Linked by Amjith Ramanujam on Tue 18th Nov 2008 22:07 UTC, submitted by NicolasRoard
Window Managers The new 0.4 version of Etoile had just been released. Etoile intends to be an innovative, GNUstep-based, user environment built from the ground up on highly modular and light components. It is created with project and document orientation in mind, in order to allow users to create their own workflow by reshaping or recombining provided Services (aka Applications) and Components. 0.4 is a developer-targeted release on its way towards this goal. As a developer-focussed release, this predominantly consists of frameworks. A few demonstration applications are also included.
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RE: What Linux distributions ....
by heron on Wed 19th Nov 2008 02:50 UTC in reply to "What Linux distributions ...."
heron
Member since:
2005-08-07

I'm going to reply to your posting slightly out of order. See below:

"GNUstep has been languishing and broken in focus for years."

"I've read the "we are a framework[]" not a desktop environment rant for 5 years. Either this project grows, stays a niche with promise or dies. "

I'm assuming you're referring to GNUstep here. if you are, then I'm not sure what you mean by a lack of focus. ;) If the developers and the project leader, myself, are saying that it's a framework, then it's a framework. Where's the lack of focus if we're focused on being what we say we are?

The very first thing I did when i took over the project in late December 2006 was to refocus the project as a set of frameworks and development environment only. Please see my blog, here:

http://heronsperch.blogspot.com/2006/12/plans-for-change.html

For some reason, people seem to want it to be an environment, I'm not sure why. I think the real problem might be that what we are doesn't necessarily mesh with what many people think we should be.

There's no reason for GNUstep itself to focus on being a full desktop environment, since, as you can see.. the Etoile team has done an excellent job of creating a desktop for GNUstep.

"It's not going to compete against GNOME or KDE and neither of those two prevalent environment gives a rat's ass about offering bindings for ObjC so I can't forsee them jumping for joy over LLVM when it's C++ status finally is usable to the level matching GCC."

There are already ObjC bindings for GTK, please see here:

http://directory.fsf.org/project/gtk/

Also, KDevelop has support for ObjC.

Even if they didn't, gcc's ObjC++ provides a way to call C++ functions from Objective-C without the need for a bridge framework.

"I'm now trying to figure out how adding Smalltalk to Etoile is somehow going to improve the visibility and thus allow Cocoa developers become more interested in developing their applications [which helps drive interest] to GNUstep when ObjC2.0 and Cocoa first don't even fully support the Openstep API specification, let alone anywhere near complete support for OS X 10.4 nevermind 10.5."

I can't speak to what the Etoile teams intentions are, but I don't think that adding Smalltalk had anything to do with attracting Cocoa developers, at least that's what I believe.

Also, some of the things you state are common misunderstandings regarding GNUstep. Generally, GNUstep follows Cocoa and I'm currently aware of no commonly used parts of the OpenStep specification that GNUstep does not implement. The only pieces missing are certain classes which are rarely used or those that were deprecated when OpenStep became Cocoa. GNUstep, in fact, currently implements a large portion of the Cocoa framework.

As for being 10.4 or 10.5 compatible, we do implement a lot of 10.4 functionality, but, alas, we're a small team and we don't have the capacity to keep up with every single release Apple makes the moment it comes out.

Also, to complicate matters there is currently no free/open source implementation of ObjC2.0 anywhere except LLVM. I'm not certain what the situation is with the patches that Apple has made on their gcc branch or even if they're portable back to the main branch of gcc.


"I'd like to see it grow, but I'm not seeing any sort of bridge work to add these powerful frameworks into GNOME or KDE, ala Mono did for GNOME--not that I'm saying Mono is a win/win seeing as people either love or hate it."

We are doing our best to make GNUstep applications interoperable with KDE and GNOME and things should continue to improve on this front. See my blog posting above for points on this as well.

As I said on the FLOSS Weekly podcast recently (#44 for those who are interested) GNUstep needs developers more than anything right now. If you're interested in making GNUstep better, then please help out.

Sincerely,

Gregory Casamento
GNUstep Lead Developer

Reply Parent Score: 14

makkus Member since:
2006-01-11

If I read your post correctly then someday in the future it would be possible to port Osirix to Linux.

That would be awesome because PowerMACS are far to expensive for us and iMACS have a 4Gb limit.

I can garantee you that a project like Osirix on Linux would have a big impact on developers for your framework.

Reply Parent Score: 1

AlexandreAM Member since:
2006-02-06

Hello, Greg.

I've been following a few aspects of GNUStep Development from far away for a while, and it's nice to see someone that's immersed in this community so I can ask something:

How is the work going on porting WebKit into GnuStep (or any other good web rendering framework, actually)?

It's actually the one thing that pushes me away from GnuStep: I know I don't have the skills to port something like that, but if I could use it more often (and I'd need a good browser) I'd love to work on desktop applications using GnuStep, just because I enjoy ObjC ;)

Reply Parent Score: 3

Hypnos Member since:
2008-11-19

There have been some stalled efforts to port WebKit to GNUstep. It is a considerable, tedious undertaking.

That said, a functional Haiku port was created rather quickly, so it should also be possible for GNUstep in principle.

Reply Parent Score: 1

tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

I would say the following Wishlist is an area which reveals how much GNUstep has to go to complete Openstep API compatibility, not to mention other wishes:

http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/Summer_Of_Code_Ideas

Thaks for the response, Greg. You've always been a class act.

The reason I brought this up was for visibility.

I used to get people pissed off at me when I worked at Apple and they could not give me one respectable answer, other than where is the business case/profits in it for us cocka on our PPC platform [still myopic as has been proven with the growth of skilled ObjC developers the growth of the developer community and future product development], and they've continued to act as if GNUstep is someone's nice idea.

Part of my venting was actually towards GNOME and KDE. The GTK+ devs and the Qt devs could have done themselves a lot of legwork if they had worked well with you guys long ago. The work on WebKit would have gone much more rapidly, but then again I'm overly optimistic and altruistic that people will occasionally spread the wealth, so-to-speak, of knowledge when it's a win/win all around.

Reply Parent Score: 2