Redhat Magazine has a good introduction to Fedora core 3 for end users.
An introduction to Fedora core 3
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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It’s new :
http://www.redhat.com/magazine/
Nice FUD killer, now I can just post a link when uninformed people say yum is slow, fedora doesn’t do anything but package other GPL software, etc. I think this is the best distro out there for linux geeks bar none. We all have our preferences, but most just love being at the front of major improvements.
” fedora doesn’t do anything but package other GPL software, ”
you dont require this particular article to prove this wrong
the list of redhat stuff thats shared upstream and eventually shared by all distros is huge
lets see a few
1) linux kernel – rmap,nptl,scheduler improvements,drivers,tcp/ip stack,selinux work and so on
2)gnome – metacity, vino, gtk, pango, hig work, gconf
3) gcj work
4) gcc – lately ssa work leading to 4.0
5) mozilla – integration work with gnome, pango etc
many more…
I never understood why they cant trim down the default services/daemons. If you select a standard desktop install why are things lile sendmail installed and started by default? Anybody who needs it knows how to install it later on anyway. This adds to everybodys perception that fedora is bloated in contrast to some other distros (e.g. debian, ubuntu).
I also dont understand why they havent selected a default rpm frontend yet. Who needs yum AND up2date (and apt)?
Apart from that fedora is a really nice distro that offers a nicely integrated desktop with the latest software.
Your coment is a FUD killer.
> doesn’t do anything but package other GPL software, etc.
Bullshit.
ext2 online resize is mostly Red Hat. Tested with FC3.
SeLinux targeted policy is Red Hat. Tested with FC3.
ext3 reservation is mostly Red Hat. Tested with FC3.
ext3 with htree is mostly Red Hat. Tested with RH9.
…
ext3 stuff is now upstream (2.6.10-rc1).
ext3 with htree is upstream since 2.6 but developed/tested with RH9 (Linux 2.4).
Get a vanilla linux 2.6.9 and do :
$ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep “@redhat” | wc -l
677
$ … @mandrake
6
$ … @debian
141
$ … @gentoo
0
$ … @suse
657
With the upstream glibc-20041021T0701
$ … @redhat
4760
$ … @mandrake
24
$ … @debian
98
$ … @gentoo
4
$ … @suse
1339
With the upstream gcc-3.4.2-20041018
$ … @redhat
7995
$ … @mandrake
4
$ … @debian
64
$ … @gentoo
0
$ … @suse
2028
Do the same with … Gnome 🙂
Red Hat doesn’t work on KDE 🙁
Overall I have to say I like Fedora Core. A couple of things still bug me:
I don’t like how Nautilus treats the desktop and folder windows differently. When new icons appear on the desktop, after I download stuff or media gets automounted, the icons get placed in random locations, sometimes overlapping each other, or sometimes they don’t show up at all. I was going a little crazy before I discovered the Ctrl-R shortcut for reloading the desktop and making invisible icons appear. The folder windows behave just fine. Icons stay in grids and maintain their sort order. I want the desktop to behave exactly like that.
There must be an easier way to keep my Evolution calendars, contacts, and tasks synchronized between two computers. Right now I upload the contacts.vcf, calendar.ics, and tasks.ics files to the FastMail file server and try to keep track by sending myself emails and it’s a big pain.
OK. Those aren’t Fedora problems but Nautilus and Evolution problems. Either way, annoying.
More on that Evolution problem.
Maybe it wouldn’t be quite so bad if there was an obvious “Export Contacts, Calendar, and Tasks” menu item or button somewhere. But there isn’t! I highlight my contacts and use “Save as VCard…” in the File menu. For the calendar and tasks, I have to dig down in my .evolution folder and look for those damn .ics files. All guesswork. And not very user friendly AT ALL.
Wait a second. I know RedHat does leaps and bounds for the community, I’m saying this is a good paper to show some of those improvements. I’m pretty involved with Fedora so I’m quite aware of new developments, and what-not just that not many other people are.
