Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 19th Aug 2009 16:23 UTC, submitted by Moulinneuf
Mozilla & Gecko clones Remember the very detailed proposal Microsoft submitted to the European Commission not too long ago about the browser ballot? This was quite the detailed proposal, covering just about every possible aspect of such a ballot screen. Responses were positive from within the EC, but now it seems that according to the Mozilla Foundation, the proposal is not good enough.
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RE: Not Legitimate
by sbergman27 on Wed 19th Aug 2009 20:13 UTC in reply to "Not Legitimate"
sbergman27
Member since:
2005-07-24

First, the idea that installing one browser removes another is silly.

That ballot concept is, in itself flawed. It's like saying that Candidate A is going to be your country's president. That's a done deal. It's been decided behind closed doors. But we, the people, get to elect another person who is also going to be president. Even someone with your extreme and obvious bias on the topic should be able to see that.

The ballot should be to decide what browser the user wants to use. Due to MS's previous politics, I almost have to agree that the inclusion of Trident, in any case, is necessary. It is unfortunate. And it is wrong. But it is necessary compromise. But it is also as much compromise as is warranted. I absolutely do not agree with the distorted view of the matter which you are selling. And, honestly, I am seriously beginning to wonder who pulls your puppet strings, Molly. And I don't say that lightly.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Not Legitimate
by ringham on Wed 19th Aug 2009 20:37 in reply to "RE: Not Legitimate"
ringham Member since:
2006-03-23

That ballot concept is, in itself flawed. It's like saying that Candidate A is going to be your country's president. That's a done deal. It's been decided behind closed doors.


How exactly is ballot concept flawed? Your logic is flawed there - the ballot is there to choose, but you somehow are twisting it around into a situation where the choice has been made for the consumer. I don't quite understand what point you're trying to make. The consumer will be allowed to choose. That's not a done deal decided behind closed doors. Where are you getting that idea from?

I almost have to agree that the inclusion of Trident, in any case, is necessary. It is unfortunate. And it is wrong.


Uhh, why is it wrong for Microsoft to include a component of the OS, something that IE is built on, and something that no other browser is forced to use in any way shape or form? How exactly is that wrong?

Your comment makes absolutely no sense.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Not Legitimate
by sbergman27 on Wed 19th Aug 2009 20:41 in reply to "RE[2]: Not Legitimate"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Uhhh... RTFA much? No matter which browser you choose to use, IE is on the desktop, on the panel, and in the menus. OK, "In the menus" might be defensible. But certainly not the part where the user has said "I want to use Chrome" and IE is then put all over the desktop. You (and Molly) are clearly the one's "twisting" the issue.

Edited 2009-08-19 20:41 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

Awww, you hurt my feelings.
by MollyC on Thu 20th Aug 2009 01:31 in reply to "RE: Not Legitimate"
MollyC Member since:
2006-07-04

Let me get this straight: I have extreme and obvious bias, but you're totally objective, right? LOL



And, honestly, I am seriously beginning to wonder who pulls your puppet strings, Molly. And I don't say that lightly.


OK, let me deal with your personal attack against me, which takes the form of the above insulting innuendo (someone's "pulling my puppet strings"? Are you serious?):
I don't have any "puppet strings", let alone a puppet master that's pulling them. And if you think about it, why would someone "pull my puppet strings" to post anything whatsoever to this site?

sbergman, we've usually been on opposing sides, but I recall when we could do that in a friendly manner. But you've recently developed a personal grudge against me (as evidenced by your dumping me from your friends list, which I just noticed today) which is clouding your judgement and causing you make baseless personal attacks. Maybe you need to "take a stress pill and think things over" (to quote HAL, from 2001). And realize that just because I disagree with you, and consider Opera's and now (sadly) Mozilla's complaints to be whining, and I question the EC's procedures when arriving at their dictates, does not mean that someone is "pulling my puppet strings", paying me to post here (if that's what your insulting comment was meant to imply) or anything else. I come to this site on my own accord, nobody else's. I visit this site when I want to, not at someone's behest. I post what I want, not what anyone tells me to.

I'm disappointed that you've thrown your lot in with the "You're an astroturfer!!" crowd. Such was once beneath you. Maybe you're just having a bad day.

As for the substance of your post, I was going to address it, but since you've decided (at least for the nonce) that questioning my integrity is a valid debate tactic, I won't waste my time. (Not that it matters at all. Winning or losing debates on this site doesn't matter at all in the real world (which is why the notion of "puppet masters" and "puppet strings" is so ridiculous). Know that.)

Well, I can't resist. ;) You say including Trident is "wrong". Why? That's part of the Windows API. Both COM and .NET apis. 3rd party apps rely on that. Just like third party apps rely on DirectX, GDI, the Clipboard API, etc. Just like Mac apps rely on WebKit or QuickTime API. So now including API libraries is "wrong"? When does it stop? Where does it end?

I'll close with this:
Despite your insult, I still like you and respect your posts (except the above one). Cheers!

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Awww, you hurt my feelings.
by wumip on Thu 20th Aug 2009 19:39 in reply to "Awww, you hurt my feelings."
wumip Member since:
2009-08-20

sbergman, we've usually been on opposing sides, but I recall when we could do that in a friendly manner. But you've recently developed a personal grudge against me

Having read your comments, I can understand why. Do you work for Microsoft or something? You seem to be shilling on their behalf.

And realize that just because I disagree with you, and consider Opera's and now (sadly) Mozilla's complaints to be whining


What about Microsoft's antitrust complaints? Are they fine just because it's Microsoft?

Reply Parent Score: 0