Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 30th Nov 2006 22:51 UTC
Novell and Ximian Novell on Nov. 30 announced its latest NetWare upgrade operating system, the Linux-powered Novell Open Enterprise Server 2. OES, which will be based on Novell's SLES 10, is designed to be a drop-in replacement for Novell NetWare servers, and a direct competitor to Microsoft's Server 2003.
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RE: There's that linux hater!
by crazybob on Fri 1st Dec 2006 02:25 UTC in reply to "There's that linux hater!"
Member since:

I don't think they hate Linux but rather don't understand the FOSS community's ethics. The community at large expects the rest of the community to share, but what Novell did was really anti-community.

One statement made by Novell's CEO demonstrating this is he admits the deal, in business eyes, gives Novell an advantage over the competition. Competion meaning Red Hat, who just happens to be one of the suppliers of Novell's software, and who just happens to be a community member as well. Novell screwing Red Hat means Novell is screwing themselves down the road.

To me, it just didn't seem like Novell had any idea what they were doing because of the flippant attitude towards and the underestimation of the community's reaction as well as doing business with MS so willingly given MS's reputation and Novell's history with MS.

But I am sure Novell doesn't hate Linux. They just don't understand the community they rely on and became a part of.

Reply Parent Score: 5

sbergman27 Member since:

Hmmm. So far in this thread, we have a semi-provocative post, a request for information, a response to that, a very reasonable response to the original semi-provocative post... and then we have a thoroughly inflammatory post from NotParker, prompted by some unknown cue.

There's a little foam there at the corner of your mouth, NotParker. ;-)

Edited 2006-12-01 04:44

Reply Parent Score: 5

Ventajou Member since:

The community they rely on is called their customer base. Sorry to break the news to you but Novell is a business and they're in there to make money.

They don't back Linux out of charitable spirit but because they have decided that Linux would be part of their strategy. It is therefore important for them that Linux becomes better.

Whatever choices they make, they'll do it because:
- it gives them an advantage over the competition.
- it's a good PR/marketing move.
- it gives them a tax break.
- or whatever other reason they think will help bring them more cash in the long term.

Considering that Red Hat is in the business of server OS, then Red Hat is obviously a competitor. It is only natural that Novell tries to have an edge over them.

Reply Parent Score: 5

deanlinkous Member since:

You just stated the exact reason commercial linux distros fail. All they think about is the business aspect and not being a community player as well. They aren't mutually exclusive. Rock on REDHAT!
Novell what? That washed up directory service server OS makeshift company..... Are they still around?

Reply Parent Score: 1

2fargone Member since:

Novell uses Linux because Linux is more advanced than what Novell had prior. It's that simple. Novell needs Linux, not the other way around.

Now, for your statement about the community they rely on is their customer base, that's the exact reason why Novell is being abandoned by large segments of the OSS/FOSS community. Let them keep thinking that, especially when SUSE and Novell are the piriah of OSS and as a consequence having to support forks of all the projects that have abandoned them.

The whole problem with your post is IMO you don't understand OSS/FOSS like Novell doesn't. Novell isn't in a vacuum, nor are they an island. Novell is a BIT player, a big one, but still a bit player in a larger community.

Novell acted in a way that bettered themselves at the expense of the community. And not only did the put the preasure on Red Hat, they also put the pressure on ALL developers, users, and supporters of Linux, OSS, and FOSS, including themselves in 5-6 years. Pressure a certain monopoly wants to use to either kill, tax, or embrace & extend many OSS projects with.

Novell shot itself in the foot because it acted just like you said they should as a business who doesn't care about it's suppliers. I've read comments and posts from others who are not Novell customers but Novell uses their software and they are not happy. Not one bit. And it's going to bite Novell in the ass if they don't hurry up and make amends with the community they've offended.

Reply Parent Score: 3

gilboa Member since:

You seems to ignore three things.
A. If you look back, you'll find that most of MS' 'close' partner's were either bought my MS or killed by it. Just look at the recent McAfee/Symantec vs. Microsoft Adware-removal-tool and the Vista-kernel-API controversies and you'll understand what I mean. (BTW, I work for a close MS partner. Only God will help us if MS decides to re-evaluate our partnership...)

B. Novel writes a very small part of the software it distribute - much less then RedHat (which has many hands in kernel, gcc, gnome, etc). Team up with Microsoft to kill RedHat and you'll end-up screwing yourself.

C. If MS start suing world+dog over IP infringement (Using the Novel deal as a proof) it's will either kill the OSS movement (If MS wins) or alienate the OSS community (If MS loses). In both cases Novel's flag-ship product will be damaged, if not killed.

Ignoring for a second the Novel + Microsoft vs. OSS/GPL controversy, Novel chose a short term gain (or money) that may kill them in the long term. There's a name for doing just that: Being a short-sighted idiot. (Excuse my language) *

- Gilboa
* Though Novel execs might be pulling a SCO - read: teaming up with MS to kick the stock price up and bail out before all hell breaks loose. In this case Novel execs are not idiots - just greedy bustards.

Edited 2006-12-01 15:54

Reply Parent Score: 1

jakesdad Member since:

Business's make deals all the time. The issue is, it is with MS... If Novell had made an agreement exactly like this with Redhat it wouldnt be an issue.

Reply Parent Score: 1

grat Member since:

Business's make deals all the time. The issue is, it is with MS... If Novell had made an agreement exactly like this with Redhat it wouldnt be an issue.

Unfortunately, what you just said is that the F/OSS is a bunch of rabid anti-Microsoft zealots.

If Novell (or any other Linux vendor) made a deal like this with any other company besides Microsoft, I would like to think the community would be just as violently opposed.

But I suspect they wouldn't be.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Xaero_Vincent Member since:

Business's make deals all the time. The issue is, it is with MS... If Novell had made an agreement exactly like this with Redhat it wouldnt be an issue.


If Novell and RedHat developed a patent deal over GPL software and decided not to share that covenent with the larger community, they would be subject to the same terms imposed by the GPLv3.

Both companies would be forced not to ship GPLv3 software until they modified their patent deals.

Edited 2006-12-01 17:26

Reply Parent Score: 1