With the latest crop of iPods, Apple is no longer including a FireWire cable in the box. The music players will still work with FireWire, if a cord is purchased separately, but only a USB 2.0 cable comes with the device. The move is part of a gradual shift on Apple’s part to standardize the iPod on USB, which is far more common in the Windows world. Nonetheless, some Mac owners were rankled by the move, saying that as recently as a year or two ago many Macs didn’t include a USB 2.0 port. My Take: Just bought (a previous generation for cheap) iPod Mini yesterday. It’s a truly nicely done product. The FW option seems better than the USB on my 2 year old Powerbook, as it has USB 1.1 instead of 2.0.
Apple takes a step away from FireWire?
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Apple is a business after all. And money is what allows them to create the great looking products (software and hardware). So they are just maximizing profits. Considering the following:
1) They could keep supplying only firewire cables pissing off or plainly making it a hassle for Windows users who don’t have firewire ports. Which is most Windows PCs.
2) They could include both a USB and FireWire cable which would cost more and reduce the amount of profit.
or …
3) Include only a USB cable. Since all new Macs and Windows computers have USB 2.0 ports and most Windows PCs don’t have FireWire ports this is the most obvious answer.
it’s the next logical move forward but isn’t firewire apple’s brainchild?? sad to see they are selling out on firewire… what’ll this do to firewire800’s future??
They are NOT selling out firewire.
They are just incrasing profits by only providing USB cables, simple as that.
Firewire is a no-brainer to Mac users. But in the winderz world, I guess nobody connects their video camera to the computers. I guess they spend all their time playing games. So yeah it makes sense for Apple to do this although I have heard of people having problems with USB and iPods in Windows.
iPod’s clientelle is mostly Windows people, and few Joe Sixpack motherboards actually come with a Firewire port.
But Firewire is nowhere near being abandoned. Specially since USB2’s bandwidth just can’t compare with FW800. Actually, USB2’s real-world bandwidth is still below FW400’s one. And the pont-to-point architecture is just leaps and bounds better.
You’ll hear a LOT about Firewire in this “Year of HD video”. Trust me. Maybe some news on the Wireless Firewire front as well, but I’m not so sure about this one.
For me, just from buying devices(ive never bought ANY cables before) I have a drawer full of different cables. I’d rather go buy a cable if required than pay extra for the device itself. I don’t see it as them selling out firewire, its not as if they are removing the firewire port, but meeting the demand of the customers. If more people want usb 2.0 that should be the cable included.
Besides, assuming they are selling out is kindof a knee-jerk reaction isn’t it? Afterall, it is only a cheap cable.
Firewire is unlikely to disappear on Apple computers, because of their strong commitment for Firewire DV cameras. It might disappear on other Apple peripherals that are intended to interoperate with PCs, since newer Apple computers come with USB 2.0.
Who would be unhappy? People who own older Apple computers (particularly the ones that cannot be upgraded to USB 2.0) but want to use new Apple peripherals. But that’s about it.
“Maybe some news on the Wireless Firewire front as well”
Are they gonna call it Firewireless by any chance? 😉
It seems in my experience that firewire does not perform as well on Windows as it does on Mac. In my (very) limited experience it seems like firewire transfer performance is always higher and uses fewer CPU resources under Mac OS X than it does under a somewhat comparable Windows machine.
Actually, if you care to look at Windows machines in the stores these days you will see most have both Firewire and USB ports just like the new Macs do. Most that do not are the ultra cheap models. As several people mentioned I feel this is more about maximizing profit than anything else. Which may be a mistake for Apple as I have never minded paying more for a well thought out package.
Bill
It will still be used for camcorders and for people who want a faster external drive. Its just a set back since most computers come with USB and don’t have Firewire, so USB is the best thing to bundle with the iPod at the moment for all computer users.
By cheap you mean $199, right?
Most PCI USB 2.0 cards are supported under OSX in G3 and G4 powermacs
if your Mac has a PCI slot its cheaper than buying the firewire cable.
