Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 23rd Dec 2006 17:45 UTC
X11, Window Managers Apparently, my article a few days ago caused a bigger stir than I had anticipated, not at all unrelated to the fact that my wordings may not have been optimal. So, let me clarify things a bit.
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RE[6]: Thom's cool
by tux68 on Sun 24th Dec 2006 15:16 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Thom's cool"
tux68
Member since:
2006-10-24

Browse through the comments to see my point proven.
Not to mention all the talk that has been going on outside of OSnews, concerning Thom and his article.


Well I would ask you to browse through those same comments and notice how many emotion filled and name calling (hypocrites etc) post there were from the other side. Some from Thom himself.

Since human nature is involved, there will be people on each side of an issue that fail to keep it civil. But that is _no reason_ to denounce an entire community. There were vastly more people from the community who didn't post at all, than who did. Are your comments about the community fair to them? Such comments just adds to the ill will and gets in the way of productive discourse.

It just amazes me every time again, that whenever there is 'negative' news about Linux, the reactions are far more fiery, flaming even, than when there is 'negative' news about for example MicroSoft or Apple. This is not a view, or a opinion, but a simple fact, which I felt like pointing out.

There's no doubt that many people do feel strongly about these issues. But if Thom had posted a rational article that discussed features that were lacking in Linux, and maybe had done some research (like interviewing a developer etc), it would have gone a long way to a more civil debate.

He even used the phrase "anti-MS fanboys" in his article. Do you think that is appropriate? Do you want to tell Thom that anti-MS fanboys only exist in the minds of his group? I didn't think so. Why do you think Thom felt compelled to make such provocative remarks rather than stick to the merits of his argument? Don't you think that maybe he _deserves_ some of the reaction he got? He still hasn't apologized for this part of his article. He went on in this thread to rant about people being hypocrites, instead of staying on topic about the merit of his case.

I guess the point i'm trying to make is that there is room on _both_ sides to reduce emotionalism and irrationality. I don't think there was a disproportionate donation of either from the people who spoke out against Thom's article, although regrettably there was some.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Thom's cool
by Lava_Croft on Sun 24th Dec 2006 15:57 in reply to "RE[6]: Thom's cool"
Lava_Croft Member since:
2006-12-24

But that is _no reason_ to denounce an entire community.

Yes, since the people who feel spoken to are the people who I was referring to.

He even used the phrase "anti-MS fanboys" in his article. Do you think that is appropriate?

Yes, because it is a simple fact that it is very, very common among Linux users, much more so than among Windows or Mac users.

He still hasn't apologized for this part of his article.

Maybe it's just me, but I did not find anything in either article that would justify an apology. Help me out here, if you will.

I guess the point i'm trying to make is that there is room on _both_ sides to reduce emotionalism and irrationality.

Absolutely right, until I read...

I don't think there was a disproportionate donation of either from the people who spoke out against Thom's article

Well, I think there was, and is, which is the reason I posted in the first place.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[8]: Thom's cool
by tux68 on Sun 24th Dec 2006 16:20 in reply to "RE[7]: Thom's cool"
tux68 Member since:
2006-10-24

Yes, since the people who feel spoken to are the people who I was referring to.

But it would be nice if you could acknowledge that the people you're speaking about are a minority instead of making sweeping statements about an entire community. Should we say "white people are racist" and just ask all those that don't "feel spoken to", to ignore it? No we should be more careful than that, lets maintain some civility.

Yes, because it is a simple fact that it is very, very common among Linux users, much more so than among Windows or Mac users

Oh really? You've done a scientific study have you? It's perhaps _claimed_ more often against the Linux community, yet i've not seen any real evidence of it. So your sense of absolute fact about the matter is a bit troubling.

There are lots anti-MS people in the Apple world. And it seems to me there are just as many anti-Linux people in the Windows world. Of course I have no better way to measure that than you do, but that's kinda my point. Why would you be so bold as to claim that this group of people only exists in the minds of Linux people? It seems you're allowing yourself a bit of a double standard.

Maybe it's just me, but I did not find anything in either article that would justify an apology. Help me out here, if you will.

Well the things he apologized for in his second article were a good start. However using language like "anti-Ms fanboys" isn't serious commentary, it's just emotionalism. It did nothing to further the central argument of his article, and tries to dismiss everyone who disagrees with his assertion as just an "anti-MS fanboy". That's just intellectually bankrupt and not a serious argument; if he cares about such things an apology wouldn't be misplaced.

It would also be nice if he acknowledged the sheer lack of research he conducted, and the amount of idle speculation he relied on. Look at the number of points that have been made to try to highlight where he erred and what he failed to consider in his reasoning.

His calling people hypocrites would be another thing to apologize for.

Absolutely right, until I read...

Well if you admit that it's a problem on both sides, it would be nice if your comments would reflect it. It's not just a problem of how the Linux community reacts, it's also a problem about how their opposites conduct themselves. As a leader of this web site, it would be nice if Thom set a good example instead of being part of the problem.

Edited 2006-12-24 16:21

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[8]: Thom's cool
by rtfa on Fri 29th Dec 2006 16:53 in reply to "RE[7]: Thom's cool"
rtfa Member since:
2006-02-27

"Maybe it's just me, but I did not find anything in either article that would justify an apology. Help me out here, if you will."

perhaps you shouldn't be commenting on something you admit you didn't understand - i.e. the nonsense that Thom put in his "article" -

Are you a "created" sympathic user in disguise? e.g. Eugina or Thom under a pseudonym?

Reply Parent Score: 1