Linked by Amjith Ramanujam on Thu 21st Aug 2008 23:44 UTC
Linux "Where is Linux the most popular, and where are the different Linux distributions the most popular?". Pingdom has taken a stab at answering this question using the Google Insights for Search. Read on for our observations on the results.
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Remember folks
by kaiwai on Sat 23rd Aug 2008 02:47 UTC
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

Remember folks, a computer is only a tool to get a job accomplished; all this debate over 'operating systems' is meaningless when people are fixated on the technology rather than the end result.

People haven't suddenly fallen in love with MacOS X - they've fallen in love with the product called Mac. The operating system and hardware are viewed as one in the same - a symbiotic relationship. How many end users actually purchase their computer based on the operating system it runs? the question I see end users ask isn't "does it run Windows" or "does it run MacOS X" - its always, "does it run [name of software]".

As for the third world; the third world will eventually drop the 'poor mans' operating system once they have more money. Just like a customer who starts buying name brand food as soon as they get a pay rise - the same can be said once the third world moves to first world, and want all the trappings of the first world lifestyle.

How is that any different to a person who lives in a cardboard box, has enough money to move out - are they really going to continue to live in a cardboard box when they can buy a better place? the cardboard box was functional - but one expectations rise once one acquires more money.

This fixation on the 'low end market' is eventually going to dry up as that 'low end market' starts merging into the market where people want more than just the 'bare minimum, good enough' solution.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Remember folks
by netpython on Sat 23rd Aug 2008 07:15 in reply to "Remember folks"
netpython Member since:
2005-07-06

So one day there will suddenly be no third world anymore?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Remember folks
by kaiwai on Sat 23rd Aug 2008 11:34 in reply to "RE: Remember folks"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

So one day there will suddenly be no third world anymore?


Assuming that these countries keep reforming, instilling property rights, crack down on corruption, ensure that the justice system is untained by political interference and corruption - yes it is possible. But given the number of clueless westerners hell bent on resurrecting socialism (but those individuals not having the slightest clue about economics to begin with) - I wouldn't be surprised if we see yet another experimentation with socialism in the third world.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Remember folks
by agrouf on Sat 23rd Aug 2008 07:46 in reply to "Remember folks"
agrouf Member since:
2006-11-17

Remember the rich gets richer and the poor get poorer. Once upon a time there was no third world (not so long ago). The third world is going to be bigger and bigger.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Remember folks
by kaiwai on Sat 23rd Aug 2008 11:36 in reply to "RE: Remember folks"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Remember the rich gets richer and the poor get poorer. Once upon a time there was no third world (not so long ago). The third world is going to be bigger and bigger.


There has always been a third world, developing world etc. The only time when there wasn't a 'third world' was when the west was raping and pillaging natural resources in what was known as their 'empire'. Third world is all relative. Hell, going by the GDP per capita comparison between NZ and American, NZ comes off looking like some third rate backwater.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Remember folks
by tupp on Sat 23rd Aug 2008 09:34 in reply to "Remember folks"
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

Remember folks, a computer is only a tool to get a job accomplished...

For some, their computer is a lifestyle statement.


People haven't suddenly fallen in love with MacOS X - they've fallen in love with the product called Mac.

This discussion is supposed to concern the geography of Linux popularity, not Mac OSX.


The operating system and hardware are viewed as one in the same - a symbiotic relationship.

Well, a lot of naive Apple fans have such a view. Such a notion is obviously inaccurate.


How many end users actually purchase their computer based on the operating system it runs?

Probably most people. People know the difference between OSs.


the question I see end users ask isn't "does it run Windows" or "does it run MacOS X" - its always, "does it run [name of software]".

I have rarely heard anyone asking either of these very basic questions, because the answer is usually obvious if one has already used the desired software and/or OS.


As for the third world; the third world will eventually drop the 'poor mans' operating system once they have more money.

Is that a reference to Linux as a cheaper, inferior OS? Linux is certainly cheaper than proprietary OSs such as OSX and Windows, but it is definitely not inferior to them.

A more apt reference would portray Linux as the "smart man's" OS.


Just like a customer who starts buying name brand food as soon as they get a pay rise - the same can be said once the third world moves to first world, and want all the trappings of the first world lifestyle.

