I pay good money to watch.
People definitly still go to the movies, I don’t think that business is hurt from movie downloading. Going to the movies is something to do with friends or with a date and that will always be, no matter if you can download the movie or not. What hurts are the rental places and dvd sales. By the time you can rent the movie or buy it the movie has probably already been out on the net for some time, ripped from a dvd and be dvd quality. Its very easy to get movies either from newsgroups, ftps, irc, bittorrent … the list goes on and on. I am at college and I dont know of anyone that rents movies because its so easy to find either on the internet or just the schools local network.
Maybe Steve’s Mac should play commercials every time he starts it. Commercials that you can’t skip, can’t fast forward through, etc. Then perhaps Jobs would understand why the modern DVD is a disrespectful rip off.
Jobs has no idea what goes on with what is ill-named ‘piracy’. Many people outside of rich Silicon Valley jobs without mansions in Palo Alto simply cannot afford to buy or rent movies. Or they don’t want Hollywood tracking what they buy or rent.
I just have to laugh when the tyrants of the modern age — the CEOs — pontificate on how the world should be so they can make more money. It’s just another remix of “fuck the people”. Yawn.
“Jobs has no idea what goes on with what is ill-named ‘piracy’. Many people outside of rich Silicon Valley jobs without mansions in Palo Alto simply cannot afford to buy or rent movies. Or they don’t want Hollywood tracking what they buy or rent.”
Or they’re just cheap. Not having money doesn’t make it okay to steal. If you think they charge to much, stop buying them, but don’t steal them. They are going to charge as much as they can get, that’s how business works. Why sell yourself short? And for the record, I know people living at the poverty line who can still afford to rent movies. And yes, I know, it only costs about $2 to make a DVD with case/cover and all, but the movie itself cost a ton to make, those people need to be compensated, and yes, they make a lot of money, but they are also at the top of their fields.
As for who would download a movie, for most people time is money and a four hour download just isn’t worth it. A minimum wage job would get you mroe than a movie in less that four hours, and you would get DVD quality. The people who do this stuff are usually the ones with waaaay too much time on their hands.
The people who do this stuff are usually the ones with waaaay too much time on their hands.
It’s not as if one has to check-in every byte being downloaded, they just leave it running in the background and check 4 hours later…so someone can still work on some minimum-wage job and get some money in the meantime.
The main reason why I don’t download movies is because they’re just crappy to watch, nothing replaces the “silver screen”. But I agree they should make the experience more enjoyable, here in Norway we get up to 20 minutes of commercial (not trailers, which I wouldn’t mind so much to watch, but commercials) before the movie starts, it’s VERY annoying and I feel a bit ripped-off, after all, I didn’t pay 10 dollars to see chewing-gum and shoe commercials.
UK Newsnight covered the UK launch of the iTunes store yesterday, in it the Newsnight interviewer asked Jobs what he thought would be the future of Apple if iTunes failed. At that point the Newsnight crew were ejected from the event by an Apple rep.
iTunes have the advantage of being the first major brand in the marked. However they will soon have a lot of competition from the likes of MS/Sony/etc. Hopefully more competition will mean lower prices. With the current situation record labels are actually making more money per album sale than they ever did from selling CDs so hopefully there is some leeway for cutting prices.
I think it’s only a matter of culture access.
Everyone has the right to consume culture, be it music, movies or books.
If someone doesn’t have the money to buy the volume of culture that he needs, he should have the right to just download it. This is way simple to me.