If you want to write about your iPod Mini, feel free to do it. But why do you call that “My Take”?? It has nothing to do with the news item.
No, I mean $152 (yes, brand new). I bought it directly from Apple (more directly than an Apple Store ;-).
The low end compaq presario that I just bought happens to include at least one or two firewire ports. It cost me $450 including sales tax and shipping from hpshopping.com. Most PCs in the past year or two from major manufacturers probably do come with firewire ports.
I don’t get this move, but that’s just me. It’s mainly because of the fact that my iPod is about 8 months old and it came with both USB 2.0 and Firewire cords. I don’t see why Apple would bother dropping one of them when having both has clearly been a boon to both camps. I would be willing to wager that this move would piss off at least a sizable minority of Windows users who no doubt like Firewire better than USB. I bet that most of the Windows iPod owners I know would at least be upset that they lost the option since they have USB 2.0 and Firewire and having both cords is handy if they lose one.
For a few days I had to go to using USB on my powerbook and it was painful compared to firewire.
> It has nothing to do with the news item.
So what? I just bought a Mini and I feel like writing about it. If you don’t like it, do your own web site.
like most holy wars, they are pretty much the same when you come down to it. firewire has a higher average throughput, but usb has better burst speeds. you say potato, i say potato.
> Actually, if you care to look at Windows machines in the
> stores these days you will see most have both Firewire and
> USB ports just like the new Macs do.
Maybe so, but those are only the newest machines. Most Windows users still have 1-3 year old systems without IEEE1394.
Incidentally, I bet that when Apple first came out with the iPod they probably didn’t realize how much it would catch on with non-Mac users.
I for one am not very happy with Apple removing the Firewire cables from the minis. I have an iBook G3 that has USB 1.1 and Firewire, and I was just thinking about buying a new generation mini before they came out. But now it seems that I have to spend a little extra to get the Firewire cable because I can’t imagine transfering songs with USB 1.1.
But on the whole, the move makes sense. Macs started getting USB2 a couple of years back and now their entire lineup has those ports so it shouldn’t be a problem for people with newer macs. Not to mention the fact that they’ve made the iPods cheaper by removing those extra cables. And ever since iTunes for Windows was released, the iPod has become something of an independent product that sees Mac and Windows users as equals, and after all, it’s the Windows iPod/iTunes users that are making the most money for Apple, so why not.
Beyond everything else, the iPod’s charger has a FireWire port. Why? Because FireWire ports supply up to 12W of power to external devices per port.
USB in comparison can only supply a paltry 2.5W of power, and that’s provided it’s the only USB device drawing power from the bus (i.e if you’re using a passive hub). If you charge your iPod by plugging it into your computer, expect it to take nearly 5 times as long to charge over USB as it does over FireWire.
Why Apple would do this I have no idea… I loved being able to charge my iPod by plugging it into my iBook and having it charge over the FireWire port. If these devices still support FireWire, why leave out the cabling? If only the USB cable is included it will take a damn long time to charge.
And what new power adapters are they shipping then? Ones with a USB port? Ones with a cable that plugs directly into the iPod? If it’s the former, that simply sucks, they’re increasing the time it takes to charge the iPod 5x in order to save a little money. If it’s the latter, than WTF are they thinking, how the hell does that save any money?
It’s a stupid move either way.
Why when purchasing not simply ask what cord a user wants Firewire or USB… if you want both pay a couple bucks extra.
The iPod’s packaging has been going downhill. The 3G iPod I got had such pretty packaging, stark black & white on the oustside, and everything packed in close-fitting styrofoam compartments on the inside. the 4G I got had silly colored packaging on the outside, and everything thrown into a bin made of egg-carton cardboard. It reminded me of a warehouse done up to host a rave party. Not a good look for what is supposed to be a “premium” product.
