Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 6th Jan 2009 21:34 UTC
Windows Tech ARP has a collection of dates regarding Microsoft's update program. The upgrade program concerns upgrade paths from Windows Vista to Windows 7, and basically entails that when you buy a Windows Vista machine after July 1 2009, you will get a free upgrade to Windows 7 once it's released. The data also confirm a number of versions for Windows 7.
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RE: Smorgasbord
by flanque on Wed 7th Jan 2009 01:36 UTC in reply to "Smorgasbord"
flanque
Member since:
2005-12-15

F*uck you Microsoft! Take another page out of Appleā€™s play book and stop with the moronic version smorgasbord!


As opossed to the smorgasbord of linux distribution variations? If ever there's confusion about what variation to install, it's in the Linux operating system bubble.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Smorgasbord
by sbergman27 on Wed 7th Jan 2009 01:45 in reply to "RE: Smorgasbord"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

If ever there's confusion about what variation to install, it's in the Linux operating system bubble.

You often jump too quickly to conclusions, flanque. The OP seems more partial to OpenBSD. And last I looked, there was one OpenBSD. He has a point, and is standing on firm ground. And your post was tangential to that topic.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Smorgasbord
by flanque on Wed 7th Jan 2009 02:56 in reply to "RE[2]: Smorgasbord"
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

You often jump too quickly to conclusions, flanque. The OP seems more partial to OpenBSD. And last I looked, there was one OpenBSD. He has a point, and is standing on firm ground. And your post was tangential to that topic.

I often jump too quickly to conclusions? Really? Perhaps it's just an alternative point of view that doesn't align with yours. It's possible, but hey, I best not just too quickly to that conclusion.

I wasn't talking about specifically Apple's demonstration of how to do it.

I also wasn't suggesting that Bink thinks it's OK for Linux distributions yet somehow not OK for Windows varients.

I was talking about the general comment of Microsoft making the apparent availability of a smorgasbord of varients and constrasting that to the smorgasbord of Linux distribution varients.

The top 10 page on distrowatch even says (italic and bold mine):
The bewildering choice and the ever increasing number of Linux distributions can be confusing for those who are new to Linux.


That's all "on-topic". Your injection of personal references to me is more tangential, if anything.

Edited 2009-01-07 02:57 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Smorgasbord
by UltraZelda64 on Wed 7th Jan 2009 03:37 in reply to "RE: Smorgasbord"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

As opossed to the smorgasbord of linux distribution variations? If ever there's confusion about what variation to install, it's in the Linux operating system bubble.

At least with Linux, there are some noteworthy (read: major) differences between distros. They tend to cater to their own specific purposes of existence quite well, and then there are the general-purpose distros that don't hold anything back. Almost all of them being free, of course.

Windows is meant to be a general-purpose OS, so you'd expect it to have just about every OS-related feature that you need... yet, you always get the feeling, "man, I got screwed--I have to pay more to get another feature that I was able to use perfectly fine on another computer that had Windows [version] installed."

Either that, or you plop 400 bucks down on Ultimate (for whatever reason), and feel screwed for spending so much money just to be able to run your computer (and still being limited by things like the number of other computers allowed to connect to it at a time). You're basically screwed either way, the way I look at it.

Too bad Microsoft won't get realistic on their SKUs and pricing... yet, they'll practically pay certain governments in developing countries to use (and get locked into) their operating systems.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Smorgasbord
by google_ninja on Wed 7th Jan 2009 13:27 in reply to "RE[2]: Smorgasbord"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

75% of distros are debian or fedora with a different theme and/or different packages.

That is not "noteworthy difference", it is just noise. And we are not talking about 7 here, it is at least 100 that have no real reason for existence.

Edited 2009-01-07 13:28 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Smorgasbord
by dagw on Wed 7th Jan 2009 15:06 in reply to "RE: Smorgasbord"
dagw Member since:
2005-07-06

As opossed to the smorgasbord of linux distribution variations?