Three issues:
1) Steve and movies – people who critique steve of being oblivious to commercials (very annoying IMHO) fail to see that steve is a businessman! He cannot (unless he is an idiot) slam the door behind him by making remarks that might hurt him in the future. Who knows, maybe in the future, when everyone has cable/DSL (or the next standard whichever it might be) apple might want to launch its own buy-a-movie or rent-a-movie feature, think about it — digital hub
2) Competition to the iPod, yes there will be competition, but up to now what have we had in terms of cheaper alternatives? by and large you’ve got devices that only work on Windows based machines, and they do not have a lot of memory! I see devices with 128 or 256MB…well woop-dee-doo 🙂 I have memory stick duos for my p800 that are that big and I cannot fit that many songs into them. I think that by the time others catch up Apple will have the next best thing out
3) Piracy is bad but think about this:
a) CDs are expensive, their logic for their pricing? “it is a new technlogy”…ummmmm… CDs have been around forever and no one buys tapes anymore. LPs are limited and those are for the DJs and afficionados of vinyl. CDs are the mainstream thing now and prices should go down.
b) Same holds for DVDs. At least in the USA I can no longer go into a store and buy a VHS tape, everything is on DVD! DVD is no longer the “new” format which early adopters have to pay top dollar for, it is the accepted norm, yet still (single) DVDs (not the boxed sets) cost 25-35 USD each! rip off say I.
c) Fairer Pricing example: South Korea. I’ve bought *legal* albums from Korea for $9 each (new albums not old ones), 5 CD compilations were 25-30 USD (yes legal CD compilations with cover art and everything)
Conclusion? Piracy is bad – but if you put yourself in a place that you do not provide alternatives for consumers there will be three kinds of consumers, (1) the dopes that buy your overprices product, (2) the protesters that boycott it-like I do or (3) the pirates that pirate it.
Same holds for DVDs. At least in the USA I can no longer go into a store and buy a VHS tape, everything is on DVD! DVD is no longer the “new” format which early adopters have to pay top dollar for, it is the accepted norm, yet still (single) DVDs (not the boxed sets) cost 25-35 USD each! rip off say I.
I don’t know where you buy your DVD’s (probably Blockbuster), but I have never paid even $20 for a DVD, in fact I just bought LOTR Return of the King for $12.99 at WalMart, and none of their DVD’s are priced over $20.
draft some players in the 50 USD range and up, because otherwise his music servers will be idle once MS is ready for show time with their own range of players.
You really think Microsoft will come out with a $50 music player with the storage of an ipod mini AND the ease of use?
Keep dreaming!
I don’t know where you buy your DVD’s (probably Blockbuster), but I have never paid even $20 for a DVD, in fact I just bought LOTR Return of the King for $12.99 at WalMart, and none of their DVD’s are priced over $20.
I do not know if it is true of all DVDs, but my friend used to purchase his DVDs from WalMart (2 movies for $15.99) until he noticed that they did not contain alot of the extras that usually come with the DVD. He longer buys his DVDs from WalMart unless he happens to come across a movie that he has been looking for and cannot find anywhere else.
“It’s big, yeah. And that’s what we compete with really. We compete really with piracy.”
Not true. Apples sells iPods. Pirated music can be listened to on an iPod. There is mutual interest there. Not to mention that I heard Apple does not get to keep any of the $.99 per song it sells in iTunes. So as long as piracy keeps selling iPods, piracy is good for Apple.
“I think it’s only a matter of culture access.
Everyone has the right to consume culture, be it music, movies or books.
If someone doesn’t have the money to buy the volume of culture that he needs, he should have the right to just download it. This is way simple to me.”
Except then there is will be a lot of people with low work ethics because they know if they don’t have the money, things will be free anyway.
As for prices being too high, look at whos raising them. It’s not the music or movie industry. If I can go to Best Buy and get a CD for $11.99 and the same one costs $17.99 across the street at Warehouse Music, guess whos fault that is, and who is making a giant profit off it. Also note that it costs about $8 to get a CD made and in stores, and about $10 for a DVD. Then the makers have to profit off that, so a $12 DVD and a $15-17 DVD isn’t a horrible price. If you spend as much as some of you say you do on CDs and DVDs I think you need to start choosing where you shop a bit more cautiously.
“Not true. Apples sells iPods. Pirated music can be listened to on an iPod. There is mutual interest there. Not to mention that I heard Apple does not get to keep any of the $.99 per song it sells in iTunes. So as long as piracy keeps selling iPods, piracy is good for Apple.”
