TuxMagazine posted a review of Libranet and here is its follow up article.
Libranet review at TuxMagazine
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
ok, libranet is great, and i used to like it a lot. but now with ubuntu (a distro with huge community and $$$ backing), i dont need any other debian-based distro anymore.
sadly, but libranet will die soon!
The are endless Debian derivatives: Ubuntu, Mepis, knoppix, kanotix, Xandros…
But Libranet will not die. The Debian poweruser likes the flexibility, the degree of control and the extra tools he/she gets from Libranet.
yes, Ubuntu will. It is nothing but recompiled Debian. It does not add anything. No admin tools, the same installer, all it is does is add X and Gnome to the default install. Real innovative. If Libranet dies were will Ubuntu users go for tech support?
It’s obvious you haven’t really looked at Ubuntu. Ubuntu has a lot that Debian doesn’t, begining with a kernel and hardware detection that works on just about everything. Also Ubuntu is backed by more money than Libranet could ever dream of. That alone would tell us that Ubuntu has a very good chance of being around for at least a while.
As far as Libranet goes, I have mixed feelings. I love the distro, I love the tools, but the world of Linux is passing it by. I’m not sure what those guys have been doing but it wasn’t keeping on top of the distro wars. At one time if you wanted to have a great easy to use and admin Debian system, Libranet was the only real choice, now the world if full of them, including distros with the tools, like Mepis.
IMO Libranet is really going to have to knock the ball out of the park with this next release if they want to survive.
I saw nothing in either article that hasn’t been said dozens of times, and yet *more* nothing stating why Libranet is any different from vanilla Debian. (Yes, I know about Adminmenu, but the author never mentioned it.) I would have liked to see the reason behind why they decided to pay $30 for a Debian-based system and why they thought it was so wonderful.
Is trying to convince Joe User to install something called ‘Ubuntu’ on his computer
Sorry, but it was yet another distro-review that told me that installation is the most easy one of all distros the author has tested.
It would be more interesting to read what’s different to all the other (debian-based) distros out there.
“””
I downloaded version 2.7, which was their free version at the time, and it would be fair to say that life hasn’t been the same since. I quickly purchased version 2.8.1 for the princely sum of $CA30…
“””
The author definitely did it the wrong way… Nearly every other review of Libranet I’ve seen is somebody downloading and reviewing 2.7 so that Libranet will send them a free copy of 2.8 so they can review that, too.
I can’t remember how many times I’ve read lines that said something like, “This is the way it is in 2.7, but I hear it’s even better in 2.8.” A nod’s as good as a wink to a blind bat.
what the difference is…
Of all the other Debian derivatives out there none is really Debian compatible, let alone Debian based. I have tried them all, more than once.
I have dist-upgraded Libranet to Sarge or Sid countless times and it never breaks Debian compatibility.
It has an easy, *flexible* installer (most of the others will chose for you what to install), a nice set of tools (Adminmenu) and the necessary commercial plugins.
Soon 3.0 will be out, and I am expecting major improvements.
In any case Libranet 2.8.1 has been a free download for quite some time now.
Maybe, but this is missing in the review.
btw: It should be possible to upgrade Ubuntu to Debian unstable, and afaik an upgrade from Woody to Ubuntu is also possible.
All Ubuntu-Universe packages are copied from Debian-unstable some weeks before release time.
“btw: It should be possible to upgrade Ubuntu to Debian unstable”
Not easily.
>> Is trying to convince Joe User to install something
>> called ‘Ubuntu’ on his computer
Not a problem. Show him those sexy wallpapers and he’ll be convinced
I am an almost 10 years debian user. On my computer I installed it only one time and then apt-upgraded. Now I have bought a notebook and I will have to install debian on two new computers. On my notebook I have installed knoppix and I am not satisfied: hardware autodetect is great but once installed startup scripts are not good. I have just installed ubuntu on a new computer to try it. I would like to try also mepis userlinux and progeny. But I feel that I will lose my time because I see that this distro are only “debian + some fancy installer with hardware autodetect”. Yes ubuntu forums are very “user friendly” but questions asked are very “basic”. Are there some serious comparison of these distro on the net? And what are yours opinions?
Thanks,
Mario
Hi Mario
My opinion is the following: Mepis and Knoppix are great LiveCD but they don’t make for a good Debian installer.
I have tried them all, and you can rest assured: only Libranet or Debian proper will satisfy your needs.
As to Progeny it is not Debian compatible at all.
Userlinux is just a tiny, extremely buggy iso, and I don’t know if it will ever be much more than that.
