Linked by Eugenia Loli on Fri 26th Oct 2007 05:34 UTC, submitted by WillM
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y "Experts say that migrations from Unix to Linux have slowed down because all the low-hanging fruit has now been picked. Linux growth in the U.S. x86 server market has, over the past six quarters, started to falter and reverse its positive course relative to Windows Server and the market as a whole." More here.
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IanSVT
Member since:
2005-07-06

What have Novell done in the past four years with respect to the competition? Other than not actually compete with their competitors and sign a deal with said competitor that says "Pretty please, don't hurt us!", they have done absolutely nothing.


Uh oh, here we go again! ;)

In the past four years, Novell has done the following:

-Ported NCP to linux
-Ported NSS to linux
-Ported eDirectory to linux(cross platform enabled to span over NetWare, Linux, and Windows)
-Ported GroupWise to linux(cross platform enabled to span over NetWare, Linux, and Windows)
-Built the next generation Zen platform on linux
-Ported NDPS/iPrint to linux
-Rebuilt part(server.exe) of NetWare to be virtual machine aware.
-Ported DNS/DHCP directory integrated services to linux.

That's just a snip-it. Has Novell done a good job selling their products? Clearly not. Can they do a better job with many facets of their business? Absolutely. Has Novell "done absolutely nothing" in the past four years? That is about as incorrect of a statement as you can make on the subject.

Edited 2007-10-26 12:58

Reply Parent Score: 8

segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

In the past four years, Novell has done the following:

-Ported NCP to linux
-Ported NSS to linux


So what? Porting stuff to Linux doesn't amount to getting anything done to arrest the haemorrhaging of Netware customers. It isn't magically going to make things happen and move them forwards.

-Ported eDirectory to linux(cross platform enabled to span over NetWare, Linux, and Windows)

Why is it cross-platform with Windows? I thought Novell were selling me something that was better? You see, this is where Novell fails. Would people like to have choice and see Exchange run on Linux? Yes. Is it going to happen? No. Microsoft doesn't compromise on this stuff, which is how they pull sales of Outlook, Exchange and Windows servers along.

-Ported GroupWise to linux(cross platform enabled to span over NetWare, Linux, and Windows)

See above. Groupwise is dead Novell. Do yourself a favour and start using Kolab or OpenGroupware or something like that so people actually know about what it is that you use.

-Built the next generation Zen platform on linux

Quite frankly, I have not been impressed with Zenworks. As far as I can tell, much of what Novell have been doing is writing stuff in .Net and then assuming it can just be ported to Linux using Mono. I don't call that making Linux a first-class citizen.

Most OpenSuse users' experience of Zenworks and Novell's enterprise tools has been less than perfect, shall we say, just so others know what I might be talking about.

-Ported NDPS/iPrint to linux

Yay! At best I can do everything I did before.

-Rebuilt part(server.exe) of NetWare to be virtual machine aware.

Wow. There's no pretty, easy to use management tools, nothing unifying them together, nothing built first on Linux and no one in the open source community can contribute or test any of this stuff, or even know about it. Ergo, Novell is out of the loop in the wider open source world.

-Ported DNS/DHCP directory integrated services to linux.

We already have them ;-).

None of this stuff is unified, and in particular, none of this stuff is unified with what is happening in the Linux and open source world since, Novell doesn't get open source. No one using your average Linux distribution is aware of any of this stuff, let alone using it.

Besides, don't just listen to me. Look at Novell's revenue and bottom line. It isn't working.

Edited 2007-10-26 13:39

Reply Parent Score: 4

IanSVT Member since:
2005-07-06

Would people like to have choice and see Exchange run on Linux? Yes. Is it going to happen? No. Microsoft doesn't compromise on this stuff.


The biggest reason for this in my opinion is because Microsoft doesn't have to. They basically set their own rules within reason.

Groupwise is dead Novell. Do yourself a favour and start using Kolab or OpenGroupware or something like that so people actually know about what it is that you use.


Dead? Tell that to the active developers and all the customers who actually use groupwise. Kolab, OpenXchange, OpenGroupware, none of these come close to GroupWise's market imprint. That would be a very poor decision by Novell to scrap GroupWise.

Quite frankly, I have not been impressed with Zen. As far as I can tell, much of what Novell have been doing is writing stuff in .Net and then assuming it can just be ported to Linux using Mono. I don't call that making Linux a first-class citizen.


What does mono have to do with Zen 10?

Wow. There's no pretty, easy to use management tools, nothing unifying them together, nothing built first on Linux and no one in the open source community can contribute or test any of this stuff, or even know about it. Ergo, Novell is out of the loop in the wider open source world.


As far as eDirectory enabled services, iManager is that tool. You can criticize the tool, but you can't say it doesn't exist.

We already have them ;-).


Not integrated into the directory services, however.

None of this stuff is unified, and in particular, none of this stuff is unified with what is happening in the Linux and open source world since, Novell doesn't get open source. No one using your average Linux distribution is aware of any of this stuff, let alone using it.


It's more unified than you realize. It certainly needs work(specifically the GroupWise tools), but you don't need to do anything at the command line if you don't want to.

You're spot on, no one using your average linux distro is aware of any of this stuff. However, it's not because it isn't open source, it's because your average linux joe doesn't need a groupware package, directory services, directory service enabled printing/dhcp/dns, heavy duty workstation and policy management services.

Trust me brother, Novell can be ripped for plenty, particularly their lackluster sales division and their non existent marketing division. In my opinion, most of their woes are due to these parts of the business. You can even rip some of the technology. However, back to your comment, you said they have done nothing in the four years. Regardless of what you think of their development of products and services and what impact they have, it is an irrefutable fact that they have continued to develop and progress their technology over the past four years.

Reply Parent Score: 4

sorpigal Member since:
2005-11-02

Quite frankly, I have not been impressed with Zenworks.

Quite frankly, you haven't really used it. I can't speak about Zenworks-for-Linux, which I hear exists, but Zenworks on for netware 5.x/6.x managing Windows clients is simply unbeatable, indispensable and zenworks for servers is no slouch either.

And about groupwise... maybe it's not perfect, but if your network is built around eDirectory it is the best thing going.

Also, do not underestimate directory integrated services.

Reply Parent Score: 3

SEJeff Member since:
2005-11-05

How about funding REALLY SMART PEOPLE like Federico:
http://www.gnome.org/~federico/

Or giving Miguel a platform to stand on and bring C# to Linux? Say what you want about mono being evil, but the part that is ECMA compliant would not be where it is without a corporate sponsor like Novell.

Hmmmmmm maybe open sourcing the code to netmail (and admittingly killing the project) as Hula which has forked to bongo (http://www.bongo-project.org)

What about Tango, http://www.betterdesktop.org, Michael Meeks who runs a good chunk of the non-Sun controlled friendly OpenOffice fork http://go-oo.org ?

Maybe it doesn't matter that their suse engineers have done a lot of work on projects like Samba or the Linux kernel helping the world? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Alkml.org+%28~*~...

segedunum, a lot of your comments are very controversial and quite good actually. This was not one of them. I could go on for hours about good OR bad things that Novell has done. Don't blindly hate someone because they are trying to make their customers money although I agree they are doing it in a very braindumb way.

Reply Parent Score: 2