Apple has been profiting of each iTMS sale for almost 2 quarters now. iTMS competes with piracy, iPod or no iPod, becuase none of the other stores are anywhere near it.
“draft some players in the 50 USD range and up, because otherwise his music servers will be idle once MS is ready for show time with their own range of players.”
Can you name a single thing that MS has succeeded in when they weren’t a monopoly? ie- pretty much everything they do flops with the exception of their core stranglehold markets, Windows and Office.
I simply read the interview already. There is nothing about computing. So,…
Why our editor picked it up on the OS news.
“At an Apple financial analyst conference on Wednesday CEO Steve Jobs admitted that Apple makes no revenue from the online download service, the iTunes Music Store, that he launched in April. As iTMS is the leading download service, with 80 per cent market share (or so Jobs claimed), where’s your 99 cents per song going?”
This was taken from an artical posted in November of 2003. If you do a search on google you will find tons of them.
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/8407
You can see the newsnight programme featuring the jobs interview here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/tvseq/newsnight/newsnight.ram
“As for prices being too high, look at whos raising them. It’s not the music or movie industry. If I can go to Best Buy and get a CD for $11.99 and the same one costs $17.99 across the street at Warehouse Music, guess whos fault that is, and who is making a giant profit off it.”
You’re off the mark on this one too. Stores like Best Buy have admited to taking a loss or breaking even on many CD’s just to get customers in their stores to buy other things. A store that sells only CD’s does not have this luxury and is why many of them are either closing down or trying to expand there inventory.
“Also note that it costs about $8 to get a CD made and in stores, and about $10 for a DVD. Then the makers have to profit off that, so a $12 DVD and a $15-17 DVD isn’t a horrible price. If you spend as much as some of you say you do on CDs and DVDs I think you need to start choosing where you shop a bit more cautiously.”
Where did you get this information from?
it’s too bad he didn’t use the $480+ million he got from the NEXT acquisition and bought beos, and built mac os with be os core, and next-step openstep add-ons
Downloading movies IS much more involved and time consuming than downloading music. It’s also much less convenient. Regardless of whether you know how to jump on usenet and download an SVCD rip of a DVD in 3 hours and burn it onto a few discs.. Downloading an mp3 takes less than a minute and the format is universally supported in just about any OS and on any device. Jobs is also correct on the variety of distribution options for movies that don’t exist for music.
I wonder(ok I’m just wondering,,,dreaming, I just woke up). I wonder if Steve was ever free from Apple. If Microsoft would offer him a job. Like a mac/windows product designer or something along those lines.
I know it’s far-feched, or is it? I’ve only had one coffee so far………I’m not thinking on all cylinders..
Actually, Apple did offer BeOS 125 million bucks, but they were refused. BSD/NeXTSTEP is working fine though.
quote: I don’t know where you buy your DVD’s (probably Blockbuster), but I have never paid even $20 for a DVD, in fact I just bought LOTR Return of the King for $12.99 at WalMart, and none of their DVD’s are priced ove
I buy from amazon.com, bestbuy, virgin just to name a few
here are some links to enlighten you:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006ADE2/qid=108740…
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00009TB5G/qid=108740…
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000DZ3D6/qid=108740…
Now grantes 35 USD not that common in the states, I was in france a couple of weeks ago and “normal” movie prices seemed to cap off at 33 euro.
Please note the MSRP on the DVDs and not the sellers price.
“Actually, Apple did offer BeOS 125 million bucks, but they were refused. BSD/NeXTSTEP is working fine though.”
BeOS should of took the offer because at the time it wasn’t even worth that much as a company.
“This was taken from an artical posted in November of 2003. If you do a search on google you will find tons of them.”
Go check out their last shareholder discussion about it. I think it was in January, and they announced they had just started making profit.