Quote: “sadly, but libranet will die soon!”.
Utter rubbish and it shows that you don’t really know what you’re talking about. I suggest maybe that you look at the distrowatch statistics – Libranet has been growing every year since 2002, with more and more “hits” on the Libranet page on distrowatch.com. More hits generally means (statistically wise) more users. And judging by the number of new users that i’m seeing on the Libranet forums I think i’m spot on the money with my comment. Oh, and many of the new users are coming from other distributions and are amazed at how good Libranet is.
I don’t think Ubuntu is going to “die”, but I do believe that that distribution is a fad. It offers X.org and Gnome 2.8, both of which I can get with straight Debian if I want. In fact, i’m running KDE 3.3.2 and Gnome 2.8.1 at home on my Libranet box. X.org has some nifty features, but the *majority* of users don’t necessarily need them. Ubuntu relies heavily on Ubuntu Universe repositories, and there is no guarantee of compatibility with the Debian stable/testing/unstable repositories either. You’re going to end up in one big mess if you try and pin to Debian as time goes on. $$$ don’t mean everything either, look at Microsoft Windows – has lots of $$$ but doesn’t necessarily offer a great product. You may want to check this link out:
http://www.linuxmafia.com/faq/Debian/installers.html
Compatiblity to Debian – Ubuntu – “good”, Libranet – “excellent”. Need I say anymore?
Quote: “. Ubuntu has a lot that Debian doesn’t, begining with a kernel and hardware detection that works on just about everything”
Rubbish. I’m pretty sure that the new Debian Sarge installer uses kudzu for hardware detection, and im pretty sure Ubuntu does as well. A quick google didn’t find any links (hey, i’m at work, gimme a break).
Quote: “I would have liked to see the reason behind why they decided to pay $30 for a Debian-based system and why they thought it was so wonderful.”
Read MY review here:
http://www.desktopos.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=28
Quote: “The author definitely did it the wrong way”
Why is that the wrong way? You like something, you buy it. What’s so fundamentally hard with that? Just writing a review doesn’t entitle you to freebies imho. I don’t expect it, i’m an honest person and I *pay* for Libranet. It’s a value added product, well worth the cost.
Quote: “It would be more interesting to read what’s different to all the other (debian-based) distros out there. ”
As I said to the other poster, read my review then (link above)
Quote: “Of all the other Debian derivatives out there none is really Debian compatible”
I’d tend to agree with this statement. Xandros, Linspire, Mepis all have their little quirks and oddities and issues with packages and apt-get from my experience.
Quote: “btw: It should be possible to upgrade Ubuntu to Debian unstable, and afaik an upgrade from Woody to Ubuntu is also possible.”
Yes, I would agree. Note that you say “possible”. That dictates an element of indecision and doesn’t sound very confident. What is possible and what is a downright pain in the ass are too different things.
Libranet has MANY things going for it and is well worth using and purchasing.
Dave
Note: I do not work for Libranet, nor am I affiliated with Libra Computer systems in any way. I’m just a very happy user.
“Rubbish. I’m pretty sure that the new Debian Sarge installer uses kudzu for hardware detection, and im pretty sure Ubuntu does as well. A quick google didn’t find any links (hey, i’m at work, gimme a break).”
Sorry Dave, I have to call you on this one. I have installed Debian, Sarge, Sid and everything inbetween, it’s just not the same. As a matter of fact, I can’t hardly even get debian to install on my laptop, where as Ubuntu installs without any issues at all. Yep, all because of a crapy bios, but Ubuntu get’s around it perfectly. And no, Libranet will not install on it either.
I am a fan of Libranet also, but they do have some ground to make up IMHO.
well, i must emphasize that i am a fan of libranet and will be. but look at libranet, will you think that it will grow strongly??? libranet 3.0 will be out (when??) and look, when was 2.8.1 out? few yeas ago??? its developement is rather slow, and it seems that their developers dont care about it much, or has other objectives for it now.
with a lot of $$$, you have much better infrastructure for developping. and dont tell me that libranet developers (only few people?) are technically better than ubuntu! with more resource, no doubt that ubuntu will be at the top, and soon be.
come one, i dont care that a distro is debian-compatible or not-compatible. i just need a good distro, period. finally, it doesnt matter much, as long as ubuntu has its repositories with enough packages, rite? if you still insist to be compatible, look at other rpm-based distro. how many of them are redhat-compatible?
wish libranet my best, but i dont see their future. ubuntu all the way.
for those doubter, give ubuntu a try before bullshiting!
