Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 19th Nov 2007 21:22 UTC, submitted by irbis
Window Managers "Linux has proven amazingly flexible: after nearly 10 years of use, I'm still impressed by how the Linux operating system does exactly what I want on any type of hardware. Desktop customization is no exception; from the ultra-modern KDE and GNOME window managers to with the likes of Fluxbox and AfterStep, there's a Linux desktop to suit everyone."
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RE[2]: wm for a server?
by autumnlover on Tue 20th Nov 2007 06:10 UTC in reply to "RE: wm for a server?"
autumnlover
Member since:
2007-04-12

Freedom from the "upgrade treadmill".


Can I understand it right ? I can install and use OpenOffice 2.x on Red Hat 7.0 installation, as I can on Windows 98 ?

Protect you from viruses & malware.


It's a myth.

Give you a one-stop, easily searchable, guaranteed no malware GUI application installer.


I am sure you never tried Ubuntu's Synaptics with offline DVDs as repositories ;-)

Cross-platform compatibility & interoperability.


But not between applications - compare win's clipboard and GNOME equivalent of it.

Hardware recognised immediately, no need to search for the right "driver CD".


So unlucky me. Using Ubuntu for one and half year, and still cannot make Realtek RT 2500 WiFi PCI Cards on two desktop to run on Ubuntu. Latest driver included in 7.10 repos failed to detect my card, saying "card not installed". IT IS installed, damn it! ;-)

A working 64-bit desktop with all drivers.


Drivers - maybe. But not all applications.

An update service that will not "push" unwanted software on you.


Unless you're unlucky one, equipped with Radeon 8250 and updated to brand new X-server version 7.3 ...

A browser compliant with W3C standards, including SVG, and which can pass the acid2 test.


There are no Opera for Windows ?

Lack of ongoing registration & activation requirements.


Registration IS required on Windows ? No!

Attachments are not simply dumped by mail clients.


I don't see how it is related to OS ?

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: wm for a server?
by lemur2 on Tue 20th Nov 2007 07:53 in reply to "RE[2]: wm for a server?"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Can I understand it right ? I can install and use OpenOffice 2.x on Red Hat 7.0 installation, as I can on Windows 98 ?


Not quite right. You can install OpenOffice 2.3 right now on Fedora 8. The cost of upgrade from earlier versions? $0. Hence, you are not on a treadmill. You can in fact still be running RedHat 7.0 if that is what you want to do ... there is no imperative need to update. And if you want to update, you can do it at no cost and no disruption.

It's a myth.


How so? Do you perhaps mean that it is a myth that there are Linux viruses in the wild?

All of the malware & virsues out there are actually for for Windows, not for Linux or Mac.

I am sure you never tried Ubuntu's Synaptics with offline DVDs as repositories


Shouldn't be a problem. Or you could put your repositories on a local lan server, and serve all your desktops indirectly from there, so that they all didn't have to download all updates from the wider internet.

Drivers - maybe. But not all applications.


My current system is 64-bit Kubuntu. It has had every application I have wanted so far, including flash player for the browser, and java, and 64-bit multimedia codecs. Exactly what "missing applications" did you have in mind?

Unless you're unlucky one, equipped with Radeon 8250 and updated to brand new X-server version 7.3 ...


One swallow does not make a summer. Speak to these guys about hardware that doesn't have drivers for Vista:
http://vistaincompatible.com/forums/YaBB.pl?board=hardware

The state of ATI drivers is fluid right now, but rapidly improving.
There are no Opera for Windows ?


Not on the Windows install CD, there isn't. Not from Microsoft, even after install. Oh, and you cannot get rid of the insecure, non-standard browser that IS installed, either.

Registration IS required on Windows ? No!


Registration is required on Windows YES! And often re-registration also, if you change a hard drive or motherboard or something. Please remember the original question, which was: "What can Linux on the desktop do for me, that a properly-configured XP install won't?". Only on Windows would you be asked to re-register after a hardware change, and only on Windows is there a chance that you will have to pay again for a new license.

I don't see how it is related to OS ?


Outlook express comes with a Windows install.

Edited 2007-11-20 08:11

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[4]: wm for a server?
by gavin.mccord on Tue 20th Nov 2007 14:09 in reply to "RE[3]: wm for a server?"
gavin.mccord Member since:
2005-09-07

Registration IS required on Windows ? No!


Registration is required on Windows YES! And often re-registration also, if you change a hard drive or motherboard or something.


Activation is a requirement. At least registration is optional

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: wm for a server?
by autumnlover on Tue 20th Nov 2007 14:27 in reply to "RE[3]: wm for a server?"
autumnlover Member since:
2007-04-12

How so? Do you perhaps mean that it is a myth that there are Linux viruses in the wild? All of the malware & virsues out there are actually for for Windows, not for Linux or Mac.


