Linked by tessmonsta on Mon 18th Jan 2010 18:12 UTC
KDE I've been investigating switching my desktop distribution from Kubuntu to something more... Seriously maintained. I love debian, and consider it one of the best distros out there, but Ubuntu's KDE variant is downright pathetic.
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by Trenien on Mon 18th Jan 2010 19:03 UTC
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tessmonsta, you say that RPM distros feel wrong to you because of, as I understand, dependency hell and related problems. I understand prefering apt-get to urpmi, as it still is somewhat faster (there have been huge improvement on that front in the last couple of years); my distro of choice is Mandriva, and I haven't had any dependency problem in years.
Honestly the "dependency hell" image associated with RPM distros is plain outdated. Nowadays it's as solid as that of the debian based ones.

That said, I only suggest giving a try to Mandriva again because I heard more than once that its KDE4 implementation was top notch, I don't use it myself.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Mandriva?
by molnarcs on Mon 18th Jan 2010 19:11 in reply to "Mandriva?"
molnarcs Member since:

You probably heard it right ;) I used Mandriva for a couple of months, the previous release, not the current one though. All I can say is that it was smooth, polished, very well integrated - probably it's the best KDE distro out there. And about the recent release - the reviews I have read are just as glowing and positive as the reviews of the one I've tried - so it seems to be the Mandriva guys are on the right track.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Mandriva?
by jonnjonzzn on Mon 18th Jan 2010 21:02 in reply to "Mandriva?"
jonnjonzzn Member since:

As an IT Professional I prefer a stable, working professional desktop. And right now that is Gnome.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE: Mandriva?
by sorpigal on Tue 19th Jan 2010 00:39 in reply to "Mandriva?"
sorpigal Member since:

I keep hearing this "rpm isn't so bad any more" -- I've been hearing it since 2002 at least. I keep looking and it keeps being horrible.

Can I install my system and do an online upgrade to the next version without a reinstall?

Can I pick and choose piecemeal packages from newer releases and not fear breakage? (That is, can I trust the package manager to take care of this?)

Have non-Debian distributions finally started sanitizing the FHS? I just can't ever use SuSE, because every time I look in /etc/ or /usr/ I want to cry, then I want to kill someone. I know you were referring to mandriva, but it wasn't much better there last I knew.

Basically, so many things in Debian make sense and though the overall user experience is worse (at the start anyway) compared to other distributions, the specific details are almost always better. Upstart is one of the few things I've seen elsewhere where I said "This is better then what Debian has." Over time the Debian experience is in my opinion far better as the system remains stable and updates cleanly.

The only superiority elsewhere, as far as I can tell, is in user experience polish which (frankly) I don't need.

Edited 2010-01-19 00:43 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Mandriva?
by molnarcs on Tue 19th Jan 2010 05:58 in reply to "RE: Mandriva?"
molnarcs Member since:

Answers depend on the distro. .deb and .rpm are just file formats, and the answer to your questions depends on the package manager (yum, zypper, urpmi, etc.) on one hand, and the quality of the distribution on the other. Take Kubuntu for example. It uses deb AND it uses apt yes? Still, upgrade from one version to the other never ever worked for me - and I tried 3 times: Feisty->Gutsy, Gutsy->Heron, Heron->Ibex. In the latter case, I ended up with a system that was completely unbootable. Not just the usual X wouldn't start, wireless doesn't load, etc - kernel panic on reboot.

You certainly cannot mix and match packages from different versions or from debian. You can try, the may work, but the same can be said about almost any other distro (you can install select packages from cooker on mandriva with a very high probability of them working).

It was a very long time ago that I used Debian, but at that time, mixing packages didn't work (although I tried to use a kernel from unstable in testing for hardware compatibility). So your questions can be easily reversed - have debian based distroes gotten their act together? Can they do online update from one version to another? Can you install packages from newer versions on an old system without breakage? The answer may vary depending on the distribution you choose.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Mandriva?
by boldingd on Tue 19th Jan 2010 16:09 in reply to "RE: Mandriva?"
boldingd Member since:

My biggest complaint is that, with most of the RPM-based distributions that I've tried, that graphical package managers are awful. I've tried both Fedora 11 and 12, and pretty much use YUM on the command-line exclusively, as the GUI manager is just unusably bad. One thing that drove me absolutely crazy, at least for 11, was that the GUI package manager couldn't queue multiple transactions -- so I had to do one package and its dependacies at a time -- and that it was slow as molasses at Christmas: between those two factors, a transaction that would've taken five minutes with Synaptic took 15 ot twenty with... whatever it was, I forget what it was called. Not to mention that -- again, so far as I recall -- it had to re-read the package database after every transaction, which just made the whole infuriatingly slow process that much worse.

I tried SuSE 11.0 some time ago, and the package management experience -- and system administration experience in general -- was so awful that it compelled a distro switch in short order, and I'm not going back anytime soon. I could write a book about how awful SuSE's package management was. It was bad. It was slow, complicated, confusing, unreliable, difficult to configure, and system-breaking. It was... bad!

Reply Parent Score: 2