Eugenia, Marsian is right. You get mad at people for posting off-topic comments, why should you post them in the story? You’re not any different. I understand it’s “your” site, but come on. I’d love to read a post about your experiences with your iPod mini, but it has nothing at all to do with this post. Please remove it?
I got a 40GB iPod for christmas and the power charger had a firewire port on it and you used the supplied firewire cord to hook it up. I hook my iPod up using usb because my laptop only has a powerless firewire connector.
The car charger I purchsed works the same as the power brick and came with a 30″ firewire cable.
So do the new power bricks have a usb plug?
http://www.apple.com/ipodphoto/accessories.html
Notice the iPod dock? iPod photo dock?
Now go to the Apple Store and note the price.
Buy the iPod and the dock and what will you spend? MORE than if they were together before, but you also get more with it.
So do the new power bricks have a usb plug?
Yes. But power bricks are no longer included by default (part of lowering the price of iPods, I’m sure). There are both USB and Firewire power bricks for sale ($29).
if they reduced the price, then sure, i have no qualms about not including a 1394a cable (they’re only $10 and i have loads), but if they’re just increasing profits then it’s a bit lame.
firewire is also so much faster than usb2 (by like 50%, despite the 400 vs. 480mbps thing).
Eugenia, Marsian is right. You get mad at people for posting off-topic comments, why should you post them in the story?
Now, I’m as much of a rebel as the next guy, so it sort of pains me to say it, but I agree with Eugenia…and, yes, Eugenia, you are the authority.
The point is that the posted story defines what is or isn’t on topic. Nothing in the posted story can be off topic, because it defines what the topic is.
I can’t imagine transfering songs with USB 1.1
Ohhh, at least you have USB1.1! Back in my day, we transferred songs to our Rios with a serial cable, and we were glad to have that!
</yorkshiremen>
It’s funny because it’s true. I probably will be saying something like that to my grandkids one day far in the future.
perhaps they realise that there are mountains of cables everywhere that simply won’t ever be used?
heck, printers don’t even come with ONE cable anymore. And any of you that are sysadmins will agree with me that getting a kettle lead with every monitor and computer is crazy, I’ve binned about 200 of the buggers in the last year, and they were the new ones because I refuse to dig about to remove the old one!
talking some sense for a mo…a lot of the people using firewire will already have a cable for their DV cam. those using USB might have a usb cable, but probably not with the small connector on, so it makes a little sense. personally I don’t think any devices should come with a cable, but should have cable VOUCHERS so you can pick one up for free while at the store :o)
Why was there no fuss over the Shuffle being only available as a USB 2.0 device. There’s *no* option for the Shuffle to be connected via Firewire at all.
I bought a 5 port USB 2.0 PCI card for my G4 tower for $20. It required no software and took less than 5 minutes to turn off my G4, install the card, and boot back up.
I know this is of no use owners of Macs without PCI slots, but they do have the option of just getting the Firewire cable.
Meanwhile, I have several external drives with both Firewire and USB ports. I can’t detect any speed difference between the two, so I’ve moved everything over to the USB ports which has freed up my Firewire ports which I use for video.
Nothing in the posted story can be off topic, because it defines what the topic is.
Here’s where I definitely disagree. The topic of the post is set by the story linked to (or alternatively the original article/review/whatever written). In this case, this post linked to an article about Apple “taking a step away” from Firewire. The iPod mini comment is pointless (until Eugenia decided to add on to it).
Even still, the line could be taken out with only her new (badly worded) comment: The FW option seems better than the USB on my 2 year old Powerbook, as it has USB 1.1 instead of 2.0.
My last mac came with a firwire cable. It just makes sense to have a USB cable with the iPod for Windows users.
Apple isn’t going to step alway from it’s own technology(firewire)with started the whole DV Revolution with dv cameras until something better comes along to replace it.