What does that have to do with anything? Just because there is someone worse doesn't make you good. Being second from last should never be anyones goal in any situation. The OP is spot on. Microsoft really should cut down on the number of versions they offer, no matter what Linux or anybody else may or may not do.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Smorgasbord
by RRepster on Wed 7th Jan 2009 17:06 in reply to "RE: Smorgasbord"
RRepster Member since:
2008-06-18

Linux users are more tech savvy and thus know the distro differences; therefore there is no confusion which you claim.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Smorgasbord
by flanque on Wed 7th Jan 2009 20:29 in reply to "RE[2]: Smorgasbord"
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

Uh, hold on a minute, I thought Linux is ready for the average user...?

It'd be almost, if not definately, impossible for the average user to know exactly what the differences are between each distribution, let alone know if they really make a difference to them.

The differences between some distributions is about as clear as mud.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Smorgasbord
by Piranha on Wed 7th Jan 2009 21:33 in reply to "RE: Smorgasbord"
Piranha Member since:
2008-06-24

Where does Linux fit in here at all? You really can't speak about "Linux" being catered to average users anyways, as this is simply incorrect. What user would know how to take source code, compile themselves a kernel, and build a userland? What we're focusing on is a distribution, and last I checked there was ONE Ubuntu, ONE Debian, ONE FreeBSD (by the way, OSX is based on BSD NOT Linux..), but you get my drift.

With a distribution like Ubuntu, at least people now have a sense of what they're running (maybe not what's truly lying underneath) and say "I'm running Ubuntu". They aren't saying "I'm running Linux version 2.6.19 cause 2.6.20 is too bleeding edge for me, and not sable enough". Even now, people are saying they're running "Windows" regardless if they're running Home or Ultimate.

And yes, the "Ultimate", "Home", "Business" really needs to be retired. With OSX, they have "OSX Leopard" or "OSX Leopard SERVER". When a customer sees "server" they are at least [usually] smart enough to know not to get that. Plus, the cost alone would likely deter them away.

Edited 2009-01-07 21:35 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Smorgasbord
by flanque on Wed 7th Jan 2009 22:11 in reply to "RE[2]: Smorgasbord"
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

Where does Linux fit in here at all? You really can't speak about "Linux" being catered to average users anyways, as this is simply incorrect. What user would know how to take source code, compile themselves a kernel, and build a userland? What we're focusing on is a distribution, and last I checked there was ONE Ubuntu, ONE Debian, ONE FreeBSD (by the way, OSX is based on BSD NOT Linux..), but you get my drift.

With a distribution like Ubuntu, at least people now have a sense of what they're running (maybe not what's truly lying underneath) and say "I'm running Ubuntu". They aren't saying "I'm running Linux version 2.6.19 cause 2.6.20 is too bleeding edge for me, and not sable enough". Even now, people are saying they're running "Windows" regardless if they're running Home or Ultimate.


I think you'll find a lot of people claiming that Linux is definately catered to average users, so much so that it is superior to Windows. Let's also keep in mind that when the majority of people say the word Linux they generalise this to mean a distribution of some sort and are not talking about the kernel itself.

Yes I agree that I don't think average users will understand the differences between kernel levels.

However, even at the basic distribubiton level and even keeping just the main ones in mind listed on DistroWatch, take a look at some of the pros and cons and ask yourself how on earth is someone who is isn't technical or is new to Linux (including the politics and philosphy behind it) even going start to identify which one suits their needs?

There's comments about lacking incompatibility, proprietry packages, patent deals and intellectual property, developer mailing lists and blogs can be uncultured at times, lack of "mindshare" among publishing houses, lacks release planning, conservative in terms of base package selection, and so on.

Yeah, I have cherry picked some of the cons from various distributions, but the point still remains that in even with just the top 10 distributions there's too many variables between the distributions for average users to dedicate effort to figuring out what it all means.

It's my view that the approach Linux has taken from a marketing and adoption perspective has been completely wrong. It's been too technically, politically and philosophically based and abscent minded to the fact that most people are more objective based when they use a computer.

It's my view that people want to know things like:

Can I browse the Internet and view websites fully?

Can I access my email?

Is it safe to use?

Can I do internet banking safely?

Can I do things like shopping online, booking holidays or tickets with my airline, etc?

Can I connect things like my printer, scanner, memory cards, camera?

Can I watch videos and movies?

Can I edit and manage photos and videos?

Can I still use my favorite software?


Maybe some don't agree with me, and that's fine, but this is my opinion either way.

Reply Parent Score: 2