Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 2nd May 2007 19:17 UTC, submitted by WillM
Mono Project "The Mono open-source project will create a Linux version of Silverlight by the end of year, said Miguel de Icaza, a Novell vice president and head of Mono. At the Mix '07 conference on Monday, Microsoft touted the ability to write Silverlight Web applications that run on Internet Explorer, Firefox and the Safari browser on Mac OS. Next up for Silverlight is an edition for mobile devices, including Windows Mobile. Asked about plans for Linux, Microsoft executives have been non-committal, saying that it will depend on demand. But de Icaza, who is attending Mix, was able to commit without hesitating."
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Suicide?
by pgquiles on Wed 2nd May 2007 19:35 UTC
pgquiles
Member since:
2006-07-16

What is Icaza trying to do? Kill Linux?

Reply Score: 5

RE: Suicide?
by GhePeU on Wed 2nd May 2007 19:41 in reply to "Suicide?"
GhePeU Member since:
2005-07-06

What is Icaza trying to do? Kill Linux?

I don't understand how improving compatibility with a technology that potentially could be used by many web sites could "kill Linux".

Support for WMV files is a must and everybody blames the distros who don't support them out of the box but allowing Linux users to use the future Silverlight web applications is bad?

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Suicide?
by hamster on Wed 2nd May 2007 19:47 in reply to "RE: Suicide?"
hamster Member since:
2006-10-06

"I don't understand how improving compatibility with a technology that potentially could be used by many web sites could "kill Linux". "

You cant make all people happy. Trying will only get them all mad at you.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Suicide?
by walterbyrd on Wed 2nd May 2007 20:17 in reply to "RE: Suicide?"
walterbyrd Member since:
2005-12-31

>>allowing Linux users to use the future Silverlight web applications is bad?<<

Yes, if it's part of msft's embrace, extend, extingish, strategy.

Consider what Microsoft did with ActiveX. They pushed ActiveX as cross-platform, delivering an ActiveX SDK for the Mac and supporting ActiveX components in IE.

Then after a while, they dropped ActiveX support, saying it was too much effort to make it work on OS X.

Then after a while longer, they dropped IE too.

Same with WMV. Seen Windows Media Player for the Mac? No? That's because they dropped it a while back, and killed all support for DRM-protected Windows Media on the Mac. (Instead they suggest that people use a third party QuickTime plugin that only handles unprotected WMV.)

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Suicide?
by baadger on Wed 2nd May 2007 20:17 in reply to "RE: Suicide?"
baadger Member since:
2006-08-29

"WMV3" (the WMV codec that was introduced by Microsoft with WMP9 and above) only got native support on *nix/BSD in ffmpeg (and hence mplayer, xine and gstreamer) recently, and I think that was party due to the format (now known as VC-1) becoming documented for HD DVD and Bluray.

Personally i'm all for FOSS implementing formats that are formally, and well, documented whether they come from Microsoft or not.

I look forward to my "-silverlight" USE flag.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Suicide?
by kaiwai on Thu 3rd May 2007 04:56 in reply to "RE: Suicide?"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't understand how improving compatibility with a technology that potentially could be used by many web sites could "kill Linux".


I don't understand it either; Microsoft actually benefits; lets assume that Microsoft starts demanding royalties for the technology - then one assumes that you can purchase them.

Right now you can purchase WMA/WMV/ASF CODEC from Fluendo, which are derived directly from Microsoft's own source code - compression support will be provided apparently sometime this year.

To Microsoft, sure, they want people to run Windows, but at the same time, they realise that for people to get on in this world, they need Microsoft technology - be it delivered through Windows or through other operating systems, Microsoft benefits either way.

Hence the reason why Microsoft is so tiffy about their patents, because ultimately patents are Microsofts lifeline, without that lifeline, they would then have to go back and actually develop technology and compete on merit rather than tie up compatible products from competitors with legalese.

Support for WMV files is a must and everybody blames the distros who don't support them out of the box but allowing Linux users to use the future Silverlight web applications is bad?


The only people who complain about it is the GNU fundamentalists who want free code, free software and free love - the reality is that there is a muddy middle ground; ESR see's it, and many other former GNU advocates now see it.

Now, if it requires that I might have to pay $20 for a CODEC kit so that I can run WMA/WMV/ASF content, I'm happy to do that; if Microsoft came out and offered a complete CLR/DLR/SilverLight for OpenSolaris and it costs $50, I would be more than happy to pay for it.