Knowing Apple they probably did market research and found out that more people were using USB 2 with the iPod.
usb2 with 480mb/sec is faster then Firewire 400 i suppose
and this option is just cheaper for Apple
The ones that really want 800mbit/sec just buy a cable if you really think you will need it but i am sure you’re harddrive cannot get to this speed and most of all, the transfer will never reach this speed because of all the seperate mp3 files.
dream on guys
Somewhat off topic…but iPod is dead in South Korea. There’re some reasons:
1. iPod arrived too late: the S.Korean MP3 market has been already dominated by Samsung and iRiver. There’s no place for iPod to win.
2. Lack of support: Lack of support (at least sort of) for S. Korean music in iTunes Music Store contributed to failure of iPod in S. Korea. Still worse, there’re countless on-line music store in S. Korea, which has (of course) tons of S. Korean pop music.
3. iPod cannot play (or could not???) WMA and OGG, which are immensely popular file format in S. Korea.
4. Most damning of all: The Apple Korea’s STUPID PRICING POLICY.
Anyway, many S. Korean people just shruggs off, saying “What the heck is the big deal?? It’s just another MP3 Player.” They (INCLUDING ME) don’t understand the reason behind iPod Boom/Revolution/Whatsoever…
BTW, I am happy with my 1GB iRiver iF-799 MP3 Player. With firmware upgrade, I can turn it into portable flash drive with music player, which can play WMA and OGG nicely.
And than? I can’t see your point!
Better only South Korea or all the rest of the World? 🙂
Apple sells more Mac in Europe than USA even if USA are Apple’s home market. Japan is a market more nationalist than South Korea and Sony is really strong in its home market, but iPod has a 90% of ALL the Japanese digital player market and there isn’t a Japanese iTunes Music Store.
You are only an island alone in a bigger sea. 🙂
And the sea likes to show its rage! >:-D
You are only an island alone in a bigger sea. 🙂
And the sea likes to show its rage! >:-D
Since when is South Korea an Island? Get a freaking map.
And the comment about the sea is really cheap.
Here in Brazil, it is not usual to see people walking around with iPods, unless they´re really wealthy (money-wise speaking). Apple products prices are really outraging here[1] and the competition is tough. We can get a Samsung, or Creative or someone else music player for about a third of the cost of an iPod.
Since we don´t have a DMCA law or anything like that, neither suffer the constant pressure (should I say lobby ;-)) from MPAA/RIAA, there is little to none incentive to someone buy their music online here, although there are some sparse attempts at that. People are happy with their P2P networks.
So, to make it short… There is a whole world off the shores of the USA, despite what some people up there might believe. And if Apple wants their share of these markets, they´d better rethinking their pricing policies for these countries (err… Should I say potential consumers?)
Respectfully yours,
DeadFish Man
[1] I could buy more than three brand new powerful PCs with the amount of money required to afford a relatively new Mac (a G4, mind you). A G5 Power Mac custs as much as an car here (And no, this is not the dual G5 that we´re talking about…). Personally, I don´t know a single person who owns a Mac. Not even the pre-iMacs old ones.
The iPod’s packaging has been going downhill. The 3G iPod I got had such pretty packaging, stark black & white on the oustside, and everything packed in close-fitting styrofoam compartments on the inside. the 4G I got had silly colored packaging on the outside, and everything thrown into a bin made of egg-carton cardboard. It reminded me of a warehouse done up to host a rave party. Not a good look for what is supposed to be a “premium” product.
receycled cardboard is better for the environment, styrofoam is evil…
@adam, if you buy a printer from the aldi supermarket it does come with a cable 🙂
“Who would be unhappy? People who own older Apple computers (particularly the ones that cannot be upgraded to USB 2.0) but want to use new Apple peripherals. But that’s about it.”
Indeed. USB 2.0 has been a part of most new PC motherboards for the past three years – I suppose it helps having Intel behind the standard and pushing it aggressively. In contrast, IEEE-1394 (Firewire), despite being supported by a lot of motherboards these days, arrived somewhat later, and seemingly only in notebooks to begin with.
