After creating a program that makes Linux as easy to use as Windows, Miguel de Icaza is trying to make it just as simple to produce open-source versions of thousands of new Windows applications. So why isn’t Microsoft worried? Read the article at Business2.0.
The Penguin Takes Flight
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Eugenia Loli
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are they talking about Gnome?
the article seemed to have most of it down correctly
O.K. is it pronounced Mono like the disease or is the ‘o’ like the ‘o’ in Gnome?
Yoko Ono? Oh no its MoNo
JK
wow. OSS guys actually earn that much money?
I think Miguel is hyping this a bit much. Mono automates bug fixing? Right, whatever.
Gnome could have been done in 1 year instead of 3? Yes…. but they didn’t have to use C to write GNOME. By that logic they could have used Python, or Perl, or Java to write it (with bindings to GTK). But they didn’t. Evolution could have been written in these high level languages which are nearly as productive as C# but they chose to use C, because C is what everybody else uses and for libs, it makes it easier to bind.
Miguel has the right idea as always, but I’m not sure about his implementation. He could simply be encouraging the use of higher level languages, rather than reimplementing .NET – most of the work is already done.
1. It helps them with the legal cases.
2. They know that with changing compatibility in later releases, they may create a situation in which
a. .NET programs written for Windows will not run on Linux.
b. .NET programs written for Linux will keep on running on Windows.
3. In this way, they can approach Linux community and get some of them to their side, such as Icaza.
4. .NET on Linux hurts Java.
> Icaza’s fledgling software project, called Gnome,
> wound up attracting 800 core developers from
> around the world and grew to 2.7 million lines of
> code.
800 core developers ? That’s more than users GNOME has
No kidding I think that GNOME has less than 50 real core developers if so. Why is eveything hyped higher than it really is ?
Because, according to my psychoanalysis based on my psychology master and senses, I think that Icaza has an ego, which would make him leave the world young if he was in a mafia family.
“wow. OSS guys actually earn that much
money?”
There are plently of programmers who are consultants and use nothing but open source tools and easily make six figures. I personally am a networking consultant and make a little less than that, but specialize in deploying and maintaining OSS software.
Only people who aren’t bright enough to make a living with OSS question whether there is a market for it. Deploying and utilizing OSS software is the same as deploying and utilizing proprietary software. One of my best friends is a OSS developer. He routinely uses OSS tools to make his programs and when he delivers them to the client they get the source code as well. It’s not uncommon for him to charge $10,000 for a project
If you all hadn’t noticed Redhat was in the Black for last quarter as well. Maybe forming your own linux distribution isn’t such a good idea, but the notion that you can’t be an OSS consultant and not make a ton of money is just silly.
OSS consulting? Six figures?
Where can I sign up?
> > OSS consulting? Six figures?
> Where can I sign up?
Me too, where can I sign up. I work for half that money.
Are you worth six figures? If you just installed RedHat 8 and think you’re an OSS consultant you got a few things to learn. Sure you can use a GUI to configure an OS, but to make that kind of money you got to know how the thing really works. You almost need to know how to build it from scratch and definitely how to troubleshoot any hardware or software problem on the platform. Google is your friend. You should also kno whow to integrate OSS with Windows, HPUX, Solaris, AIX, OSF, IRIX, etc. Then you might be worth it. I would also expect you to know a few things about shell scripting and programming in perl, C/C++, etc. Oh and low level network troubleshooting and security. Come to think of it I don’t even think I’m worth it.
Anyway, I wouldn’t go giving credit for making the Linux desktop as easy to use as Windows to Miguel de Icaza. Evolution is a fine email client, but I find it annoying when it stops loading because I upgraded Mozilla. I would have recommended it to newbies, but I can’t vouche for its stability. At least not until its staticly compiled. But Nautilus has improved significantly. Its almost usable now.
124² … (124^2) = 15376 developers. No wonder they are able to pull this off.
that they could not also have mono impliment Java, Python, etc.
I’ve told you people 6 month AGO that Miguel de Icaza has a dangerous EGO. This is the reason d’etre of Mono. (Ambiguous name. Monkey in spanish, abrevation for monopolist in English. In psychology, it represents ego.) Nice try Icaza, but I am happy with Java. =)
Oh by the way, did you people heard that Eclipse open source IDE project spawned 3 more open source projects recently?
The two is just a referance number to a footnote at the bottom of the table there. I know what you mean though, I thought the same thing at first.
Java is the only write once, run anywhere solution.
Mono is a Linux solution.
¿Why they don’t port it to another platforms? OS X for instance.
The idea is very good.
But How much memory will require the Gnome system based in mono (.net)?
Like java, the mono virtual machine is very resource hungry, and it requires one virtual machine per running process. I think this will be too heavy!!!
Mono is Monkey in spanish, Ximian is monkey i see a patern
Great I could use another wheel.
