Less than two months since the release of Red Hat Linux 7.3, Red Hat already released a 5-CD beta of their upcoming version of Red Hat Linux, codenamed Limbo. The beta includes Gnome 2.0, KDE 3.0.1, GCC 3.1, Mozilla 1.0, OpenOffice 1.0 and much more.
Limbo: A New Red Hat Linux Beta
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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I’ve said it once but I think its worth repeating;
I’ve always though that numbering Linux distros is freaking stupid.
Instead of Mandrake 7.x; How about Mandrake Base Install 2002. And then thru out the year(s) have Mandrake Update July 2002, as needed. Come out with a new Base Install roughly once a ~year.
Then sell subscriptions. Each Base Installs documention would come in a three ring binder; and the updates would come with replacement pages. Forget version numbering; with rate of x.0 updates on some very important software we’ll be up to SuSE 18.5 in no time. The version number, if any should coinside (sp) with the kernels.
And then Linux distributors wouldn’t have to play “rush out the distro because XXXXXX made a new one!”, OMG! A new KDE version – – quick guys throw together a new x.0 distro before RH does (says SuSE, Mandrake etc).
It would be a great way to keep end users up to date on patches. A lot of people will rush out like madmen to get their hot hands on an update; but will seldom actively seek security patches.
If I were CEO of Linux Company Inc. and advertised the sh@t out of MyLinux new version 6.0 to be released on DEC 1st 2002, I can’t exactly call up the KDE project and say “Hey!!! A$$h@les, what the fsck are you waiting on???? I’ve got a new distro coming out in two weeks and you’d BETTER have KDE 4.0 out the door!”. That might work with big business software, but not when your talking stallmanites. Linux distros shouldn’t be ran like a traditional business: becuase they are not.
Where are your suggestion about it???
WHAT?!?
Although I have learned that comments on these things are hardly accepted in a peaceful way I must agree that linux distributions should be more careful and don’t get rushed just because there’s something new in the market. Since this is linux, users that want to experience new releases as soon as they came can do it on their own. Why? Simply because those that are willing to wait are generally those that are wise enough to wait for a stable (reliable) release or those that don’t have enough knowledge (call them whatever you want) to sucessfully install them, so they prefer (at least they should) to wait for a rpm or deb package preventing a lot of trouble (at least it should be easier but sometimes easier becames harder). A Linux Distribution should make their way not by using all fancy new packages releases but for being reliable and the most complete as possible. It seems to me that greatest problems of linux Desktop is users and some companies (Mandrake, RedHat and Suse) that insist in offering badly tested programs just because they are new. This attitude is not heathly and sincerelly it scares me that these are the same companies that provides most linux desktop users, maybe someone should wonder why this community evolution/enlargement is geting slower.
P.S. GUIs have a kill button, think about it.
Now it is the time for a trully responsible distro to release a new version (or start working on one) not when RedHat 7.3/SuSe 8.x/Slackware ?.? were released !
Now it is the time for a trully responsible distro to release a new version (or start working on one) not when RedHat 7.3/SuSe 8.x/Slackware ?.? were released !
Have you noticed that Red Hat puts out a release every six months? Yes, almost exactly every six months. Not because Distro X or Project Y happen to have done something recently. They just seem to keep to their schedule regardless what others are doing. I for one like it that way.
WTF they think we all got OC-192s? my god, 3 cds is bad enuff to have to DL but 5 sheesh
3 install cd’s + 2 source cd’s
you dont need the last 2 disks unless you want to install the SRPMs (which generally ppl dont)
Some of you guys suck. Why are people whining about a beta release? Were you thinking that Redhat went to sleep after the last release? I bait most of you have not even bothered to read the Change log. You have to want do it to use a beta release. Everybody knows that beta versions are for. They help make the product better long before it is released. If you are not one of the beta-using types, just go on using whatever makes you happy.
I totally agree with tom6789:
* redhat 23.4 is meaningless, redhat 2005-June means something
* subscriptions? this is an amazing idea and has been oft mentioned – its perfect for the user who loves to update their system with all the dirsto releases – disks just come through your door – and the vendors should love it too – they mark up the projected profits like many another company do!
I would much rather that all distributions start adopting yearly time stamp versions ie Redhat 2002, or better yet Redhat 2002 x.x; that is, include the revision number after the date. I think its getting to a point that with every kernel revision, X windows upgrade or KDE or GNOME revision some distibutions are releasing another point release. Needless to say major SSH, Apache, Samba, and Bind upgrades don’t necessarily constitue another point release. Makes me think the revisions are gearded toward desktop users.
And yes, the changes are getting impossible to keep track of.
i already patched for almost 500mb (beat that MS!) with up2date through the redhat network.. why do i have to download this seperately? is this available as a distro upgrade over the internet? or am i forced to download 1.8gb? talk about bloated software..
This will make things much easier to develop in C++. Having everything already using the 3.1 ABI.
<burns/>Excellent
Just use Debian.
Step 1. apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
Done.
“Step 1. apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade”
So, will that put Gnome 2.0 & KDE 3.02 on my machine?
Also, how good is the hardware autodetection? Redhat autodetects pretty much all my hardware. Slackware doesn’t autodetect shit
Where does Debian fit in ?
hardware support… er.. apt-get update ya… what? video support,, umm.. apt-get update, usb support not working right… umm.. apt-get update, what drivers does debian come with? umm.. apt-get update.
am I the only one getting sick of these debian people always running around yelling about apt-get?? Is this all that debian has going for it?