The problem with Microsoft is that they assume that everyone who isn't running a Microsoft operating system is obviously some sort of nut - some of us don't run Windows because they don't like how things are done - we prefer the UNIX way *BUT* at the same time, it doesn't mean we hate Microsoft or hate their applications.

Microsoft Office and their whole middle ware ecosystem is pretty damn good - its a diamond in the rough, its up to Microsoft to ignore the nuts, and just put those those mentioned frameworks out there, and see how things go - let people purchase and download them.

Believe me, if Microsoft offered these technologies for OpenSolaris tomorrow, I would purchase them straight away, and I know many who would too - just because we're not noisy and vocal doesn't mean we're not here.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Suicide?
by l3v1 on Thu 3rd May 2007 07:03 in reply to "RE: Suicide?"
l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

Support for WMV files is a must

I completely disagree. And I say again: why should everybody else work and die trying to create compatibility bridges that MS with its resources is not willing to make and even stands in the way ? It's not just MS who has good technology, and by dividing the efforts we will have less resources concentrating on bettering FOSS and not-FOSS alternatives, and at the same time it's MS who will benefit from this. We should just try to stop praising our redmond overlords for a while and think they are the only ones capable of creating technology worth mimicing.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Suicide?
by viton on Thu 3rd May 2007 09:01 in reply to "RE: Suicide?"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

I don't understand how improving compatibility with a technology that potentially could be used by many web sites could "kill Linux".
Microsoft is pushing their own standards to kill the competitors in their usual way.
Kill netscape/java/jpeg/pdf/flash etc.

-How to discredit the standard (c)MS-
Create incompatible software and force majority of people to use incompatible "extensions".

Edited 2007-05-03 09:02

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Suicide?
by deanlinkous on Wed 2nd May 2007 20:34 in reply to "Suicide?"
deanlinkous Member since:
2006-06-19

That is my feeling too. Following down the MS trail is not on my to-do list...

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Suicide?
by suslik on Wed 2nd May 2007 20:58 in reply to "Suicide?"
suslik Member since:
2005-07-27

No, what he is trying to do is help MS kick Adobe in the gonads.... which is long overdue

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Suicide?
by kaiwai on Thu 3rd May 2007 05:24 in reply to "RE: Suicide?"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

No, what he is trying to do is help MS kick Adobe in the gonads.... which is long overdue


True; and want to know what really annoys me - Adobe and their refusal to provide software for *NIX.

Look at Microsoft in one corner, be it in an unofficial capacity, they're working and encouraging the use of technology - they haven't stamped out Mono, but they haven't encouraged it either.

With that being said; lets be honest, they've got their own platform, thats what they're focused on - making sure that their technologies work best on the platform they sell.

What confuses me is the other corner; you have Adobe one of the vocal critics of Microsoft and yet has done NOTHING to bring their applications to *NIX.

Where is their flash/flex/web/etc development tools for *NIX? where is their Creative Suite for *NIX? I see the constant bashing of XPS and yet, where is their PDF creation tools for other platforms besides Windows? why not *NIX? Sun offered to pay for the porting of Adobe Acrobat to Solaris x86, and Adobe refused to do it - why?

I find it funny when I see people here swoon around Adobe and standing up for it - what have Adobe done for *NIX? I'd sooner be in bed with Microsoft, at least you know where you stand with Microsoft versus Adobe who says one thing (bash Microsoft) and do a completely different thing (refuse to provide their complete software portfolio on *NIX).

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Suicide?
by ebasconp on Wed 2nd May 2007 21:04 in reply to "Suicide?"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

de Icaza looks for interoperability between Windows and Linux; the sad side of the story is that he wants to achieve that goal putting Windows technology on the Linux side... if that is a noble goal, it implies that Linux will be always one step behind on using the same technology.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: Suicide?
by buff on Thu 3rd May 2007 13:51 in reply to "Suicide?"
buff Member since:
2005-11-12

What is Icaza trying to do? Kill Linux?

I think Icaza has good intentions. He wants to really bring a cross platform standard to Linux. He is a bright and highly motivated individual. He just really hasn't thought through entirely the legal/political factors involved in using MS tech. In the legal area he is being a little naive.

Reply Parent Score: 2