” You’re off the mark on this one too. Stores like Best Buy have admited to taking a loss or breaking even on many CD’s just to get customers in their stores to buy other things. A store that sells only CD’s does not have this luxury and is why many of them are either closing down or trying to expand there inventory.”
Hadn’t heard about that.
“Where did you get this information from?”
Work. We can even do them cheaper, depending on the format, content, and quality needs.
“I wonder(ok I’m just wondering,,,dreaming, I just woke up). I wonder if Steve was ever free from Apple. If Microsoft would offer him a job. Like a mac/windows product designer or something along those lines. ”
He’d probably turn them down, he doesn’t seem like the type to work for other people.
“Also note that it costs about $8 to get a CD made and in stores, and about $10 for a DVD. Then the makers have to profit off that, so a $12 DVD and a $15-17 DVD isn’t a horrible price. If you spend as much as some of you say you do on CDs and DVDs I think you need to start choosing where you shop a bit more cautiously.”
Don’t know where you got the numbers from, doesn’t really matter… But I don’t think $12-17 is outrageous to pay for a DVD. In that price you’re paying for the actors, film, support staff, equipment, advertising, mastering, duplication, etc etc. Just because these people do something that is fun and entertaining doesn’t mean they should work for free.
And not having money doesn’t give you the excuse to steal from artists. If you have no $ you probably shouldn’t have a computer in front of you, with a DVD burner enjoying a high speed connection while downloading movies your too cheap to buy. I’m sorry if you’re soo broke you have a lot more problems than worrying about downloading the latest DVD.
And now to the point of the Article. Jobs, you’re doing a good job and I personally look forward to seeing many years of great design and products from Apple!
Can you name a single thing that MS has succeeded in when they weren’t a monopoly? ie- pretty much everything they do flops with the exception of their core stranglehold markets, Windows and Office.
Well, they didn’t become a monopoly by already being a monopoly you know. But disregarding that, how about XBOX? Their keyboard/mouse line is also pretty successfull, and that really isn’t helped by them being a monopoly. Their PC game devision doesn’t do all that badly either.
Actually the price for LOTR that is shown on Amazon is a good price, but you need to look again, I believe that there are 4 DVD’s in that package, not the Single DVD you said earlier. And who cares what the MSRP is, if nobody pays that much then I can’t really say something costs that much. Hell I could say the MSRP on my cell phone is $199.00 but I got it for free, so doe that make my cell phone overpriced?
“And now to the point of the Article. Jobs, you’re doing a good job and I personally look forward to seeing many years of great design and products from Apple!”
Yeah I listened to the keynote from january a few weeks ago and Jobs said Apple planned on releasing new products this year(anniversary year).
The Motion app is such a cool app. I would like to see more pro-apps like that. Maybe a paint and photo-editing program, that would be a few steps down from PS. I really think Apple needs a product like that especially for kids in schools, given the complexity of Photoshop. Wasn’t there a mac-paint before? Way before my mac-days.
“Well, they didn’t become a monopoly by already being a monopoly you know.”
Its not a coincidence that they got a monopoly in office software because of the monopoly in operating systems. It all harkens back to the operating system. Now that we’ve established that… its important to recognise that Microsoft stole code and UI concepts from Apple.
“how about XBOX?”
It only pulled its first small profit last quarter.
“Their keyboard/mouse line is also pretty successfull”
They dont make those. They’re just rebranding other company’s products.
“Their PC game devision doesn’t do all that badly either.”
Remember, they didn’t make the game, they bought out already-sucessful game companies.
“I wonder(ok I’m just wondering,,,dreaming, I just woke up). I wonder if Steve was ever free from Apple. If Microsoft would offer him a job. Like a mac/windows product designer or something along those lines.”
If Bill’s ego ever allowed it, MS might offer, although somehow I doubt that Steve’s Napoleonic nature would be appreciated at hive-mind headquarters. but Steve would never do it. He likes to F with Bill too much and working for his company would take that away from him.