Quote: ” can’t hardly even get debian to install on my laptop, where as Ubuntu installs without any issues at all”
Out of curiousity – what make/model? What are/were the exact problems with installation (again, out of curiousity).
Quote: “I am a fan of Libranet also, but they do have some ground to make up IMHO.”
I agree and disagree on this one. From my point of view, 2.8.1 is fine, i’m pretty much running main packages from Sid without issue. Been nice ‘n’ easy to get them as well. True, the base default installation of Libranet 2.8.1 is getting old in the tooth now, at near 18 months or so, but don’t forget that Libranet released the safe update archive, which quite basically was a nice point release by itself. Libranet could have quite easily just made 2.8.2 and sold that, but they didn’t. They offered the safe update archive to anyone using 2.8.1 to upgrade their systems relatively painlessly and easily to newer versions of software.
For those that want the very latest, on the *cd*, then yes, it’s got some ground to make up. I do agree there. That said, *most* people could happily do with the default locations from 2.8.1 and remain fully productive. What is more important – a fully productive, stable system, or the latest and greatest that potentially can break. I’ve seen the refugees from other distros, and let’s just say it’s not a pretty sight. Most of them have suffered from the “I must update or have the latest” syndrome and been bitten. Badly.
Quote: “its developement is rather slow, and it seems that their developers dont care about it much, or has other objectives for it now. ”
I find that extremely offensive. Both Jon & Tal Danzig provide a *quality* product. There is much love that goes into Libranet. Much care. Much quality. To quote an old phrase “all good things take time”. That said, Libranet 3 should hopefully be out of beta by the end of January *fingers crossed*. To say that they don’t care about Libranet is total bull.
Quote: “with a lot of $$$, you have much better infrastructure for developping”
No – you have the *potential* for it. It doesn’t mean it actually happens. Technical ability is about technical knowledge and the ability to apply it in real life situations – more developers doesn’t guarantee better quality. Sometimes it can, yes, but not always. Remember another old saying “too many cooks spoil the broth”.
I severely doubt that Ubuntu will be ‘at the top’. Sorry, but I just don’t see it.
Quote: “come one, i dont care that a distro is debian-compatible or not-compatible”
Each to their own. Being able to use Debians repositories (for something like 13,000 packages) is nice. Does Ubuntu offer that many? Fedora, Suse et al again offer far less packages than Debian. RPMs are typically less reliable and easier to maintain than apt-get in my long experience in using various distributions of Linux. Package management policy and maintenance is a lot better with dpkg.
Quote: “but i dont see their future”
You don’t, I do. Many others do.
Quote: “for those doubter, give ubuntu a try before bullshiting! ”
Not quite sure what you meant there, but I presume you meant something like “for those in doubt, give Ubuntu a try before listening to this bullshit” or something similar. To each their own – Libranet has quite some kick left in it yet before it shuffles off its mortal coil.
As Uteck has correctly pointed out, Ubuntu offers very little in the way of extra over standard Debian. X.org and Gnome 2.8 don’t really cut it in my books. Garrets’ comments are possibly correct, maybe Ubuntu have tweaked their installer, but how effective it is is a different story (it may work fine on his laptop, but on a wide spread of hardware?). What about utilities to easily maintain and administer the system? What about choice? Libranet offers myself the choice to install Gnome, KDE, XFCE etc out of the box. Does Ubuntu? If i’m a KDE user and wanted to use Ubuntu how many hoops would I have to jump thru to get it working?
Don’t get me wrong – Ubuntu isn’t a bad distro at all. I just think it’s very overrated. When Mandrake first came out everyone was praising it. It had some good features, but imho wasn’t a lot better than the market leader at the time, Redhat. Mandrake was a very unreliable distribution, and that turned a lot of people off. Look at Mandrake now, more and more users are becoming disgruntled with its reliability and the forced “we’ll release every six months” mentality, which ends up in broken systems. Funny, Libranet doesn’t seem to have that problem!
Anyways, use what you want. I like Libranet, a LOT.
Dave
Running SuSE 9.2 64 Bit right now, runs very well.