Haha, this is funny stuff. apt-get used to be cool, until I discovered BSD/Gentoo Linux ports collections. Of course, it’s easy to upgrade the whole OS much the same.
Debian is too slow in providing stable releases. You would think they are trying to package MS software into a stable release (which would cause headaches 🙂
Also, I really don’t think RPM would work well for a subscription-based service. It just doesn’t seem appealing.
Please, RH is one of the few projects that use version
numbers in a meaningful way: minor revisions keep binary
compatibility(eg 7.x), new major versions break it (eg,
7.x use the bastardized 2.96.whatever GCC, and 8.x will
use GCC 3.1).
And stop conspiration theories about new releases based on
other new products, this is a damn BETA(Alpha?), is normal
that they release one after they make big changes to the
distro…
And BTW, I don’t even use RH, I just use FreeBSD for all my
work right now(which also uses a meaningful version scheme..),
there are many things I dont like about RH, but their version
scheme and release schedule is one of the best of all linux
distros…
\K
P.S.: IMHO we should get ride of *all* kind of version naming,
and just use the equivalent of Debian Sid
of course I
understand that that would be a QA nightmare for RH…
But Debian should really stop making new versions of the
distro, and just release new versions of the installer
that let’s you select which APT repository you want to use…
I don’t really agree with placing the most up to date software (except for updates that mostly fixes performance, stablity and security issues, like 2.4.x), and work to make everything work right with each other. I have tried Red Hat 7.1, and even Mandrake 8.2, every don’t work right with each other, some packages conflict. Maybe they should adopt something like Debian Stable, where when the distribution is purely stable, and there isn’t any reported bugs in the Bugzilla, it is released. Sounds like a good idea? But what about those who want the cutting egde stuff? Like Debian, have 3 version, totally unstable where the distro itself is unstable, partially unstable where all the distro bugs haven’t be cleared out, and stable for the most rock solid distro out there.
“hardware support… er.. apt-get update ya… what? video support,, umm.. apt-get update, usb support not working right… umm.. apt-get update, what drivers does debian come with? umm.. apt-get update.”
Well it works fine for me.. Detects my hardware just as well as Redhat or any other distro. (Mandrake being the exception, it does even better)
“am I the only one getting sick of these debian people always running around yelling about apt-get??”
You know why they do that? Cause its so damn cool thats why!
While it is no longer the only system of its kind, its still the most functional/reliable.
“Is this all that debian has going for it?”
Umm.. No. The distro policy is probably the best thing. All packages in stable are high quality with minimal problems and are just that, STABLE. All packages in testing are about the quality level of the other distros and quite up to date too. (don’t give me this bull about old software. There will usually be a package in testing after about 2 weeks of the release of that software)
And Eric Murphy: Don’t even start with Gentoo/portage. For a normal desktop user it is basically useless. It’s cool and I like it myself but its not practical to wait for hours for any major program to finish compiling. Too much of a waste of computing power for the minimal performance gain that it brings.
“Slackware doesn’t autodetect shit
”
Maybe so, but when YOU get Slackware configured, it will run perfectly for a long long time. IMHO, Slackware is the best Linux distro for servers.
I’ve tried the rest and always come back to Slackware.
We now return you to the regularly scheduled flame war
Darius wrote:
” “Step 1. apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade”
So, will that put Gnome 2.0 & KDE 3.02 on my machine? ”
At the moment woody will be released anytime soon and developpers are fixing bugs for you. Nice of them.
KDE 3 is there by the way and gnome2 packages are already there (not yet on the mail distribution, but the packages are offered byt Debian developpers).
” Also, how good is the hardware autodetection? Redhat autodetects pretty much all my hardware. Slackware doesn’t autodetect shit
Where does Debian fit in ?”
It fits where you want it to fit. Debian has lot of autodetection packages in main. We have’s Redhat’s kudzu (=the same as redhat, thanks redhat!), an up to date “discover” of progeny, the mandrake hardwaredetect and so on. apt-get install the one you like!
climonkey wrote:
“hardware support… er.. apt-get update ya… what? video support,, umm.. apt-get update, usb support not working right… umm.. apt-get update, what drivers does debian come with? umm.. apt-get update. ”
apt-get install kudzu
apt-get install discover
“am I the only one getting sick of these debian people always running around yelling about apt-get?? Is this all that debian has going for it?”
Nope. But if you weren’t that ignorant about debian you wouldn’t tell this nonsense.
C.
A Linux distribution codenamed…”Limbo”? LOL 😉
This discover package really rocks. I mean the kind how it loads the drivers. In Windows or with Kudzu, it takes a while and then you get a screen showing you your new software, etc. Nice, but I liked that discover just loads the modules. I think this is something to build on. Is discover available for non-debian systems? That would rock.
Perthyl: “And Eric Murphy: Don’t even start with Gentoo/portage. For a normal desktop user it is basically useless.”
That is not quite true. I’m a big Debian fan.
Used it for years and couldn’t immagine anything coming close to it. But Gentoo is awesome for the desktop. Compilation in the background really isn’t much of an issue (on a fast computer) and you get bleeding edge software even easier than with APT. It’s also basically unbreakable, while APT needs a clean system to run at bestform.
And the speed increase, while not beeing that large, is definetly noticable (probably partly caused by the kernel patches though). Gentoo definetly has it’s place besides Debian for running a bleeding edge desktop system.