If Apple had “got on the bus” some time ago, all this would have been a non-issue, but then that just isn’t the Apple way, is it?
“The advantages of FireWire over USB 1.1, however, are vast — and so the people who are effectively forced to pay for the FireWire cable are those whose Macs don’t have USB 2.0 ports. This includes some machines that aren’t yet two years old (including yours truly’s iBook G3).”
Now *this* is how you incorporate “your take” in the article. This comes from John Gruber’s http://www.daringfireball.net, from an editorial that tackles the FireWire issue from many more angles.
… when a 1.5% market share company tries to force their standards onto the world – it was pathetic years ago and now Apple users can rightly feel screwed again. No wait, Apple users *never* feel screwed, no matter what happens in the distortion field…
Same for GBit LAN: years ago every G4 owner had to pay up for a feature none of them ever needed for the lack of affordable GBit switches – today, where GBit switches can be had for no money, Apple quits builing GBit into their machines, where the rest of the world is making it the default…
FireWire on Macs are used for low level debuging so I doubt they’ll be going anywhere..
“Same for GBit LAN: years ago every G4 owner had to pay up for a feature none of them ever needed for the lack of affordable GBit switches – today, where GBit switches can be had for no money, Apple quits builing GBit into their machines, where the rest of the world is making it the default…”
How much do you think it really cost Apple to include GBit lan rather than 100Mbit lan? Apple has always been early adopters of technology and the G4 used to be their flagship.
The thing about Apple stopping to build GBit into their machines is a pure lie though. Apple’s high end computers (Powerbook 15″ and 17″ and Powermac G5) come with GBit ethernet, just like the G4 used to. Nothing has changed. The G4 came with GBit ethernet when it was the high-end computer from Apple.
The computers that DON’T come with GBit ethernet is the lower-end systems. The only exception is the Powerbook 12″, which I agree really should have more of the same features as the 15″ and 17″.
Apple users are normally quite passionate about their computers for a reason.
“Since when is South Korea an Island? Get a freaking map.
And the comment about the sea is really cheap.”
WTF?! I know Korea isn’t a island!!!
My take was a motaphor!!!
Not likely. USB is more common on PC’s. Apple sells more iPods to PC users. It’s makes no business sense to give millions of PC users cables they can’t use.
Having to buy extra cables to run consumer electronics exactly the way that you want is nothing new.
When you buy a DVD player, even a high end one, it usually only comes with composite (RCA) cables. That doesn’t mean that the manufactureres are turning their backs on component video, toslink & coax digital audio, etc. They are just trying to minimize their cost & maximize their out of the box compatibilty (leading to less returns & exchanges).
<quote>”Who would be unhappy? People who own older Apple computers (particularly the ones that cannot be upgraded to USB 2.0) but want to use new Apple peripherals. But that’s about it.”
Indeed. USB 2.0 has been a part of most new PC motherboards for the past three years – I suppose it helps having Intel behind the standard and pushing it aggressively. In contrast, IEEE-1394 (Firewire), despite being supported by a lot of motherboards these days, arrived somewhat later, and seemingly only in notebooks to begin with.
If Apple had “got on the bus” some time ago, all this would have been a non-issue, but then that just isn’t the Apple way, is it?”</quote>
Acutally the firewire was quite popular with intel and microsoft when it was introduced.
FireWire never became a standard because apple wanted a few dollars per PC for ever PC w/ a fireWire port. Intel and many PC motherboard manufactors can’t afford this so they stuck with USB, which they didnt’ have to pay any royality. Eventually, with the introduction of USB 2.0, fireWire is slowly becomming extinct.
Apple withdraw on its heavy royality, but by then it was too late, USB had already became a standard.
Not to say that firewire isn’t a superior product, but if the company who invents it wants to be greedy and keep it to themselves, they can, and shouldn’t expect it to compete as a standard if they aren’t offering the incentive for it to become so.