Display: 15.4″ Widescreen TFT LCD WXGA (1280 x 800 max. resolution)
CPU: Mobile AMD Athlon™ 64 3200+ Processor
64-bit Architecture operates at 2.00 GHz
System Bus uses HyperTransport™
Technology operating at 1600 MHz
1 MB L2 Cache
Memory: 512 MB DDR SODIMM (PC 2700)
Hard Drive: 80 GB HDD
Optical Drives: CDRW/DVD Combo Drive (24x24x24 CD-RW; 8x max. DVD-ROM)
Media Reader: 6-in-1 Digital Media Manager (Compact Flash, Micro Drive, MultiMedia Card, Secure Digital (SD), Memory Stick, Memory Stick Pro)
Video: ATI® Mobility RADEON™ 9600 with 64 MB Video RAM
Sound: PC2001 Compliant AC ’97 Audio
Built-in Stereo Speakers
Modem: 56K ITU V.92 Fax/Modem
Network: 802.11g Built-in Wireless (up to 54Mbps)
10/100Mbps built-in Ethernet Broadcom Chip
Pointing Device: Touchpad with Vertical Scroll Zone
Battery: 8-cell Lithium-ion (Li-ion)
Dimensions: 1.6″h x 14.0″w x 10.4″d
Weight: 7.5 lbs. (8.65 total travel weight)
Ports/Other: 4 USB 2.0 ports, 1 IEEE 1394, 1 VGA External Connector, 1 S-Video Out, Microphone In, Headphone/Audio Out, 1 PCMCIA Slot (Card Bus type I or type II)
“For those that want the very latest, on the *cd*, then yes, it’s got some ground to make up. I do agree there. That said, *most* people could happily do with the default locations from 2.8.1 and remain fully productive. What is more important – a fully productive, stable system, or the latest and greatest that potentially can break. I’ve seen the refugees from other distros, and let’s just say it’s not a pretty sight. Most of them have suffered from the “I must update or have the latest” syndrome and been bitten. Badly.”
I won’t try to talk you out of using the linux you like (I respect libranet) but distros like Mepis offer stable releases with fairly new software.
“I find that extremely offensive. Both Jon & Tal Danzig provide a *quality* product. There is much love that goes into Libranet. Much care. Much quality. To quote an old phrase “all good things take time”. That said, Libranet 3 should hopefully be out of beta by the end of January *fingers crossed*. To say that they don’t care about Libranet is total bull.”
You are right, they do care. And their accessability is one of the best things about Libranet.
“I severely doubt that Ubuntu will be ‘at the top’. Sorry, but I just don’t see it.”
At the top of what? Distrowatch? Why does that matter?
“Each to their own. Being able to use Debians repositories (for something like 13,000 packages) is nice. Does Ubuntu offer that many?”
The Hoary Ubuntu offers more than Sarge but a few less than Sid. The Warty Ubuntu is a few hundred behind Sarge. I use Hoary now and it is very stable FOR ME.
“As Uteck has correctly pointed out, Ubuntu offers very little in the way of extra over standard Debian. X.org and Gnome 2.8 don’t really cut it in my books.”
This is why you need to try it. Without experiance your words are like wet paper (easy to rip). IF you did try it, you would know that Ubuntu offers what is possibly the best autoconfiguartion software in the linux realm IMHO. I’ve tried Fedora 3, Suse 9.2, Mandrake 10.1, Newest Mepis, Libranet 2.8.1, Debian Sarge (newest installer)- all of these would not detect hardware like Ubuntu does. Ubuntu installed everything on my computer (including my ipod) without any work; on the first boot of X my monitor was using its best settings. Ubuntu’s installer is not the vanilla Debian one-its based on debians. Its kicks ass. Also Ubuntu is fast. How fast? Well that subjective. But on my computer (Pentium 4 2.66) it felt noticably faster than Sid.
“Garrets’ comments are possibly correct, maybe Ubuntu have tweaked their installer, but how effective it is is a different story (it may work fine on his laptop, but on a wide spread of hardware?).”
Most people in the Ubuntu community that I have talked to have the same experiance- Ubuntu had the best autoconfiguration they have seen.
“What about utilities to easily maintain and administer the system?”
Well Ubuntu uses the newest gnome (2.9+ in Hoary right now) with mostly mature GUI tools. Push comes to shove, there is always the “debian way.” No there is no Admin menu like in Libranet, but everything installed so well I didn’t miss it (I was using Libranet before Warty came out).
“What about choice? Libranet offers myself the choice to install Gnome, KDE, XFCE etc out of the box. Does Ubuntu? If i’m a KDE user and wanted to use Ubuntu how many hoops would I have to jump thru to get it working?”
Thats what the “debian-based” thing is all about. Don’t want Gnome? Then get into the universe respotory and install K3B or whatever you want. Is it supported? No, and if you want that I suggest you try a distro that does support what you want (Icewm- Libranet, KDE- Mepis, etc.) Thats true choice. No distro is perfect for everybody. Ubuntu is Gnome only to accerate devolopment. Its working, Hoary kicks ass!