My favorite part is where he says if he would have used mono gnome 1 would have been finished in a year. If this was the case why didn’t they use ruby, perl, or even java (it probable has less string attached to it then C#). Gnome is slow and bloated as it is. I would hate to see it if it had been writen in a interpreted language.
“If this was the case why didn’t they use ruby, perl, or even java”
Do you think ruby or perl are faster than java or easier than java. Why did you put “even” in that particular place?
Just curious….
.. is faster than Java, nearly as fast as C. Perl is compiled upon execution, not while it’s executing. It’s not interpeted in the traditional sense. I use it for EVERYTHING, and we’ve benchmarked it against compiled code, and the differences in execution time, were so minute that we didn’t even save the results.
Do you think ruby or perl are faster than java or easier than java.
Sure, Perl and Ruby are faster than Java. Java is too slow to use. I have Python w/ QT gui and it pops up and use a lot quickly than what I can use with jEdit and other Java apps.
The reason that I put even in front of java is because it is a proprietary language and this give it a stronger resemblance to mono.
Does anyone know if mono is going to support the passing of information between application,(a la .Net XML) and if this is so are all of the existing gnome applications going to have to be extended to support this?
It isn’t about being worth six figures. It’s about making others believe that you are. Part of what gets a good income is in making sure that others perceive value in what you have to offer. Sometimes this is all an act, but it’s still up to you, the worker, to either prove your value or to at least imply it. Otherwise, people will pay you as little as they can. Don’t sell yourself short.
.Net has its base language which is C#. JVM has its base language as Java. the diffrence, C# does not and can not have Libs outside the .Net CLI. if you base a system on Java, you can use many external Libs which take time to load into the JVM. C#, once the CLI is loaded, all the libs are loaded. this has the potential to make C# faster than Java. ofcource, until Mono can run all programs from one instance of the Mono CLI, it will be pretty useless as a system API.
OT
Exactly its all perceived value. In reality each and every one of us are worth more than all the money in the world. We are unique and have this amazing ability to be creative and come up with new ideas and inventions that have never previously existed in the world. That’s value. I have no idea what I get paid for. 5 minutes of my time is worth more than all the money I’ll make in my life. But until we all think this way we’ll continue to sell our kids (our future) short, have them work for minimum wage in some redundant repetitive task that could easily be automated if they had the time to think creatively about it. Because its cheaper this way.
Anonymous (—.dip.t-dialin.net)
>>> OSS consulting? Six figures?
>> Where can I sign up?
> Me too, where can I sign up. I work for half that money.
You work for $999 or less?
Who are you? Steve Jobs?!
Sorry, multi-million dollar gifts don’t count.
Wowtip wrote:
> 124² … (124^2) = 15376 developers. No wonder they are able to pull this off.
I had to double-take at that one too. Next they’ll be measuring them exponentially.
Personally, I can’t wait until they start measuring them using integral calculus! At least then, when the media decides that the next Linux Kernel is late, we can say “We have 1234i^2 developers working on it. That’s why it is late – they’re all ‘imaginary!'”
*cough*
Microsoft might as well implement specific stuff natively for windows and only distribute the native dlls for windows.
>> “800 core developers ? That’s more than users GNOME has
”
fsck off, moron.
We all know that you don’t like Gnome, now please go outside where you can play with other kids.
And why do people believe this Mono/C#/VB thing will replace everything?
It won’t, and it never will.
It will only be another choice, just like the C++, perl and other language bindings for Gnome.
“We have 1234i^2 developers working on it. That’s why it is late – they’re all ‘imaginary!'”
But doesn’t i^2 evaluate out to (-1.) If I’m right(highly unlikely) then there are actually negative developers, that might explain the problem.
>> “800 core developers ? That’s more than users
>> GNOME has
”
> fsck off, moron.
would you kindly stop insulting me all the time please ? you are doing this permanently on several pages.
> We all know that you don’t like Gnome
well not liking gnome is one thing, insulting people another.
> > Anonymous (—.dip.t-dialin.net)
> > Me too, where can I sign up. I work for half that
> > money.
> You work for $999 or less?
yes i would. i’m unemployed these days and $999 is more than i get now. therefore i would kindly appreciate getting a clean job for that money. tad more money won’t hurt anyways
124^2 is actually refering to the bottom of the page where that 2 is. It’s really “124 (as of november)”. That got me too. until i looked at the bottom of the page.
Colm:
But doesn’t i^2 evaluate out to (-1.) If I’m right(highly unlikely) then there are actually negative developers, that might explain the problem.
That’s right.
Incidentally, I think that is how they measure the team that works on Windows’ Security patches.
*cough*
yes i would. i’m unemployed these days and $999 is more than i get now.
$999/year?
Hmmm. Assuming 52 x 38 hour work weeks, that’d equate to ~$0.50 hour. Even given that $1USD=~$2AUD, I’d much sooner work at Maccas!
no, $999/Month that’s not much i know but better than nothing. $3000/month would sound better imo.