‘”Actually, Apple did offer BeOS 125 million bucks, but they were refused. BSD/NeXTSTEP is working fine though.”
BeOS should of took the offer because at the time it wasn’t even worth that much as a company.’
A nice idea and I loved Be, but I’m convinced that had that happened Apple would probably not exist anymore. Apple had no clear direction and their product line was a mess in those days. Obviously Be’s managment team had some of the same issues (BeIA anyone?). Steve’s dictator mentality was exactly what was needed to resurrect and refocus Apple.
“But disregarding that, how about XBOX? Their keyboard/mouse line is also pretty successfull, and that really isn’t helped by them being a monopoly. Their PC game devision doesn’t do all that badly either.”
I guess you haven’t looked at their annual report for 2003.
“Revenue from consumer hardware and software and PC games declined $14 million or 1% in fiscal 2003. Operating loss for fiscal 2003 increased 6% from the prior year as the product costs associated with the increased Xbox console sales and increased marketing expense more than offset the 12% increase in revenue.”
“Or they’re just cheap. Not having money doesn’t make it okay to steal. If you think they charge to much, stop buying them, but don’t steal them. They are going to charge as much as they can get, that’s how business works.”
Careful, once you open up that can of worms. We live in a material world where not all is equal. Once you’re start discussing what’s okay and what’s not, you’d better be able to see it from all viewpoints. Is theft really so different from what the business world does? If they don’t like somebody stealing their product, they don’t have to make the product one might go so far as to say. And then you get into capitalism vs. socialism in a heartbeat and after that you get into the question of is life fair at all? Certainly fairer for some than others.
No, this is not about fair or what’s okay. This is about the inevitable. As long as we lust/desire for anything there will be theft. Right or wrong go out the window, there is only “how it is.” I have ripped copy of the first Harry Potter that somebody made for me. Should I feel guilty? Why? (Ironically enough, I’m going to go out and get the special edition so I can the tour of Hogwarts that doesn’t come with this one.)
“We live in a material world where not all is equal.”
Nor should it be. If I’m smarter than someone else or better athletically for example, I should be able to take advantage of those attributes for my own benefit. Economic privilige applies here too, I think.
“Once you’re start discussing what’s okay and what’s not, you’d better be able to see it from all viewpoints.”
In order to do that you’d need to be a god. So, are you saying only gods can truly say what is right or wrong? (and yes, I realize that I am the one that’s saying that not you, but how else would you see anything from all points of view) as an atheist I would have to say that not only do I find that a tad offensive but also incorrect.
“Is theft really so different from what the business world does?”
so if I see my someone else stealing that must make it ok for me to do it as well? I’m all for anarchy, but justifying your behavior by pointing out that someone else did the same thing is a pretty weak argument. Do you really lack the ethical prowess to determine right and wrong for yourself?
“If they don’t like somebody stealing their product, they don’t have to make the product one might go so far as to say.”
That’s just silly.
“after that you get into the question of is life fair at all? Certainly fairer for some than others.”
Again, harsh but this is as it should be. it seems to me the idea that there should be some sort all encompassing level playing field for everyone a bit naive and very unrealistic.
“No, this is not about fair or what’s okay. This is about the inevitable. As long as we lust/desire for anything there will be theft. Right or wrong go out the window, there is only “how it is.” I have ripped copy of the first Harry Potter that somebody made for me. Should I feel guilty? Why?”
NOW you want to be a realist. Right or wrong do not go out the window. You are simply choosing to ignore them because you find that they inconvenience your behavior. I’m not trying to take the moral ground here. I’m no innocent and I’ve violated copyright laws more than a few times. the difference between us is that I don’t try to delude myself into believing that doing it is OK because “Well, everybody else is doing it.” or “That’s the way it is so I might as well join in.” Why do you feel the need to try and rationalize away right and wrong? could it be because you know deep down that it is stealing and wrong and you need to justify it for yourself? Just food for thought.