“Don’t get me wrong – Ubuntu isn’t a bad distro at all. I just think it’s very overrated.”
Maybe overhyped, but overrated? Try it for a month or two before you make that comment. Who has rated it highly anyway? Just a lot of people like to use it; every distro is highly rated to someone or it wouldn’t exist.
“When Mandrake first came out everyone was praising it. It had some good features, but imho wasn’t a lot better than the market leader at the time, Redhat. Mandrake was a very unreliable distribution, and that turned a lot of people off. Look at Mandrake now, more and more users are becoming disgruntled with its reliability and the forced “we’ll release every six months” mentality, which ends up in broken systems. Funny, Libranet doesn’t seem to have that problem!”
Well, I tried the new Mandrake….and Ubuntu runs circles around it. Its faster, more stable. I mean…the damn thing is build on debian, not ancient Redhat. Apples to Pears.
“Anyways, use what you want. I like Libranet, a LOT.”
I will. And you use what you want. Just don’t be so closed minded to the new kid on the block. Ubuntu upstreams their work to Debian which in turn makes (surprise) Libranet better. Ubuntu should not be scorned by a Libranet fan.
Quote: “Most people in the Ubuntu community that I have talked to have the same experiance- Ubuntu had the best autoconfiguration they have seen. ”
If that’s the case it’s excellent. I’d like to see what they’ve done to improve it and how they’ve tweaked it etc. Is their installer and detection methods open source GPL compliant or is it some hidden proprietary detection method? Maybe i’m not adventerous enough, but I don’t have any exotic laptops or hardware, so advanced detection is a waste on this lad 😉 But I do agree that it is good for those with the fancy new toys that I can’t afford 🙁
Quote: “Maybe overhyped, but overrated? ”
You’re correct, I meant overhyped, although overrated could be used as well. I guess it’s a very personal thing.
Quote: “Ubuntu is Gnome only to accerate devolopment. Its working, Hoary kicks ass! ”
Unfortunately I have an extreme adversion to Gnome – it’s went backwards since v1.4 in my eyes and has exceptionally poor UI. I simply detest it. Yes, I use KDE, but I really like XFCE – if they can get desktop icons on it i’ll switch 😉 Basically if a distribution favours one desktop environment over others i’m not interested. That is not a good way to showcase open source to new users. I know I can download it via Ubuntu/Debian repositories but that’s not the point. Slackware is just as bad as it’s pro KDE. I’d rather see distributions include Gnome, KDE, XFCE, blackbox, fluxbox etc etc and let the user play with it and decide what THEY want, not have a desktop environment shoved down their throat. That’s just my viewpoint.
Quote: “Ubuntu upstreams their work to Debian which in turn makes (surprise) Libranet better. Ubuntu should not be scorned by a Libranet fan.”
That is a very good point, i’m not so much scorning Ubuntu, it just isn’t my cup of tea so to speak. And I do get annoyed by users on the Libranet forums who go “Ubuntu this, Ubuntu that”. If they love it so much then don’t shove it down my throat and gloat, go away and use it. Most of the other Libranet forum members would most probably agree with me, they’re just too timid to say what they’re thinking. I’m rather brusque, blunt, take your pick 😉
Ubuntu is great for some people, as is Libranet for others etc etc. To each their own. I’m very happy with Libranet and see no reason to switch.
Anyways, back onto topic – Libranet is what I feel is a great distribution, for those reading the posts on osnews.com take the time to read the reviews, try Libranet and most importantly have FUN!!!
Thanks for the good discussion poofyhairguy!
Dave
Garret, that’s one yummo laptop! Gimme!
Suse has always had good detection of hardware, but after some exceptionally poor support from Suse I cannot recommend their products. I’m a rather old fashioned consuemr – you cross me with poor support and that’s it. I’ll no longer use your product and i’ll go out of my way to show why it’s a bad choice. If more people did it my way they’d get better service and support.
Dave
so, aparently from this thread, libranet is the greatest of the great in linux distros, and ubuntu is just a repackaged debian. they have come to this conclusion because
1) libranet offers some additional admin tools
2) libranet doesnt use the debian installer
…
well, #1 is a plus for libra, but with gnome-system-tools basic administration stuff is quite easy. #2 is pretty silly though, we are talking about DEBIAN! one guy here said he has used it for TEN years and installed it ONCE. the new debian-installer is decent, i perfer the slack installer still but it gets the job done, and is vastly superior to the old POS. regardless, even if the installer was just a readme like gentoo, how is this more then a minor inconveniance, unless you reinstall your operating system every week?
to see why ubuntu is great, lets walk through a newbs intro to debian. way back when i started playing with linux, i gave debian a shot and was turned off, this is based on my experience.
