Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 30th Jun 2008 18:48 UTC, submitted by Dan Warne
Through all the Windows and Microsoft bashing on the intertubes, it's almost easy to forget that Windows does, in fact, have quite a few positive aspects as well. One of those aspects is the modularity of its installation system, which allows you to create your custom installation image of Windows - with relative ease. Sadly, Microsoft decided to keep this ability away from normal users, making it a sort of OEM tool only. Lucky for us, there's a tool called vLite/nLite which allows us to slipstream fixes, applications, and drivers into the installation image as we please. This functionality of course also made its way to the 'underground' community, who used it to produce something called TinyXP. APCMag decided to take a look at it.
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RE[3]: Comment by TusharG
by Doc Pain on Mon 30th Jun 2008 23:48
in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by TusharG"
Member since:2006-10-08
HP, Toshiba and Lenovo are some of the companies I know who have moved over to this 'restoration cd' - their excuse is that it restores the whole machine, with all the drivers required.
What about his thing called "restore partition" that I had heared of in relation to "Windows" - does this perform the same purpose? I mean, a partition on the harddisk that is sold anyway is much cheaper than providing a separate DVD for system repair. (I'm not a "Windows" guy", so I may ask politely.)
The old system was a hit and miss of installing the operating system, then having to load the individual driver cds for each of the bits of hardware.
But this problem occurs as soon as you have any additional hardware in or arund your system that requires additional drivers. I don't know how about this in other countries, but in Germany, installation media gets thrown into the garbage can as soon as the hardware is unpacked; "Well, I dont know what I could need this for, so..." :-)
Of course, it's basically a good idea to have the drivers availabe that turn the machine inter a usable thing right after install; the "hunt for drivers" across the Web is something that really bothers users (at least, I've been told so), but most users would definitely like to have a system that automatically loads the drivers for the hardware it has just recognized, or downloads them automatically if they are not available from the booting media.
To be cynical at the same time, I have a feeling they also did it so that you can't avoid installing crapware - I mean, why else would they have a restoration programme without the ability of selecting what stuff one would like loaded onto the machine?
This contradicts to the assumption that users will only want to use what came preinstalled. And crapware is usually installed automatically without involving the busy user. :-)
RE[4]: Comment by TusharG
by kaiwai on Tue 1st Jul 2008 01:04
in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by TusharG"
Member since:2005-07-06
What about his thing called "restore partition" that I had heared of in relation to "Windows" - does this perform the same purpose? I mean, a partition on the harddisk that is sold anyway is much cheaper than providing a separate DVD for system repair. (I'm not a "Windows" guy", so I may ask politely.)
There are two phases. The restoration partition is not accessible through Windows (although some hacking does make it available). When you create your restoration DVDs on Toshiba, Lenovo and HP, you create a restoration DVD. Once the restoration DVD is created (from the stuff in the hidden restoration partition), you are then given the option to then delete that partition so that you can reclaim the space.
What is basically on the DVD is a couple of giant images that are plonked onto the hard disk, and when the operating system first loaded, there are a series of scripts to run and install the various drivers as found in a directory in the C: drive. For the lenovo had, it takes quite a while.
As see with Windows XP SP3, HP tried to cut down this autodetection and installation by hard coding in things to the registry - with disastrous results when people applied Windows XP SP3.
So it is actually up to you to create the restoration DVD as soon as the laptop loads up the first time. Its a way, I guess, for them to save $2 per unit, resulting in, I assume, a few million saved each year.
But this problem occurs as soon as you have any additional hardware in or arund your system that requires additional drivers. I don't know how about this in other countries, but in Germany, installation media gets thrown into the garbage can as soon as the hardware is unpacked; "Well, I dont know what I could need this for, so..." :-)
When I bought this Dell 8400 - if you did an operating system restoration using the bundled copy of Windows XP, you would also have to run through the 8 different cds that came with the system. One for the modem, another for the chipset, another for the audio card, one for the screen etc. etc. Its alot of work, and for the average user - they expect to plonk in one cd, and come back 30 minutes and later and find that the whole system has been restored - drivers and all in one go.
Of course, it's basically a good idea to have the drivers availabe that turn the machine inter a usable thing right after install; the "hunt for drivers" across the Web is something that really bothers users (at least, I've been told so), but most users would definitely like to have a system that automatically loads the drivers for the hardware it has just recognized, or downloads them automatically if they are not available from the booting media.
Which is where the restoration dvd's come in. For me, I have nothing against the idea of the restoration dvd, what I do object to is the inability to actually choose what not to install. The ability to say, "just restore the operating system - and nothing else".
This contradicts to the assumption that users will only want to use what came preinstalled. And crapware is usually installed automatically without involving the busy user. :-)
Well, the thing is that they've not turned the desktop into an advertising platform for every two bit company who makes utterly crap software but can find no otherway to market other than to participate in shovelware.
I remember years and years ago, OEM's used to have awesome software bundles; full version card making software, encyclopedia's, budgeting and cheque book software. All of it full version, and it used to be part of their marketing - get a computer, get all this software - and you'll be ready to use the computer.
The better the software, the bigger the bundle - the better your sales were. I remember when I bought my first PC, there were 4 software bundles you could choose from - a gaming pack, office pack, family pack, and a few others.
Now, basically, the software loaded onto machines are no longer 'value added' but 'burden added' shovelware where the OEM vendor has rushed to the bottom in price, and now turning your computer into an advertisement platform just to make a decent margin on the laptop.
Hence the reason when I bought my lenovo, did a low level format, and installed Solaris on it - I've never looked back. I suggest, that unless you *really* *really* need to run Windows, look for an alternative; cheap laptop + Ubuntu, and get an Xbox, Playstation or Wii for games. Thats what I've done, and believe, I'm a whole lot happier.
RE[4]: Comment by TusharG
by burnttoy on Tue 1st Jul 2008 06:59
in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by TusharG"
Member since:2006-07-28
What about his thing called "restore partition" that I had heared of in relation to "Windows" - does this perform the same purpose?
Had that on a Vaio laptop. Works great until your HD dies then what do you do?! If something is going to die in a computer it'll probably be the HD. *shakes fist at Sony*. For the cost of a couple of cents of DVD this problem would "go away"... well, except the crushing feeling you get when your computer say something like "OS not found" on a black screen in white system font...
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Member since:
2005-07-06
I use my original serial number that came with Laptop and I dont have the HP's bolted installation but simple clean xp installed on my laptop.
A couple of questions for you:
1. What is nList?
2. Why did you replace the i386 folder?
I tried something similar to what you did with my dad's new PC. The vendor put the reinstall files on the hard drive instead of giving him a restore/install CD. I tried installing a pirated copy of XP (he's got OEM Pro so used an OEM Pro disc) and using his legit key, but it didn't work. I'm not sure why.[/quote]
That is always the case. In Microsoft's pursuit of 'clamping down on piracy' - they've made owning a computer a giant inconvenience. This is what happens when you put anti-piracy measures above the convenience for end users.
HP, Toshiba and Lenovo are some of the companies I know who have moved over to this 'restoration cd' - their excuse is that it restores the whole machine, with all the drivers required. The old system was a hit and miss of installing the operating system, then having to load the individual driver cds for each of the bits of hardware.
To be cynical at the same time, I have a feeling they also did it so that you can't avoid installing crapware - I mean, why else would they have a restoration programme without the ability of selecting what stuff one would like loaded onto the machine?
Ring up Microsoft or the HP themselves. Don't blame the local shop guy, he's only person relaying the products - he can't do anything about it himself apart from ring up HP on your behalf.