So, the computer is actually more than just "a tool to get a job accomplished?"

People using Linux are generally not prone to the myth that "switching" to OSX or Windows will improve their lifestyle (nor the perception of their lifestyle).

Linux offers a lot that proprietary OSs don't, and most who try to switch will miss those Linux advantages. Even Microsoft knows this, hence, their original fear of the Linux OLPC with their subsequent takeover of the OLPC's OS.


How is that any different to a person who lives in a cardboard box, has enough money to move out - are they really going to continue to live in a cardboard box when they can buy a better place?

Perhaps because they realize that OSX and Windows are not a "better place" than Linux. Inaccurate analogy.


This fixation on the 'low end market' is eventually going to dry up as that 'low end market' starts merging into the market where people want more than just the 'bare minimum, good enough' solution.

Then someone should tell Microsoft not to bother trying to indoctrinate the "low end markets."

Linux is a robust, world-class OS, and all OSs have plenty of problems. There is just no substance to the portrayal of Linux as a "bare minimum, good enough solution," compared to OSX or Windows.

Edited 2008-08-23 09:43 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Remember folks
by kaiwai on Sat 23rd Aug 2008 11:46 in reply to "RE: Remember folks"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Remember folks, a computer is only a tool to get a job accomplished...

For some, their computer is a lifestyle statement.


For those in the third world - it isn't. It is a means to an end; a tool to make themselves either more efficient at work or a way of educating themselves (and thus improve their lot in life).


People haven't suddenly fallen in love with MacOS X - they've fallen in love with the product called Mac.

This discussion is supposed to concern the geography of Linux popularity, not Mac OSX.


Maybe you can learn what a damn example is before posting off snarky posts - or are you always this rude?

The operating system and hardware are viewed as one in the same - a symbiotic relationship.

Well, a lot of naive Apple fans have such a view. Such a notion is obviously inaccurate.


The end user makes no differentiation between the hardware and software, They see a big magical machine consuming electricity that does stuff for them. Join the real world one day and you'll see what the sheeple do.

How many end users actually purchase their computer based on the operating system it runs?

Probably most people. People know the difference between OSs.


Which then destroys the typical assumption that an end user has no choice in the operating system market; if they did know what an operating system is, and knew how to install it - then people wouldn't care about OEM installs of Linux, they would do it themselves.

the question I see end users ask isn't "does it run Windows" or "does it run MacOS X" - its always, "does it run [name of software]".

I have rarely heard anyone asking either of these very basic questions, because the answer is usually obvious if one has already used the desired software and/or OS.


If the hardware is running a new version of the operating system/hardware combination, they want to make sure that their software can work - refer back to the 'magical box' statement I made previously.

As for the third world; the third world will eventually drop the 'poor mans' operating system once they have more money.

Is that a reference to Linux as a cheaper, inferior OS? Linux is certainly cheaper than proprietary OSs such as OSX and Windows, but it is definitely not inferior to them.


No, I never said that. I said that banking your whole future on being the 'cheap mans operating system' whilst ignoring the high end of town is foolish at best.

A more apt reference would portray Linux as the "smart man's" OS.


Of course Mr Alpha Male, chest better - real men don't eat quiche

Just like a customer who starts buying name brand food as soon as they get a pay rise - the same can be said once the third world moves to first world, and want all the trappings of the first world lifestyle.

So, the computer is actually more than just "a tool to get a job accomplished?"


They'll move up market to what they deem as being the 'thing' which middle class have. A computer gets work done, but when you have more time, more money - your priorities change.

People using Linux are generally not prone to the myth that "switching" to OSX or Windows will improve their lifestyle (nor the perception of their lifestyle).


More alpha male chest beating I see.

Linux offers a lot that proprietary OSs don't, and most who try to switch will miss those Linux advantages. Even Microsoft knows this, hence, their original fear of the Linux OLPC with their subsequent takeover of the OLPC's OS.


And what advantages are these?

How is that any different to a person who lives in a cardboard box, has enough money to move out - are they really going to continue to live in a cardboard box when they can buy a better place?

Perhaps because they realize that OSX and Windows are not a "better place" than Linux. Inaccurate analogy.


So they should stay in a cardboard box in otherwords, "don't raise your expctations, just keep them really low so that I have my ego regular massaged by the number of Linux users".

