Linked by David Adams on Wed 24th Sep 2008 22:44 UTC, submitted by snydeq
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y Linux Foundation Executive Director Jim Zemlin has said it is time for Solaris to simply move out of the way and yield the future to Linux. 'The future is Linux and Microsoft Windows. It is not Unix or Solaris,' he claims, contending that Sun's strength in long-lifecycle apps is giving way to Linux, as evidenced by the rise of Web apps, where Linux holds a decided advantage, Zemlin claims. With capabilities such as ZFS and DTrace, Sun is trying to compete based on minor features, he says. 'That's literally like noticing the view from a third-story building as it burns to the ground.'
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RE: Offensive
by deb2006 on Sat 27th Sep 2008 18:56 UTC in reply to "Offensive"
deb2006
Member since:
2006-06-26

I find Zemlin's statements to be offensive and untrue. It is true that Linux is gaining popularity but that doesn't mean that Solaris is dead. Dismissing ZFS and DTrace as "minor features" just points to his lack of understanding - they are huge. ZFS is far superior to ext3 in almost any way thinkable and features futuristic technology while ext3 is very outdated and basic in comparison. DTrace is a huge help to developers who actually use it. Solaris is also incredibly reliable.

Linux has it's adantages (larger user base, easier to install & set up, slightly larger base of software available) but Solaris, BSD and other open-source UNIX-like OSes still have their places.


Nope. It's neither untrue nor offensive. It's simply the world as it is. ext3 is _one_ file system for Linux - which you'd certainly not compare to zfs. But comparing xfs and lvm with zfs is a completely different thing. See.

"Solaris is incredible reliable". Yes, sir. My Debian installation is also incredible reliable ...

What is the place for OpenSolaris then? I fail to see it. Please explain. (Don't get me wrong: zfs and dtrace are great - but simply not enough. It's the whole picture thar counts. And in that matter there is a crystal clear advantage for Linux ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Offensive
by Kebabbert on Sun 28th Sep 2008 08:51 in reply to "RE: Offensive"
Kebabbert Member since:
2007-07-27

Yes, you should not compare LVM + XFS to ZFS indeed. Ive heard horrendous stories. To create a raid with LVM takes like 20-30 commands with complex syntax. In ZFS you write one command, and you are off. No formatting that takes hours. Just start to use ZFS right away. Unless you have tried ZFS, you wouldnt know why the hype.




Linux beeing stable, yes it is easy to get it stable when we are talking about small installations and home use. Heck, even Windows will do for small installations. When you have complex things, then Linux will not cut it. As proved by some of the links Ive provided above. It is like "why mainframe? My Windows installation hasnt crashed once!" - Well, for large complex setups, Windows will not scale nor perform well. Nor Linux.
http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,s...






Also, I dont see why you Linux people are always _attacking_ others? Why so offensive? Why is it right to flame and humiliate others? Is it because of Linus Torvalds is leading the way? Linus said something like "Ive scared away all normal developers, and now the only developers that are left also thinks it is ok to insult other people. :o)". If you can not get people to do what you want, without insulting or fighting, then you are hardly empathic. But Linus has never been famous for being empathic and nice, he is often involved in flame wars, with Tanenbaum, OpenBSD, Solaris, etc.

Also, I dont get why Linus with his big ego ("I am your God" - speach on a linux conference) states that someone else called HIS creation for "Linux"? You know, If I had hacked on a project for a long time and were in charge, I would never allow someone else to name that project. That project is mine. Conclusion: Linus would not let someone randomly name his project. Stallman said: "well, I am not the one who is calling GNU for Stallmanix" - implying that Linux has big ego. Linus is calling it Linux. Not someone else. Linus would never allow someone to name his project. But that is in line with someone opens a Linux conference with "I am you God". Arrogant to some. Others who like to follow, might like it.

So, the Linux camp: why attack Solaris all the time? If you are threatened by Solaris (but want it's technology), you really dont have to attack. It is not the right way to get it's hot technology. Why not let Solaris be? Why are you being such a great pr*cks all the time? Why is it ok to bully others? Can someone explain the Linux culture of attacking people and companies and OS? Is it because of Linus Torvalds?






Stating that Linux scales badly above 4-8 cpu was not really correct maybe. It is better to state that Linux doesnt scale well above 16 cores:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=8769
Unless you do scientic number crunching, then there is a special Linux kernel tailored to that, allowing massively many CPUs, but it can do nothing else than that.


I dont know if you have seen what Andrew Morton says about Linux kernel? It is really buggy (beyond repair?)
http://lwn.net/Articles/285088/


Of course, there are links that showing to migrate from Solaris to Linux is better. But for instance this link, I think doesnt tell the whole picture:
http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,s...
If you migrated old Solaris 8 Sparc machines to new Solaris 10 machines then you would also see a big performance boost. Possibly even more a boost than going to RHEL as this link shows (Solaris on T1 Niagara CPU being 50 times faster than Linux on AMD opteron):

http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,s...

Edited 2008-09-28 09:11 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Offensive
by Kebabbert on Sun 28th Sep 2008 09:19 in reply to "RE[2]: Offensive"
Kebabbert Member since:
2007-07-27

"Of course, there are links that showing to migrate from Solaris to Linux is better. But for instance this link, I think doesnt tell the whole picture:
http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,s.....
If you migrated old Solaris 8 Sparc machines to new Solaris 10 machines then you would also see a big performance boost."

I forgot to add: If you migrated 800 old Solaris 8 Sparc machines to 4000 new machines with Solaris 10, then you would also see increased performance. Actually it would not matter if it were Linux or Solaris on the machines. It would be faster. Maybe Solaris would be slightly faster than Linux. But who knows?




For you developers who dont know what DTrace is. Read this short article that shows it's unique magical features, and tell me DTrace isnt overhyped. Only developers will understand this, you rest skip this:
http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_and_php_demonstrated

Edited 2008-09-28 09:28 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1