Linked by Eugenia Loli on Fri 7th Dec 2007 06:25 UTC, submitted by poundsmack
Qt Jambi ships as a single Java library, or JAR (Java Archive) file, plus a handful of tools, including an interface layout and design tool, and an Eclipse plug-in. Trolltech uses its vaunted Qt C++ library as the GUI engine and puts Java wrappers around it. This approach uses the JNI (Java Native Interface) to call the necessary functions from Java. More here.
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RE[5]: Unconvinced
by mikeurbandz on Fri 7th Dec 2007 18:44 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Unconvinced"
mikeurbandz
Member since:
2007-10-29

> A common myth, but there really isn't much evidence
> for that.

There is plenty of evidence. You only mentioned Linux vendors. I wasn't talking about Linux vendors. I was talking about companies like Sun, IBM, and HP. All of these companies have adopted GNOME and not KDE. And all of them have committed not only financial resources, but developer resources as well to enhancing and improving and contributing to GNOME. None of them care about KDE though. And again, licensing in the reason. The LGPL is much more commercially friendly than the GPL when it comes to development libraries.

> And running KDE doesn't mean you're locked into QT
> at all. You can write apps with any toolkit/language
> just fine.

Sure. But they don't look or feel right, and don't integrate fully with the DE. And part of creating a commercial GUI application involves polishing it very well when it comes to GUI and desktop integration.

Edited 2007-12-07 18:51

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Unconvinced
by leos on Fri 7th Dec 2007 19:20 in reply to "RE[5]: Unconvinced"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

You only mentioned Linux vendors.


Yes, because the big unixes are not generally used as desktops. The three you mentioned actually still use CDE quite heavily. Basically there is not much need for a desktop, so the choice is not as important. HP also regularly sponsors hardware and conferences for KDE.

Sure. But they don't look or feel right, and don't integrate fully with the DE. And part of creating a commercial GUI application involves polishing it very well when it comes to GUI and desktop integration.


Not really. Look at something like Adobe Acrobat Reader on Linux (v8). They ship all the GTK libs themselves, and most of their UI is made of custom widgets. A lot of the high profile apps on Windows have custom UIs to differentiate themselves. Proprietary apps really don't care much about integration. The file open/save dialog is about the only thing that needs to be consistent, and it is easy to write an app that uses the appropriate dialogs depending on whether it is running on KDE or Gnome. Look at Openoffice for example. They integrate equally well into KDE and Gnome, and they're not based on GTK or Qt.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[7]: Unconvinced
by mikeurbandz on Fri 7th Dec 2007 19:28 in reply to "RE[6]: Unconvinced"
mikeurbandz Member since:
2007-10-29

> The three you mentioned actually still use CDE
> quite heavily.

All of them have officially replaced CDE with GNOME though. And there are quite a few people running Solaris on workstations.

> Proprietary apps really don't care much about
> integration.

I don't agree with that. It might be true on *nix, mostly cause *nix has never really had a solid history of applications following any kind of HIG. But Windows and Mac have. In most cases, Windows users care about native look and feel. And when it comes to Mac users, they are practically militant about their applications looking and feeling exactly like Apple's HIG says they should.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Unconvinced
by segedunum on Fri 7th Dec 2007 20:39 in reply to "RE[5]: Unconvinced"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

There is plenty of evidence. You only mentioned Linux vendors. I wasn't talking about Linux vendors. I was talking about companies like Sun, IBM, and HP. All of these companies have adopted GNOME and not KDE.

Have they? Quite frankly, I haven't noticed, and neither have many other people. HP and IBM have done nothing with Gnome. Zip, zilch, zero. They're not improving it as a developer's platform, or the desktop in general at all. There's no vision and no political will there at all.

As far as Sun is concerned, they sell something call the 'Java Desktop System' that uses Gnome. Can I develop a Gnome application in Java where I can create a Gnome control panel applet? No. Can I create a Gnome system tray applet using Java? No. Do Swing applications adopt the right look and feel of the Gnome environment? No. Is Netbeans being geared towards Gnome development so that developers can create first-class Gnome applications in Java that fit into the 'Java Desktop System'? No.

As for Red Hat and Novell, most of Novell's Gnome developers have either left, or they're concentrating on maintenance of their own desktop environment and Mono. Red Hat are concentrating on maintaining GTK as-is, and pie-in-the-sky project as as the online desktop.

At one time, I thought Sun, Red Hat and some people from Novell would have got together to map out a future architecture for Gnome, particularly from a development point of view. Due to inertia, people concentrating on their own projects and politics, that just hasn't happened and it probably never will. A lot of the past contributors just seem to have disappeared from view.

Gnome has simply got bogged down between competing interests, politics and the extreme inertia of libraries such as GTK that is preventing it from moving forwards. The only interesting stuff being done at the moment within free desktops are being done by individual contributors and the KDE people.

And again, licensing in the reason. The LGPL is much more commercially friendly than the GPL when it comes to development libraries.

It's funny that this keeps getting brought up, because no company has ever made any statement to that effect.

Sure. But they don't look or feel right, and don't integrate fully with the DE. And part of creating a commercial GUI application involves polishing it very well when it comes to GUI and desktop integration.

That's just an exceptionally poor excuse that seems to get regurgitated every time. You can use different toolkits on Windows and Mac, right? People have no problem integrating GTK with Windows and the Mac, right? What's stopping GTK, or Java, integration with KDE?

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[7]: Unconvinced
by mikeurbandz on Fri 7th Dec 2007 20:47 in reply to "RE[6]: Unconvinced"
mikeurbandz Member since:
2007-10-29

> Can I develop a Gnome application in Java where I
> can create a Gnome control panel applet? No.

Um.. Yes, actually, you can.

> Can I create a Gnome system tray applet using Java?
> No.

Um... Wrong again. Yes you can.

> Do Swing applications adopt the right look and feel
> of the Gnome environment? No.

You are batting a thousand here. Cause you are wrong again.

Both of your first things can be accomplished with something called JDIC, Java Desktop Integration Components, which are a part of SwingX, and are scheduled to be included in the actual Java distribution soon.

As for the third one, Java 6_01 and later pick up the GNOME loon and feel just fine. So well, that you almost certainly wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

You really should get your facts straight about Java before you post this kind of stuff. It's clear you haven't used Java to do any desktop development in at least a couple of years.

Of course, you can also use the Java GNOME bindings. So not only can you do everything you claimed can't be done in Java. But there is more than one way you can do it in Java.

Edited 2007-12-07 20:52

Reply Parent Score: 2