Linked by Martin Girard on Tue 12th Sep 2006 13:57 UTC
Linux You must remember the period where various electronic devices, from phones to radios, were available in transparent cases. You may have found them utterly cool. Yet the simple fact that you can't find these things on the shelves anymore (except for do-it-yourself PC cases) means the crowd doesn't find them nearly that cool. While you may not see the link yet, this is exactly why the Linux desktop will never be popular.
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RE[3]: Baloney
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 12th Sep 2006 14:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Baloney"
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

Most people think Windows is the PC, so if you bring in an almost like Windows desktop they will use it, and if the can use it without trouble then why should they change it?

Until they see that they can't videochat woth other MSN users, until the see that the app that got sent to them by cousin Vinnie don't work, until they see the documents they get from other students and teachers render incorrectly, etc. etc.

Getting Linux on the desktop isn't as easy as it seems. It's a great system, and definitely 'ready' for normal people, but as long as there's a Windows monoculture, and everyone else is using Windows and Windows-based files, giving Linux to normal people is impossible. No matter how good the system is.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Baloney
by charlieg on Tue 12th Sep 2006 15:09 in reply to "RE[3]: Baloney"
charlieg Member since:
2005-07-25

I know hardly anybody who uses video chat let alone MSN video chat. And there is plenty of good software for video conferencing like Ekiga that works with NetMeeting and other main protocols:

www.gnomemeeting.org

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: Baloney
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 12th Sep 2006 15:12 in reply to "RE[4]: Baloney"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I know hardly anybody who uses video chat let alone MSN video chat. And there is plenty of good software for video conferencing like Ekiga that works with NetMeeting and other main protocols:

Welcome to Europe, where MSN has the biggest marketshare of the IM market. MSN on Linux is understandably miles behind the official client, and that just plain SUCKS. When the girl I met at the pub last night wants to do some advanced MSN stuff, Kopete/GAIM/aMSN just don't cut it.

As for Ekiga, get real. It is good, but besides three men and a cow, who really uses it?

Edited 2006-09-12 15:13

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Baloney
by markjensen on Tue 12th Sep 2006 15:34 in reply to "RE[3]: Baloney"
markjensen Member since:
2005-07-26

Until they see that they can't videochat woth other MSN users, until the see that the app that got sent to them by cousin Vinnie don't work, until they see the documents they get from other students and teachers render incorrectly, etc. etc.

Video chat? I didn't use that much as a Windows user, so no loss there for me. I have heard that Mercury and/or aMSN work for MSN video chat, but I have no experience with that.

Running apps emailed to you? I don't know if it is a good idea to run email attachments, but unless you are a software developer, this likely isn't a big item. Wine has worked for me for what little I need from "Windows only" apps. Most of these are likely basic little apps and utilities, not Photoshop or MS Office apps Vinnie is sending? Right?

Document incompatbility? I haven't had that in the nearly 4 years of 100% Linux. People send me Word and Excel files. I open them. Life is good.

You are making it sound like Linux is unusable as a desktop system. It is not. It is OK to have needs that are not met by a Linux system (for example, perhaps you and your cousin Vinnie are developers for a Windows app, so you require a Windows system to develop and test).

But it is not "impossible" for a normal person to use.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: Baloney
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 12th Sep 2006 15:42 in reply to "RE[4]: Baloney"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Document incompatbility? I haven't had that in the nearly 4 years of 100% Linux. People send me Word and Excel files. I open them. Life is good.

Yes, you open them. I am talking about little differences. For instance, when you have a document with a frontpage (title, name, studentnumber, course info, etc) after which, on the 2nd page, the actual report starts, you position the first header carefully to align with the top of page 2 (assuming there's no need for an index page). You do this in Word.

Then open it in Writer. Big chance, esp. with a bit more complicated documents, that all this alignment is now fcuked up. And this is just one example.

Another exmaple is how Writer does not seem to properly support commenting and teacher changes/remarks. Until things like this are resolved, no chance in hell I'll be able to depend on OOo. I need to be 100% sure that whatever reports/articles I write, they appear 100% correctly on other people's Word installations.

You are making it sound like Linux is unusable as a desktop system.

Don't talk nonsense. I literally said: "It's a great system, and definitely 'ready' for normal people, but as long as there's a Windows monoculture, and everyone else is using Windows and Windows-based files, giving Linux to normal people is impossible. No matter how good the system is."

Edited 2006-09-12 15:43

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Baloney
by aent on Tue 12th Sep 2006 16:29 in reply to "RE[3]: Baloney"
aent Member since:
2006-01-25

But don't you and at least other people say that Apple is growing, since its so much better then Windows? It has the same exact problems as Linux. If I send a Windows program to run on a Mac, it won't work. You can't even connect to MSN on iChat, the default app on macs, whereas on Linux the default app (gaim or kopete) CAN connect to MSN in addition to AIM and Jabber. I stand to say that if giving Linux to people is impossible no matter how good the system is, then giving Macs to the people is also impossible, and therefore Apple is bound to fail (as they don't even have the server market). If Linux has no chance of succeeding for this reason, Apple is dead meat.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: Baloney
by hobgoblin on Wed 13th Sep 2006 11:08 in reply to "RE[4]: Baloney"
hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

i do belive there is a downloadable msn messenger version for mac. got a friend that uses a ibook, and i have seen him active on msn using said ibook...

btw, isnt ichat jabber? im guessing that you could aim it at a non-apple jabber server. and some of those have "bridges" for accessing msn, aim and yahoo.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Baloney
by aent on Wed 13th Sep 2006 14:40 in reply to "RE[4]: Baloney"
aent Member since:
2006-01-25

None of those methods allow for webcam support, which is what Thom mentioned as a reason that Linux (and thus Mac OS X) can't succeed, and in addition, the official client for OS X isn't included with the OS, which still makes the situation with Macs worse then Linux for people trying to connect ot MSN.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Baloney
by Sphinx on Wed 13th Sep 2006 00:33 in reply to "RE[3]: Baloney"
Sphinx Member since:
2005-07-09

There are brand new users every day who think you're talking about a cable news channel.

Reply Parent Score: 1