“Nor should it be. If I’m smarter than someone else or better athletically for example, I should be able to take advantage of those attributes for my own benefit. Economic privilige applies here too, I think.”
So if you are born with some superior talent to mine, you are entitled to more, though it be no fault of my own. That’s fair?
“so if I see my someone else stealing that must make it ok for me to do it as well? I’m all for anarchy, but justifying your behavior by pointing out that someone else did the same thing is a pretty weak argument. Do you really lack the ethical prowess to determine right and wrong for yourself?”
No, only that’s it’s entirely a matter of viewpoint. What kind of “ethical prowess” allows you to decide for the entire human race what’s right and what’s wrong?
“Again, harsh but this is as it should be. it seems to me the idea that there should be some sort all encompassing level playing field for everyone a bit naive and very unrealistic.”
The fact that there is no level playing field makes it assured that it’s is survival of the fittest, which is also a way of saying “what can I get away with”. If a corporation can dodge paying taxes through a loophole, they will do it. They’re not breaking the law, but they are cheating the government and the rest of the taxpayers nonetheless.
“Why do you feel the need to try and rationalize away right and wrong? could it be because you know deep down that it is stealing and wrong and you need to justify it for yourself? Just food for thought.”
I don’t justify it. I just say again, right and wrong is entirely subjective. It certainly doesn’t stop you from violating copyright laws. Why not? Obviously you don’t think it’s wrong. You make a big deal out of your ethical prowess and still steal. And you think I’m hypocritical??
So if you are born with some superior talent to mine, you are entitled to more, though it be no fault of my own. That’s fair?
I am entitled to use the attributes I possess to my advantage. Are you saying I am not entitled to attend a superior school if I possess the intellect or the resources? Should I not become a professional athlete despite the fact that I possess the desired physical attributes because others do not? My point is that life by it’s very nature is not fair; it is largely a matter of luck of the draw. I’m saying that your statement that “We live in a material world where not all is equal.” cannot be viewed as a justification for theft because inequity is an element of the human condition and of life itself.
“What kind of “ethical prowess” allows you to decide for the entire human race what’s right and what’s wrong?”
None whatsoever, but if you’re trying to say that you can use moral relativism to justify stealing from others I would argue that you are the one who needs to be careful about opening a can of worms. Would you argue that you cannot make a judgment about whether or not someone committed murder or robbery because since it is impossible for you completely examine all points of view (i.e. you can’t decide for the entire human race) that it is therefore impossible for you to say whether or not a crime has been committed?
“it assured that it’s is survival of the fittest, which is also a way of saying “what can I get away with”. If a corporation can dodge paying taxes through a loophole, they will do it. They’re not breaking the law, but they are cheating the government and the rest of the taxpayers nonetheless.”
I hardly think survival of the fittest equates to doing whatever you can get away with. Survival of the fittest just states that those best adapted to their environment are the most likely to succeed. as a mechanism of evolution, it does not take into account cognitive thought. As an individual, are you able to determine when an action you take is right or wrong? Isn’t this ability an essential element of what makes human beings so different from other animals? Whether or not you can get away with something is immaterial; it doesn’t change the rightness or wrongness of an action. This is true of corporations as well as individuals. In addition, whether or not a particular corporation takes right or wrong actions bears no weight on the rightness or wrongness of similar actions taken by anyone outside of that corporation. Would you say that because ACME Corp. got away with tax evasion you should as well?
“I don’t justify it. I just say again, right and wrong is entirely subjective. It certainly doesn’t stop you from violating copyright laws. Why not? Obviously you don’t think it’s wrong. You make a big deal out of your ethical prowess and still steal. And you think I’m hypocritical?”
Just because it is subjective doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You’ve missed my point entirely. I am not trying to take the high moral ground here, I’m simply pointing out that your arguments are weak and self-serving. Perhaps I misunderstand, but what I gather from your original post is that:
a)Life is not fair, therefore it’s acceptable to take things you didn’t pay for.
b)Fairness is subjective therefore it is impossible to make any judgements about what is right and what is wrong.
c)Theft (or copyright infringment if you prefer) is inevitable, therefore it is not wrong.
d)Right and wrong go out the window because of desire.
e)That’s just how it is so anything I do is OK.
