Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 19th Aug 2006 16:11 UTC
Microsoft MSDN's Channel 9 has two videos in their 'Going Deep' series which dive, well, deeper into Singularity, the operating system in development at Microsoft's research department. The first of the two is about, among other things, Software Isolated Processes (SIPs). The second of the two actually shows Singularity in action.
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RE[3]: Its not the kernel
by n4cer on Mon 21st Aug 2006 07:55 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Its not the kernel"
n4cer
Member since:
2005-07-06

All the features you mentioned above could be done by Apple in just 2 years, and it would probably be done better. Microsoft with its huge resources could build up 1 OS in 2 year from scratch if they want to, but they don't. Anyway, the MS design really sucks in comparision with OSs like Apple, linux and Unix; who said that transparency and effects are more important to me than decent shortcut system that is even missing in vista!

Development doesn't work like that for any project. You can't just throw more people at a problem (especially when they wouldn't be familliar with that area) and increase time to market.

Apple tried to build their own OS and failed (see copland). They then used technology from Next, Unix, and open source projects to put together OS X. So no, they couldn't do it in 2 years. MS actually did most of what you wanted, ripped and replaced most of the core functionality with new code in Vista, and did so while also soliciting feedback from their developer community about the APIs, standardizing many of the technologies, and dealing with governments monitoring their moves, and this effort didn't take much longer than it did when they originally created NT, but now you have to find something else to argue about.

Apple, and linux are better handled when working with because everything works with just one set of shortcuts that doesn't change from App to App. And the Graphics Dead Zones in Microsoft shows no respect for small screens, which would be consumed with spaces.

I can only guess you're talking about apps like Word or PhotoShop that have a background space in their document window. If you care about space, resize the app and move its toolbars outside the main window for a more Mac-like experience. If you follow this paradigm however, you're actually taking up a lot more space as you now have seperate toolbars and windows on-screen rather than being contained to their own window.

Internet Explorer and Windows Explorer are booth under developed and way much more old technologies, already available in linux. Check konqueror and its view profiles and tell me if windows Explorer does have something like it that will reduced the clutter of 6 opened windows.

From what I could find on "view profiles" online, it seems that this functionality is available in IE 7 and Explorer. IE 7 allows you to save the tabs of a window. The window's position is automatically saved on exit, but can also be customized via a shortcut. File Previews have been supported in Explorer for years. Their default exposed functionality was scaled back in XP, but you can get it back in various ways, including via WLD Search. Vista brings back their full functionality by default.

MS effort is unfortunately too little too long! and I doubt it would be more interesting like the old days of 1995. And now I am working to replace all my networks to OSX and OSX server for the peace of mind from viruses and instabilities.

If you believe Vista has less to offer that Windows 95, you clearly know very little about the OS. As I said before, Vista's development schedule isn't much different from that of the original NT, and more new functionality has gone into Vista than NT. Most instability in Windows is due to bad hardware or drivers. This isn't a big issue today, but with more code moving to user mode, it'll be even less of an issue starting with Vista. OS X has its share of instabilities as well, as do other OSes. It's gained more exploits via dependence on code used in other OSes and its switch to x86. Viruses are only a matter of time. Good luck with the switch, but it's not a panacea for security or stability.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Its not the kernel
by hraq on Mon 21st Aug 2006 08:59 in reply to "RE[3]: Its not the kernel"
hraq Member since:
2005-07-06

"From what I could find on "view profiles" online, it seems that this functionality is available in IE 7 and Explorer."

No, it's not available as I ran the latest vista build 5472

"I can only guess you're talking about apps like Word or PhotoShop that have a background space in their document window."

No, I am talking about the whole OS GUI windows, wizards, popups and then applications.

"Most instability in Windows is due to bad hardware or drivers."

If we execlude bad hardware the #1 factor for instability is windows reduced immunity, much like AIDS patient; a bad stability of drivers are because of bad windows acceptance for it. Then Comes the #2 Viruses.

"Viruses are only a matter of time."

Tell a mac user this and he'll probably end the discussion with you. Even on linux I use Fedora Core 5 for 8 months without a single unexplained behavior.

"Apple tried to build their own OS and failed (see copland). They then used technology from Next, Unix, and open source projects to put together OS X."

Let me tell you of a worse situation, which was done by MS; Actually they bought MS DOS for couple of thousand Dollars and merely labeled it Microsoft, and next day they implemented it on IBM PCs. What a Great Job. And lets remember the MS backup utility was stolen in the first place.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Its not the kernel
by n4cer on Mon 21st Aug 2006 12:13 in reply to "RE[4]: Its not the kernel"
n4cer Member since:
2005-07-06

If we execlude bad hardware the #1 factor for instability is windows reduced immunity, much like AIDS patient; a bad stability of drivers are because of bad windows acceptance for it.

This is rediculous. Any platform can be brought down by bad kernel mode code. On most OSes, most drivers run in kernel mode.

Then Comes the #2 Viruses. ... Tell a mac user this and he'll probably end the discussion with you. Even on linux I use Fedora Core 5 for 8 months without a single unexplained behavior.

So he ends the conversation. I don't care if he can't take the truth. Many Mac users are known for their denials of virtually anything that doesn't fit what Steve Jobs tells them. Viruses are an inevitability. When virus writers deem the Mac to be worthy of their time and money, they'll write viruses for it. Apple has lowered the barriers to entry significantly by using shared code and switching to x86. If there are people hacking around Apple's code to run MacOS on their PCs, there's probably people out there that will eventually start creating viruses. In some cases, they wouldn't even have to change their code and they'd be able to exploit MacOS and *n*x. Anyone thinking they're safe just because they're running a Mac is sorely mistaken. Both *n*x and Apple computers have had viruses written for them in the past.


Let me tell you of a worse situation, which was done by MS; Actually they bought MS DOS for couple of thousand Dollars and merely labeled it Microsoft, and next day they implemented it on IBM PCs. What a Great Job. And lets remember the MS backup utility was stolen in the first place.

More like $50+ thousand, and they didn't just stick the MS-DOS name on it and give it to IBM. On top of paying SCP/Tim Paterson (DOS' developer) for his work, they also hired him, and it took them nine months to develop the OS to meet IBM's specifications. Their backup utility wasn't stolen. You are thinking of their compression utility, which also wasn't stolen. It did, however, infringe on patents held by Stac Electronics. None of this has anything to do with NT and the fact that MS has provided a from-scratch OS before, has replaced and upgraded several systems since, and with Vista, has come a lot closer to doing a from-scratch OS again than Apple has.

Reply Parent Score: 1