1) the daunting 6 cd download. they give you the “network install” disc (which is what i used since), but if you arnt confident in linux you are not going to go that route without some help.
2) stable = archaic. i didnt know this at the time. i was presented with three versions with references to toy story characters. of course i choose the stable one, what i wanted was unstable.
3) post install environment. the default kernel is unacceptable for a desktop computer. youre tossed to the cli with instructions to run the wildly intuitive app called aptitude. fun.
it was around here i gave up, installed slack, and slowly went about gaining some compitence in linux. now im not bashing debian, i dont think they have ever pretended to be anything but a geek distro. as much fun as geek distros are, i have found them more useful as learning tools then as a serious work environment, but thats just me. let me contrast that with my experiences on installing ubuntu
#1) one iso download. one branch. focus on doing one thing, and doing it well as opposed to being everything to everyone.
#2) building around gnome. this is an immediate plus for me as i am a gnome user, and a fan of the whole “focus on one de” trend that distros tend to be gravitating towards.
#3) sane defaults. the ubuntu guys are one of the few who keep close to a default gnome setup, which is close to what i use. that and the suprising lack of redundancy gives us a distro i can finally feel confident recommending to people.
#4) good security updates on the latest software. one of my biggest beefs with sid is addressed.
#5) good community. i would rank the ubuntu community forums right after the gentoo forums, plenty of people willing to answer any question. debian has good support, as long as you follow the esr guidelines on asking questions. i would have no problem telling my mom to ask stuff on those forums. i would have a problem telling her to ask on a #debian chan.
now this is contrasting ubuntu with debian. i have never used libranet, other then their free old version which was a loooong way from impressing me. my impression is that libranet is a good desktop debian. my impressions (so far) of ubuntu is that its a good desktop debian that tries to get away from the whole DIY thing by focusing on what they believe to be the most useful apps.
ubuntu is not useless, pointless, or redundant. it is definately overhyped, but so is gentoo, knoppix, and who can forget the slew of xandros reviews that acompany every release. a large portion of the user base are the stereotypical disillusioned mandrake newbs who know next to nothing, and are in love with ubuntu because it is their first “real” distro. basing opinions on it based on their arguments is like trying to talk to gentoo users who tell you compiling everything from source makes it fifty times as fast, and a hundred times as stable. ignore them, and actually give it a shot. if you are a gnome user, chances are youll love it. of course, if you dont thats perfectly fine too, welcome to the wonderful world of linux where one size most definately does not fit all.
as much as im for using quick google queries to weakly prove a point, i dont see how distrowatch hits = users. distrowatch hits means interest, nothing else.
another thing to note that if you really use distrowatch stats as a guide to what is popular, you will see that ubuntu is at #12 for the year (hasnt even been out for a year), while libranet is at 28. i dont know where you get steady growth, cause distrowatch says that it has stayed even over the last year, in the last month page hits have gone down. would also like to note in the last month, ubuntu ranks #5, while libranet ranks #37.
according to your logic, libranet is a minor distro, under such big players as K12LTSP, and Puppy Linux. while ubuntu is a major player, right up there with mandrake, suse, and fedora. personally, i dont believe that. distrowatch is more a measurement of hype then a measurement of marketshare. of course, they disagree, as you are free to do as well.
(link for anyone who doesnt want to have to navigate that horrendous site http://distrowatch.com/stats.php?section=popularity)
“…debian, i dont think they have ever pretended to be anything but a geek distro. as much fun as geek distros are, i have found them more useful as learning tools then as a serious work environment, but thats just me.”
Now let’s be serious here. Debian a geek distro? Only if you are a n00b. You can’t be productive with Debian? This sounds also absolutely incredible. Ask the many thousands of Debian users. And once you have learned it is incredibly easy to mantain. E.G. with module-assistant you have one of the easiest Nvidia installs of any distro, including Fedora.
If you add to that the Libranet easy installer, the excellent tools of Adminmenu, commercial stuff out of the box, you have Debian proper plus extreme ease of use, not a lot of limitations as you get from Ubuntu (with Ubuntu you truly need to be a geek in order to overcome its limitations)