No. There ARE viruses and online threats on Linux (and even more of them for Mac, which is UNIX-based system after all). You wrote that using Linux alone protects me from viruses, which I consider a myth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_computer_viruses_and_wor...

If Linux itself is a virus- and threat-free environment, then why there are so many security patches and updates for any supported distribution ?

Exactly what "missing applications" did you have in mind?


Last time I tried - to use Flash I have to install 32bit browser in 64bit environment:

http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=6b3af6c9&...

Other programs I have in mind: Adobe Acrobat, Avast Antivirus, ClamAV

Not on the Windows install CD, there isn't. Not from Microsoft, even after install. Oh, and you cannot get rid of the insecure, non-standard browser that IS installed, either.


Even when I create complete set of Ubuntu repos (4 DVDs and 1 CD) there still will be no Opera'a .deb on those. So situation is exactly the same as in Windows.

And for "usecure, non-standard browser" - there is no obligation to use it for browsing, even to leave it unblocked on firewall.

Registration is required on Windows YES!


You confused registration and activation. I can be anonymous user of properly licensed Windows, just like any non-commercial Linux distribution.

Outlook express comes with a Windows install.


Same as IE - there is no obligation to use it, and to leave it unblocked on firewall.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: wm for a server?
by wirespot on Wed 21st Nov 2007 01:32 in reply to "RE[2]: wm for a server?"
wirespot Member since:
2006-06-21

Can I understand it right ? I can install and use OpenOffice 2.x on Red Hat 7.0 installation, as I can on Windows 98 ?


Yes. You can also install it on Red Hat 5.2 or older, if you compile it from source. Can you do install it on Windows 3.1?

> Protect you from viruses & malware.
It's a myth.


Tell that to my desktop Linux box, sitting on the Internet without a firewall, and never getting ANY virus or malware in all the years I've been using it.

So unlucky me. Using Ubuntu for one and half year, and still cannot make Realtek RT 2500 WiFi PCI Cards on two desktop to run on Ubuntu. Latest driver included in 7.10 repos failed to detect my card, saying "card not installed". IT IS installed, damn it! ;-)


Tell it to Realtek. Reverse engineering will only take you so far. It's amazing what drivers you find in the Linux kernel, but the devs are not miracle workers. If Realtek doesn't want you to use their cards on Linux, that's between them and you, don't blame Linux for this.

> A working 64-bit desktop with all drivers.
Drivers - maybe. But not all applications.


Again, tell it to Adobe and the rest of the vendors who push binary blobs that only work on 32bit.

Unless you're unlucky one, equipped with Radeon 8250 and updated to brand new X-server version 7.3 ...


ATI's the one you want here.

Say, you should start a Christmas card list or something. I can see that the list of vendors you should have a talk with is growing.

> A browser compliant with W3C standards,
> including SVG, and which can pass the acid2 test.

There are no Opera for Windows ?


He was talking about Konqueror.

Registration IS required on Windows ? No!


It's not? Then why do I have to enter my unique serial number if I want Windows to be fully functional and access to updates? Can't that serial be traced back to me? And why do I have to give my personal data to the Microsoft reps when I change my motherboard or CPU and Microsoft invalidates my copy?

Edited 2007-11-21 01:37

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: wm for a server?
by autumnlover on Wed 21st Nov 2007 04:15 in reply to "RE[3]: wm for a server?"
autumnlover Member since:
2007-04-12

It's not? Then why do I have to enter my unique serial number if I want Windows to be fully functional and access to updates?


Its not "your serial number". Its a Windows serial number and I do not see how you can be identified by that number alone. When you buy a copy (no matter OEM or retail) serial number is hidden inside box. It is not present on receipt and in store's accounting database.

And if you're paranoid enough ;-) you can activate by phone, by never used before cellphone and by using not registered pre-paid SIM card. Big Brother from Redmond will have a very hard time to track you then ;-)

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: wm for a server?
by Soulbender on Wed 21st Nov 2007 02:12 in reply to "RE[2]: wm for a server?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

compare win's clipboard and GNOME equivalent of it.


Hogwash. The clipboard works perfectly between different apps in X, be it Xlib, GTK or QT apps.

and still cannot make Realtek RT 2500 WiFi PCI


Ralink RT2500 based PCI cards work in Linux and has done so for quite some time. Maybe the problem isn't with Linux but with Realtek or the user.

But not all applications.


As long as the application works why dos it matter? It's not like all Windows apps are avilable in 64bit versions.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: wm for a server?
by draethus on Wed 21st Nov 2007 05:37 in reply to "RE[3]: wm for a server?"
draethus Member since:
2006-08-02

Hogwash. The clipboard works perfectly between different apps in X, be it Xlib, GTK or QT apps.

Hogwash. Just recently (this year IIRC) the X developers were discussing why the clipboard is so broken and what they can do to improve compatibility between applications.

Reply Parent Score: 1