As I said, I am not trying to take the high moral ground here. I have no business doing so and I have no high moral ground to take. I do not possess superior ethical prowess. The difference between us is that I’m willing to accept and admit that my actions are wrong as opposed to coming up with a bunch of poorly reasoned rationalizations that would be insulting to the intellect of the average child.
“Don’t know where you got the numbers from, doesn’t really matter… But I don’t think $12-17 is outrageous to pay for a DVD. In that price you’re paying for the actors, film, support staff, equipment, advertising, mastering, duplication, etc etc. Just because these people do something that is fun and entertaining doesn’t mean they should work for free.”
I am not claiming that they should work for free, where I get the numbers does matter and I think that it is outrageous to make people pay more for DVDs than they pay for VHS. The “new technology rule” does not apply!
Look at the MSRP of this VHS: 9.94
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6304466498/qid=108742…
Look at the MSRP for the DVD version: 14.95
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0792844890/qid%3D1087425…
Why pay much more? THAT is what I am asking actors, doctors, set managers get paid THE SAME whether I buy the VHS or DVD, so why do I have to pay more for DVD given that the DVD is *the standard* now, VHS is the almost extinct dinosaur and given these terms it should cost less to make DVDs, thus cost less to the consumer.
“Why pay much more? THAT is what I am asking actors, doctors, set managers get paid THE SAME whether I buy the VHS or DVD, so why do I have to pay more for DVD given that the DVD is *the standard* now, VHS is the almost extinct dinosaur and given these terms it should cost less to make DVDs, thus cost less to the consumer.”
The higher cost of DVDs has nothing to do with how much they cost to make relative to VHS. The price of VHS went down because it’s an old technology. Plain and simple. The price something sells for isn’t based completely on the price to make it. Economics is much more complicated than that. It costs more to make a cassette tape than a CD, so should CDs all the sudden cost less? Of course not. They are of higher quality and more in demand than cassettes.
Now to touch on the whole right and wrong issue. Stealing is wrong according to every society in history, and all current societies, cultures, and religions. Life is unfair, that’s a given. What matters is how you react to that fact. Survival of the fittest is more relevant now than ever because of how complicated our world has become. That doesn’t have anything to do with ‘what you can get away with’. If some huge company can get away with tax fraud and things of that nature, then they are much more fit that you or I. Now here’s the difference. You’re reaction is to steal from them, not because you think they are stealing from you, but because you can get away with it. My reaction is to learn to do something useful, making what I do worth a lot of money, and therefore making me more than fit for survival in todays world. At the end of the day each of us will be in very different positions because of our actions and reactions, though. The company will have gotten away with whatever they can, and will have a lot of money and a very nice lifestyle. I will have a great job and a lot of money and a nicer lifestyle than I started with. You will be living the same way you are right now (supposedly without enough money to rent a movie), just getting away with whatever you can instead of doing something worthwhile for society, and in turn making yourself more fit to survive. And that is survival of the fittest.
There’s no doubt about that… there’s no real money there. Far and away the leader, but how many did tunes did they sell? 10 Million I believe. Even if every penny of those sales went to Apples coffers (probably only 10% actually do, but..) then that’s only $10 Million.
Apple is probably a $2 or $3 billion dollar company. That’s nothing, that’s honestly simply “something to sneeze at”. If Apple still has that billion or so sitting around in “cash” they are probably making more than $100 Million in interest a year!
In spite of Apple being “saved” by Jobs from the Amelio regime, the fact is that the company had double the gross revenue under Amelio than it does under Jobs. Odd, no?
“Apple is probably a $2 or $3 billion dollar company. That’s nothing, that’s honestly simply “something to sneeze at.”