Yeah, but sendmail has a use even if you’re not an ISP. You get your log file alerts mailed to root@localhost when cron runs. The default setup doesn’t use much memory because its slimmed down so much, doesn’t even accept connections from anything other than localhost anyway. It’s not as bad as it seems so I leave it running.
Thanks for the info about sendmail. Didnt know that.
YES, Fedora/RedHat is not like Solaris 🙂
“I never understood why they cant trim down the default services/daemons. If you select a standard desktop install why are things lile sendmail installed and started by default? Anybody who needs it knows how to install it later on anyway. This adds to everybodys perception that fedora is bloated in contrast to some other distros (e.g. debian, ubuntu).”
Unix systems are supposed to have an MTA. Besides, Debian turns on Exim by default.
A little bit oftopic, but I saw gnome creates automaticly device icons on the desktop when you plugin in a thumbdrive or camera for example (reading the article). Does KDE support this HAL story (at least could not find it)?
“Does KDE support this HAL story (at least could not find it)?”
yes it does but its preliminary. read dot.kde.org kde cvs digest for more info on that.
”
I also dont understand why they havent selected a default rpm frontend yet. Who needs yum AND up2date (and apt)? ”
yum will be propogated and the default front end in the future but its just very much in the flux now. yum was horribly slow in previous fc releases. besides up2date can use both yum and apt repositories so its required for some
Yes it does, but only in KDE CVS since it is under development. It has already a working media:/ kioslave and a KDE Volume Manager (similar to gvm).
Yep. Both Red Hat and SuSE are big enough and rich enough to employ lots of people who do great work on upstream stuff. None of the other distros you mentioned are (Debian, of course, doesn’t make enough money to pay anyone, which is sort of the point; Mandrake just aren’t big enough, they barely make enough to pay the people who work on the Mandrake stuff). Gentoo hackers are too busy compiling to do any work
. /troll
but, YUM is slow… it is also awkward.
“but, YUM is slow… it is also awkward.”
have you used the one in fc3. whats awkard about it?
Just finished migrating another server to FreeBSD from Fedora. Got tired of the messy file structure in RedHat, the constant need for updates and upgrades for Fedora, and the constant breakage of configurations between distribution upgrades. Been replacing Fedora with FreeBSD and I’ve been loving every moment of it.
“Just finished migrating another server to FreeBSD from Fedora. Got tired of the messy file structure in RedHat, the constant need for updates and upgrades for Fedora, and the constant breakage of configurations between distribution upgrades.”
1) there is nothing messy about the file structure. its follows fhs
2) you are required to upgrade just because there is one
3) there is no use complaining so vaguely
4) fedora isnt the only linux is town. there are good alternatives like ubuntu for example
5) if you are done with fedora dont bother commenting on threads with it. be done with freebsd or whatever,.
“1) there is nothing messy about the file structure. its follows fhs ”
actually, it is very messy. I get dizzy looking at it. It isn’t a problem with Linux in general, it is with RedHat. I like Debian’s file structure a lot.
“2) you are required to upgrade just because there is one”
Yes I am. They drop security support.
“3) there is no use complaining so vaguely”
I was in a hurry.
“4) fedora isnt the only linux is town. there are good alternatives like ubuntu for example ”
I know there are alternatives. I was debating whether I should go with Debian or FreeBSD. I chose FreeBSD merely on the fact that I got tired of Fedora and didn’t wish to wait any longer for Debian to be released. Ubuntu is a very poor choice for server deploymet for two reasons. 1) It is relatively new and thus has no track records (don’t know what they are going to do with the distribution or even if they will update it in a proper manner), 2) Even though they support their release for 18 months, when upgrading, they force you to go through all the intermediary releases.
“5) if you are done with fedora dont bother commenting on threads with it. be done with freebsd or whatever,.”
