Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 23rd Dec 2006 17:45 UTC
X11, Window Managers Apparently, my article a few days ago caused a bigger stir than I had anticipated, not at all unrelated to the fact that my wordings may not have been optimal. So, let me clarify things a bit.
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RE[7]: Thom's cool
by Lava_Croft on Sun 24th Dec 2006 15:57 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Thom's cool"
Lava_Croft
Member since:
2006-12-24

But that is _no reason_ to denounce an entire community.

Yes, since the people who feel spoken to are the people who I was referring to.

He even used the phrase "anti-MS fanboys" in his article. Do you think that is appropriate?

Yes, because it is a simple fact that it is very, very common among Linux users, much more so than among Windows or Mac users.

He still hasn't apologized for this part of his article.

Maybe it's just me, but I did not find anything in either article that would justify an apology. Help me out here, if you will.

I guess the point i'm trying to make is that there is room on _both_ sides to reduce emotionalism and irrationality.

Absolutely right, until I read...

I don't think there was a disproportionate donation of either from the people who spoke out against Thom's article

Well, I think there was, and is, which is the reason I posted in the first place.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[8]: Thom's cool
by tux68 on Sun 24th Dec 2006 16:20 in reply to "RE[7]: Thom's cool"
tux68 Member since:
2006-10-24

Yes, since the people who feel spoken to are the people who I was referring to.

But it would be nice if you could acknowledge that the people you're speaking about are a minority instead of making sweeping statements about an entire community. Should we say "white people are racist" and just ask all those that don't "feel spoken to", to ignore it? No we should be more careful than that, lets maintain some civility.

Yes, because it is a simple fact that it is very, very common among Linux users, much more so than among Windows or Mac users

Oh really? You've done a scientific study have you? It's perhaps _claimed_ more often against the Linux community, yet i've not seen any real evidence of it. So your sense of absolute fact about the matter is a bit troubling.

There are lots anti-MS people in the Apple world. And it seems to me there are just as many anti-Linux people in the Windows world. Of course I have no better way to measure that than you do, but that's kinda my point. Why would you be so bold as to claim that this group of people only exists in the minds of Linux people? It seems you're allowing yourself a bit of a double standard.

Maybe it's just me, but I did not find anything in either article that would justify an apology. Help me out here, if you will.

Well the things he apologized for in his second article were a good start. However using language like "anti-Ms fanboys" isn't serious commentary, it's just emotionalism. It did nothing to further the central argument of his article, and tries to dismiss everyone who disagrees with his assertion as just an "anti-MS fanboy". That's just intellectually bankrupt and not a serious argument; if he cares about such things an apology wouldn't be misplaced.

It would also be nice if he acknowledged the sheer lack of research he conducted, and the amount of idle speculation he relied on. Look at the number of points that have been made to try to highlight where he erred and what he failed to consider in his reasoning.

His calling people hypocrites would be another thing to apologize for.

Absolutely right, until I read...

Well if you admit that it's a problem on both sides, it would be nice if your comments would reflect it. It's not just a problem of how the Linux community reacts, it's also a problem about how their opposites conduct themselves. As a leader of this web site, it would be nice if Thom set a good example instead of being part of the problem.

Edited 2006-12-24 16:21

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[9]: Thom's cool
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 24th Dec 2006 16:34 in reply to "RE[8]: Thom's cool"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Well the things he apologized for in his second article were a good start. However using language like "anti-Ms fanboys" isn't serious commentary."

Anti-MS Fanboy. Can you give me a better term for people who literally write [1]: "He openly admits that he uses Vista and loves it. That tells you where he's coming from."? I call these kind of people anti-MS fanboys, and I sincerely don't give a damn if they are from the Linux, Apple, or underpants world. Totally irrelevant.

it's just emotionalism.

No, it is fact. If you claim nothing positive can be written about anything Microsoft, you are an anti-MS zealot, fanboy, or whatever.

As a leader of this web site, it would be nice if Thom set a good example instead of being part of the problem.

I refuse to sugar coat my words just because I might step on developers' toes. They are just people, not gods. If they are doing something wrong, whatever that may be, I will tell them so, whether they work for free or not. Just like I complain about Apple ruining their operating system with their 93827329857 different themes; just like I criticise Microsoft for not letting go of backwards compatibility in order to really show what the NT kernel can do.

I am indeed part of the problem, but only because I want to say things as they are. However, you will NEVER see me get personal or impolite in an article, something which cannot be said of some others (no hard feelings Aaron, you already sort-of apoligised).

It's time for Christmas now, and during Christmas I will publish another article about KDE-- but this time 'round about all the things I do to make KDE work like I want it to (what themes, what settings, etc). If that ain't an olive branch, I don't know what is ;) .

[1] http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=7615673&postID=116680687023... , the comment by 'louis'.

Edited 2006-12-24 16:36

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[9]: Thom's cool
by Lava_Croft on Sun 24th Dec 2006 17:14 in reply to "RE[8]: Thom's cool"
Lava_Croft Member since:
2006-12-24

But it would be nice if you could acknowledge that the people you're speaking about are a minority instead of making sweeping statements about an entire community.

I would not go as far as to call it a minority.
In my 14-odd years of having used Windows, I can safely say that the only people who would ever riducule me for using Windows, were indeed Linux users. I have yet to meet a Windows user that ridicules a Linux user merely for the fact that he uses Linux. I post my own opinions here, based on my own experiences, balanced out against what I read on OSnews, and outside of OSnews.

And it seems to me there are just as many anti-Linux people in the Windows world.

How come I never meet such people then? And I spend most of my time among Windows users, not Linux users, mind you.

Well if you admit that it's a problem on both sides, it would be nice if your comments would reflect it.

While there is a problem on both sides, there is only one side that constantly feels the need to lash out to the other side at every pitiful opportunity they get. Since Thom thankfully does not seem to care for the fragile feelings of the Linux community and dares to write an article that is negative about Linux, you have yet another chance of pointing out how superior you are, and how inferior the rest is. That is what the real problem is. Inferiority complex? 'Esperanto complex'? I don't know.

What I do know, is that it's time to get ready for Christmas eve, and to prepare my body for the oncoming flood of food. Take care.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[8]: Thom's cool
by rtfa on Fri 29th Dec 2006 16:53 in reply to "RE[7]: Thom's cool"
rtfa Member since:
2006-02-27

"Maybe it's just me, but I did not find anything in either article that would justify an apology. Help me out here, if you will."

perhaps you shouldn't be commenting on something you admit you didn't understand - i.e. the nonsense that Thom put in his "article" -

Are you a "created" sympathic user in disguise? e.g. Eugina or Thom under a pseudonym?

Reply Parent Score: 1