$2 or $3 billion? Try $12.5 billion as of today.
http://www.forbes.com/finance/mktguideapps/compinfo/CompanyTearshee…
http://money.cnn.com/news/companies/research/research.html?pg=sn&sy…
And $2 or $3 billion dollars is nothing? You realize of course that you are essentially saying that the companies that comprise mid-cap funds (which generally come in somewhere between $500 million and $5 billion) are nothing, right? There are quite a few fund managers that would be very surprised to hear that. The vast majority of them.
“In spite of Apple being “saved” by Jobs from the Amelio regime, the fact is that the company had double the gross revenue under Amelio than it does under Jobs. Odd, no?”
Could you provide a source for these numbers? Actually don’t. It doesn’t really matter. From a financial point of view, the major problem under Amelio was not Apple’s declining revenue stream, it was the fact that they were hemorraging money out of every orifice. Revenue shmevenue. They were not profitable under Amelio and had not been for several years. Jobs returned Apple to profitability less than 2 years after returning to the company and they have remained so more quarters than not ever since – including the recent downturn period in which only two hardware manufacturers turned a profit: Dell and Apple. I’d say that qualifies as a save (minus the qualifying quotation marks). So yes; odd? No.
“There’s no doubt about that… there’s no real money there. Far and away the leader, but how many did tunes did they sell? 10 Million I believe. Even if every penny of those sales went to Apples coffers (probably only 10% actually do, but..) then that’s only $10 Million.”
Actually the last time they mentioned it it was 85 million I believe.
“Apple is probably a $2 or $3 billion dollar company. That’s nothing, that’s honestly simply “something to sneeze at”. If Apple still has that billion or so sitting around in “cash” they are probably making more than $100 Million in interest a year!”
They are well over a $10 billion company, I’ve seen reports ranging from $12 billion to $17 billion, and that “billion or so” sitting around is more like $4.5 billion in the bank.
“In spite of Apple being “saved” by Jobs from the Amelio regime, the fact is that the company had double the gross revenue under Amelio than it does under Jobs. Odd, no?”
Under Amelio they also had over $1 billion in debt and they were sinking fast. On top of that they didn’t have an up to date operating system, and if you think the hardware is expensive now, go look at what it cost then.
Come on people, if you are going to post numbers at least look one of them up.
Fact: Apple has about $7 billion in yearly revenues.
Fact: Apple has a market cap of about $12.5 billion (as of 6/17/04). Market cap and revenues are not the same thing, by the way.
Fact: Apple has sold more than 85 million songs (not the pulled-from-the-air 10 million figure stated by Matt Fuerst) in a little more than a year.
Fact: Apple is currently selling close to 3 million songs per week, which puts it at over 150 million per year. And that is just the U.S. market. It remains to be seen how much iTMS Europe will contribute to the song count.
Fact: Apple now makes a small profit from iTunes Music Store sales. The earlier link to a Nov 2003 article where Jobs claims no profit is already outdated, as Apple announced a small profit in iTMS in April 2004.
http://www.beaufortgazette.com/24hour/technology/story/1326209p-849…
Fact: Microsoft never said they will come out with a $50 device that has the same functionality and capacity as a $499 iPod. What Microsoft said is that there will be a line of music players whose prices START at $50. (And we’ve seen how well those $50 64 MB Flash MP3 players are selling, right?)
It’s amazing the quantity of totally baseless claims about Apple that have been posted in the last three pages. If people don’t like Apple, fine, but deal with some reality, please.
“It’s amazing the quantity of totally baseless claims about Apple that have been posted in the last three pages. If people don’t like Apple, fine, but deal with some reality, please. ”
that’ll never happen. Given that the internet has essentially become pretty much the sum total of human knowledge and experience, it used to surprise me how people that are apparently web-capable enough to post to a message board are so completely incapable of using google for 30 seconds before publicly displaying their stupidity spouting this kind of crap. not so much any more though. Now I think it must have much more to do with willful ignorance (at best).
shameful really.