Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 1st Feb 2010 16:25 UTC
General Development While the iPad can certainly be debated as a product, people on the internet are discussing not the product, but the shift devices like the iPhone and iPad represent: a shift away from a computer being accessible to it being something closed and impenetrable. Is this a future we want for ourselves?
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RE[4]: Same old whining. . .
by KingRocky on Mon 1st Feb 2010 20:19 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Same old whining. . ."
KingRocky
Member since:
2009-07-30


I'll bet 30' old car reliability was very similar than modern ones, if not better: all embedded electronics didn't improve reliabilty that much. Your car don't refuse to start due to mechanical issue like in past today, but due to electronics (sensors, crappy firmwares or bad communication cables). Big deal.


30 years ago, if you told someone that you expected your Chevrolet to even MAKE IT to 100,000 miles, you'd have been laughed out of the room. Cars back then could be expected to last 50-60,000 miles, and you were lucky to get a warranty that covered half of that.

Nowadays, Chevrolet is GUARANTEEING that your powertrain will last 100,000 miles, thanks to all of those computers and sensors that you claim to not like. I don't hear anyone complaining that they can't install Linux on their engine control computer because Chevrolet uses a "closed ecosystem."

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Same old whining. . .
by phoudoin on Tue 2nd Feb 2010 10:37 in reply to "RE[4]: Same old whining. . ."
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

First, I don't know about american cars average milage and reliability level, but my grand-family own a Citroen 2CV and did over 150000 km with it (~100000 miles) without that much issue. Many families did the same too, as at this time changing the car every 2-3 years wasn't even financially possible. So, my mileage vary ;-)

Second, you succeed to avoid my point, which was *not* that powertrain reliability improved due to embebbed electronics these days, but the *overall* car reliability, which I claim didn't improved that much, thanks to complexity added. My apple-car-analogy point is that the closed ecosystem in car manufacturer has far more to do with locking customers to their own repair shops network than with improving car overall reliability. Otherwise, why one will need to repair his car *ever*!?

It's not in car manufacturers to make their cars too much reliables. But it's in their interest that 1) it will need to be repaired sometimes - but not too often, or they will lost customers - and 2) it could be *only* in their own repair shops, not someone else.

See some analogy?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Same old whining. . .
by KingRocky on Tue 2nd Feb 2010 13:22 in reply to "RE[5]: Same old whining. . ."
KingRocky Member since:
2009-07-30

First, I don't know about american cars average milage and reliability level, but my grand-family own a Citroen 2CV and did over 150000 km with it (~100000 miles) without that much issue. Many families did the same too, as at this time changing the car every 2-3 years wasn't even financially possible. So, my mileage vary ;-)


Really?? Your family really owned and drove a Citroen for 150,000km without EVER having to work on a carburetor, adjust ignition points, adjust ignition timing, lubricate the chassis, change the spark plugs, cap, rotor or spark plug wires??

Impossible.

On a modern car, you don't have to touch ANY of those things for the first 150,000km. All you have to do is put gas in it and change the oil, which can be done by anyone anywhere.

And if someone is offering me GUARANTEED performance, then YES, I will take it back to where I bought it to get it fixed!

A modern automobile is so complex it boggles the mind. It has multiple computers controlling multiple things - all for the safety, comfort, reliability, performance, economy and cleanliness that the buying public and the government DEMAND.

And if I were a car manufacturer, there's NO WAY I'd EVER let some random mechanic start poking around in my newest creation that I just spent a BILLION DOLLARS developing.

Because ultimately, if something goes wrong and the mechanic is unable to fix it, or does a poor repair job and the problem comes back, the one who looks bad is the MANUFACTURER, NOT THE MECHANIC who didn't know what he was doing because he ASSUMED that everything works the same way it did on last year's model.

Reply Parent Score: 2