This fixation on the 'low end market' is eventually going to dry up as that 'low end market' starts merging into the market where people want more than just the 'bare minimum, good enough' solution.

Then someone should tell Microsoft not to bother trying to indoctrinate the "low end markets."

Linux is a robust, world-class OS, and all OSs have plenty of problems. There is just no substance to the portrayal of Linux as a "bare minimum, good enough solution," compared to OSX or Windows.


I've always said they shouldn't waste their time on the low end of town, just as I've said that the 'race to the bottom' in the PC industry is hurting more than it is helping the over all IT industry.

Edited 2008-08-23 11:47 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Remember folks
by tupp on Sat 23rd Aug 2008 09:40 in reply to "Remember folks"
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

Oops. Sorry. Can't delete this.

Edited 2008-08-23 09:44 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Remember folks
by Gone fishing on Sat 23rd Aug 2008 10:28 in reply to "Remember folks"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

This fixation on the 'low end market' is eventually going to dry up as that 'low end market' starts merging into the market where people want more than just the 'bare minimum, good enough' solution.


I partially agree but is Linux a low end solution? I think not. Microsoft, however, does have a fixation with low end solutions for the third world. Windows starter edition for e.g. a stripped gutted version of a low end OS (XP home) and I would argue that any version of XP is now low end.

How about Vista Home Basic - hardly a high end OS. However, Ubuntu, Open Suse, Debian, etc, do qualify as serious OSes with all the features any power user could want.

Also I don't think the cost problem will go away Vista Ultimate for example is months of wages for many in the third world and beyond the pockets of for example students.

Possibly the question is which will be the solution of choice a Linux OS or a pirated MS OS.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Remember folks
by kaiwai on Sat 23rd Aug 2008 11:30 in reply to "RE: Remember folks"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

I partially agree but is Linux a low end solution? I think not. Microsoft, however, does have a fixation with low end solutions for the third world. Windows starter edition for e.g. a stripped gutted version of a low end OS (XP home) and I would argue that any version of XP is now low end.


Microsoft has this fixation that if they get the country when they're 'young' and 'under developed' that later on they'll continue to want Microsoft software - in other words, the 'indoctrination effect'. There is a double edge to that - it is assuming that the end user will continue to purchase the product after their standard of living has improved.

How about Vista Home Basic - hardly a high end OS. However, Ubuntu, Open Suse, Debian, etc, do qualify as serious OSes with all the features any power user could want.


True, but as I said - the saviour to Linux shouldn't be focused on the 'low end of town' at the expense of the ones who will pay the bills. Boasting that you have 300million users - and not a single one has the money to purchase your the products you make as a programmer, it doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.

This is the reason why I keep stating that this dream of the 'third world' suddenly becoming a new market for software is a fiction at best; these folk can barely scrape together a few hundred for a computer; do they really have the money to then purchase localised and supported versions of these applications.

Yes, there are free versions - but the issue is this; this fiction that an expanded market can yield improved profits for software companies is a fiction at best.

Also I don't think the cost problem will go away Vista Ultimate for example is months of wages for many in the third world and beyond the pockets of for example students.


Correct - but then again, students in NZ can get low cost loans form the bank, $2000 interest free over draft, $1000 government loan for course related costs etc. etc. So students in the first world can afford to pay the 'premium' - the question is whether the premium can be justified. Windows Vista Ultimate can't be justified when one looks at MacOS X or even a commercial Linux distribution like SLED 10.

Possibly the question is which will be the solution of choice a Linux OS or a pirated MS OS.


Depends on the end user. People will always want Windows because that is what their favourite application run on. That is why this drive for 'cracking down on piracy' is a double edged sword in the end; before students could easily pirate copies of Microsoft software, now students are either going for Mac's with a cheap office suit (look at iWorks '08 for example) or they go with Linux.

Edited 2008-08-23 11:32 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Remember folks
by tweakedenigma on Sat 23rd Aug 2008 14:00 in reply to "Remember folks"
tweakedenigma Member since:
2006-12-27

I think you might be looking at it from the wrong way. I think it is more likely that these countries will build up Linux as they develop and bring it a long with them. I don't think they will just dump a home grown resource just to by the same type of product from someone else.

Reply Parent Score: 4