>>Mono is Monkey in spanish, Ximian is monkey i see a patern <<
To bad Gnome didn’t mean monkey, or does it. Gnome monkeys would be nice. Like a 5 inch tall monkey, with a silly hat and a beard.
you ever start with one naming scheme for something and a bit later think of something way better or very clever and get mad because you started with one and can’t really go back and change it. So you ether can’t use the new one, or you use it and it’s just not the same.
>> “would you kindly stop insulting me all the time please ? you are doing this permanently on several pages. ”
This is the second post and the first one wasn’t even really insulting you.
But Gnome users like me are dumb and cannot remember things like that of course.
>> “well not liking gnome is one thing, insulting people another.”
Trolling.. insulting.. it’s both not a good thing.
If people would stop bashing Desktop Environments / Window Managers this Linux world would be a much better place.
wow i’m sick of CroanoN and all his .NET bashing…you hate .NET…fine…you hate Mono…okay…you don’t like Miguel…no probs…but you have to admit that Mono only has the potential to help Linux…name one way that it can really harm Linux?
microsoft changing APIs/ABIs? won’t hurt apps written for Mono
microsoft suing Mono? it’s open source…could kill Ximian…can’t kill Mono
Mono hurts Java? what a crock of shit…first of all, why should we protect Java if it can’t fend for itself against Mono? and second how is Java a particularly good thing for Linux?
Mono bringing Linux apps to Windows? how is that a problem? ever heard of cygwin? is that an evil project?
Mono seems like a good idea to me…good luck Miguel
-bytes256
BE HAPPY SOMEONE IS TRYING TO PUSH LINUX MORE INTO THE MAINSTREAM YOU FUCKS.
Don’t beat about the bush, Kemical. What is it that you really want to say?
no, $999/Month that’s not much i know but better than nothing. $3000/month would sound better imo.
Hell, I’d love USD$999/Month to sit in an office and hack away. It’d be great to be paid for something that I do anyway…
But “Earning six figure income” doesn’t tend to talk about *monthly* unless you’re Billy Gates, no?
Interstingly, in the article, it states:
“For the last 18 months, Icaza and five over Ximian-paid coders… have directed the work of more than 120 volunteers.”
At the end of the article, the table shows:
Number of Programmers it took to create first version 124^2
(Forgetting the ^2, which apart from the initial smirk factor, was obviously in reference to the ‘footnote’) Last I knew, 5 + 120 != 124.
Or is it the “advanced math” stuffing things up? I know my Calculus teacher constantly determined that 2 * 3 = 5…
C# ist not the only language for the .net CLI nor is it the base language for the .net CLI.
The .net CLI supports features C# doesn’t, e.g. methods with optional parameters which are supported in VB.net.
Both C# and VB.net only support a subset of .net CLI’s features.
/bla
To quote myself:
For the last 18 months, Icaza and five over Ximian-paid coders
Eeek! Misquote! Blushes all round.
Sorry Miguel – that wasn’t supposed to be a jab at you guys. It must have been a Freudian after considering paying myself $999/month!
> ….FUCKS.
do you really have to insult people….btw ur not the only one doing it. Everyone is entitelt to express his own thoughts and ideas, but keep insulting and offending words off the keyboard.
As for MONO; .Net; Linux; OSX, Windows… (who and what have i missed?)…. who cares? as long as i can do my job or have some fun on the computer, i couldn’t care less what OS i’m using. I think that 99% of all users think the same. Private users might look at the purchasing price, but companies don’t …… they are prepared to pay a consultant $300K (AUD) and more per year wether they use free and open source or not. So where is the saving by using Linux or free BSD for these companies? a couple of bucks for not using Xp?
my 2 cents …
That about 124^2 developers was a joke.
But really, footnotes attached to a numerical value can confuse some people. Guess you wouldn’t find a footnote that looked like that in any scientific paper. Or calculus textbook.
“The .net CLI supports features C# doesn’t, e.g. methods with optional parameters which are supported in VB.net.”
Get real….method overloading is MUCH NICER then “optional ” VB thingie.
“Both C# and VB.net only support a subset of .net CLI’s features. ”
What features of the CLI doesn’t C# support ?
> “Get real…method overloading is MUCH NICER then “optional” VB thingie”
it’s not the point if it’s nicer.
i never used vb(.net) so far, but i like the way php/python handles this. if method isn’t called with a paramter, in identifier in the method body gets a default value. sometimes this is easier than method overloading.
> What features of the CLI doesn’t C# support?
Perhaps i used the wrong phrase. It should be “Both C# and VB.net implement a subset of what can be implemented.”
I’am sorry i cannot recall the other differences between C# and VB.net. At a ms persentaion they showed a slide with what can only be done with VB.net and C#. These are very few features but they exist.
/bla