I think Fedora has major problems that need to be addressed. Since it was a review of Fedora, I think it is ok to list my complaints and why I moved away from it.
“Yes I am. They drop security support. ”
check fedoralegacy.org. 1 1/2 years of support there
“I was in a hurry. ”
noone can fix these problems then
“I know there are alternatives. I was debating whether I should go with Debian or FreeBSD.”
what about centos.org?
“) Even though they support their release for 18 months, when upgrading, they force you to go through all the intermediary releases.
”
not true.
”
I think Fedora has major problems that need to be addressed. Since it was a review of Fedora, I think it is ok to list my complaints and why I moved away from it.”
my problem was your complains were too vague for anyone to get anything useful from them. Of course if you had specific complains they should have been in bugzilla.redhat.com not in osnews.com comments section unless they are political or idealogical
My problem with FC3 is that its so damn slow. I have turned off unneeded services, recompiled the kernel to support my processor and enabled the pre-emptive feature of the kernel and its still extremely slow. My system is somewhat modern too. A 2.2Ghz athlon xp with 512MB of RAM. I’m about to ditch it for another distro if I can’t figure out how to make it go faster.
Check the hard disk settings with hdparm, make sure DMA and 32-bit transfers are on…
“Check the hard disk settings with hdparm, make sure DMA and 32-bit transfers are on…”
Thanks but I already checked that out. Hdparm showed that the drive settings were optimal from the beginning. I think FC3 is just slow. I’m seriously considering ditching it and moving to something like gentoo as soon as I have the time to run the install.
Holy Mackerel. I’ve seen the future and it is Fedora (I’m thinking: hotplug, udev, D-BUS, HAL, and gamin). USB thumbdrives mounting on the desktop when you plug them in. Gnome 2.8. Plus yum and all the great config utils that come with the system… Geez. This is an MS-killer if I’ve ever seen one.
I just downloaded the FC3 core iso’s at work yesterday (had to hit a few different mirrors though) and will be installing today. Yippee!
Y’know, I’m starting to see why there’s some resistance in the GNU/Linux community to distros like Fedora. You’ve got this whole culture built around knowing the peculiarities and ins-n-outs of GNU/Linux — folks who are quite different than the MCSE’s. Now here comes Fedora (and some other distro’s like it — I’m just using Fedora as an example) making it easier and easier to admin your system… It’s improving to the point where, pretty soon, you can just do what you do on MS OS’s: click around in the GUI dialogs until you get it working. I think there are portions of the community who are disconcerted by the idea that that day is coming…
Whoops. typo:
> This is an MS-killer if I’ve ever seen one.
should’ve been:
“IMO, this is on its way to being an MS-killer.”
There is a problem with hal :
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=138148
This affect a small number of configuration.
i guess you never tried Ubuntu? Ubuntu has these features, and more…
If you want a really fast distro, I suggest you take a look at VidaLinux’s VLOS 1.0.
It is a gentoo based distro that is optimized for P4 and AMD.
Package updates are done via Porthole which is somewhat similar to APT. Package installation is easy but somewhat slow because they are compiled on the fly for your system. Once done though, you fly.
The only problem I had with it was that my usb printer was not detected on install.
I had to manually start and configure cups.
I highly recommend it.
runs great for me…
no problems installing or running Core-3…
Just downloaded the iso’s, checked md5’s, burned the CD’s, mediacheck’d ’em, and installed. I’m very impressed so far. I haven’t done too much with it yet, but one thing was plugging in my hfs+ formatted thumbdrive. It mounted automatically and an icon showed up on the desktop for me so moving files back and forth between FC3 and my Mac OS X PowerBook is a breeze.
I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship…
The touted file selector is wretched. It doesn’t show any . directories and there’s no way to turn than on. And if you cache two directories with the same name (such as /home/tmp and /tmp) then it displays them with the same name instead of the entire pathname. Did anyone use it before they shipped it?