Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 9th Mar 2010 16:58 UTC
Legal We have some very, very good news for Europeans (which happens to include myself): we have the European Parliament on our sides when it comes to battling ACTA. If you may recall, ACTA is basically an attempt by the US to impose upon the rest of the world draconian measures like three strikes laws and the DMCA. All parties within the European Parliament have together put forth a resolution that would effectively tackle ACTA.
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WereCatf
Member since:
2006-02-15

How is three strikes Draconian? You're given two warnings before losing internet access. Is enforcing the law Draconian?

First of all, it'd mean ISPs were forced to monitor all data going in or out and maintain insanely huge lists of illegal material; that is really freaking costly and as such would bar any start-ups from ever becoming successful.

Secondly, it's pretty easy to spoof things and make it seem like someone is downloading illegal stuff and thus cause the said person to lose Internet access. A private person has no way of proving his or her innocence in such a case. And how about if you have friends over or something, and someone accidentally or intentionally downloads something and it happens to be illegal material? Yes, you'd get the blame.

Thirdly, Internet access is nowadays a must. There's so many things you just can't do anymore in any reasonable way without having access to Internet and, for whatever the reason, if you lost access to it you'd instantly become an outcast and would lose out on a large part of modern society.

Fourth, obtaining such material shouldn't be punishable. You don't get jailtime or fines for buying bootleg DVDs or CDs either, why should digital wares be different? It's the one selling that stuff or putting it up who's committing the illegal act. Also circumventing protections on material should be allowed so that you can use the material you've bought; there's many alternative OSes and applications out there available completely for free of charge and as such the developer(s) can't buy licenses for stuff, also in many cases DRM causes the material to be non-working or non-accessible after a certain time due to authentication servers going down permanently, bad coding, or one of the other billion reasons and in such cases you'll be locked out of your legally obtained material.

It has been said before that geeks are the worst when it comes to undermining their own industry. Thom would put people who read this site out of work or into other industries just so he can feel better about torrenting movies.

If you really believe this is just about people wanting to continue torrenting movies then you're so far away from the track that I'd need a warp drive and a year of time to be able to reach you.

EDIT: Fixed typo.

Edited 2010-03-09 20:51 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 8

nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26


First of all, it'd mean ISPs were forced to monitor all data going in or out and maintain insanely huge lists of illegal material; that is really freaking costly and as such would bar any start-ups from ever becoming successful.


No it would be quite easy. Repeat offenders would be reported to ISPs and they would lose service after being warned. It's that simple.


Secondly, it's pretty easy to spoof things and make it seem like someone is downloading illegal stuff and thus cause the said person to lose Internet access.


IP spoofing is not easy if you are targeting a specific range. Packets can be traced and network logs will show if a 7 GB movie actually went through your local hub or not.

A three-strikes law would involve a warning system which means a strike could be appealed and this type of a scenario could be handled properly.


Thirdly, Internet access is nowadays a must.

It isn't a right and there's always the public library. The only people that would have a problem with this are the ones who pirate media.


Fourth, obtaining such material shouldn't be punishable. You don't get jailtime or fines for buying bootleg DVDs or CDs either, why should digital wares be different? It's the one selling that stuff or putting it up who's committing the illegal act.


Because tacitly allowing digital piracy is harmful to the industries that create the digital products that people enjoy. Laws need to exist that encourage people to buy media from the people that made it. That doesn't need to involve jailtime.

Reply Parent Score: 2

ichi Member since:
2007-03-06

IP spoofing is not easy if you are targeting a specific range. Packets can be traced and network logs will show if a 7 GB movie actually went through your local hub or not.


IP spoofing? It's far more simple than that: wireless routers.

They are such a plague over here that you could easily get 20Mb from a bunch of neighbors' connections combined and they wouldn't even notice the speed drop. And almost all of them have default admin passwords, just in case you need to configure NAT.

Reply Parent Score: 3

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

No it would be quite easy. Repeat offenders would be reported to ISPs and they would lose service after being warned. It's that simple.

Who would do the reporting? ISPs? Some private companies? Police?

No private companies should have the right to monitor everyone's activities and data on the Internet, that'd be a serious breach of privacy and rights.

ISPs? Well, I already explained why that'd be a very bad idea.

Police? They're already busy with other stuff, and besides, only ISPs have access to every part of their network and only ISPs can log everything needed. A random entity on the Internet can only log what _appears_ to be a certain IP or MAC address, they can't know for certain if it is actually it.

Besides, who'd maintain what is legal and what isn't? What is illegal in one country isn't that in another and as such all countries would have to change their criminal laws.

IP spoofing is not easy if you are targeting a specific range. Packets can be traced and network logs will show if a 7 GB movie actually went through your local hub or not.

IP spoofing isn't easy? Gee, go ask any network administrator about that. And while at it, ask how easy it is to spoof MAC addresses too.

And about the local hub: well gee, only ISPs can monitor and log all of their hubs..

It isn't a right and there's always the public library. The only people that would have a problem with this are the ones who pirate media.

Actually incorrect. Here in Finland atleast Internet access IS a legal right. I don't know if it is in other countries though. And no, people who value general rights and privacy also have a problem with this; someone constantly sniffing out what you're doing just happens to be a privacy intrusion and as easy as it is to spoof things on the Internet only ISPs have all the needed requirements to be able to fully monitor what is going on.

Because tacitly allowing digital piracy is harmful to the industries that create the digital products that people enjoy. Laws need to exist that encourage people to buy media from the people that made it. That doesn't need to involve jailtime.

Piracy is harmful to any kind of industry, not just digital industry. And sure, if such laws could be made I'd be for them, but ONLY as long as they wouldn't breach one's privacy or personal rights. Unfortunately, ACTA doesn't qualify.

Reply Parent Score: 3

The1stImmortal Member since:
2005-10-20

"First of all, it'd mean ISPs were forced to monitor all data going in or out and maintain insanely huge lists of illegal material; that is really freaking costly and as such would bar any start-ups from ever becoming successful.


No it would be quite easy. Repeat offenders would be reported to ISPs and they would lose service after being warned. It's that simple.
"

Um... repeat *offenders*, or those who are repeatedly alleged to be offenders? I'm in Australia, and thanks to the recent IINet court decision here, noone need care anymore about a mere allegation here - obviously if the police or a court is involved one must pay attention however.
(Given the tendencies of our current Information Minister, however, I reckon it's only a matter of time before legislation changes on that point)

I feel sorry for countries where the mere *suggestion* of unauthorized use of copyrighted materials (I'm not going to use "theft" ;) ) is enough to deny or withdraw service.

A three-strikes law would involve a warning system which means a strike could be appealed and this type of a scenario could be handled properly.


The problem is that the accuser and not the accused is assumed to be right. The burden of proof should be on the party making the allegation, not the end-user.

" Thirdly, Internet access is nowadays a must.

It isn't a right and there's always the public library. The only people that would have a problem with this are the ones who pirate media.
"
I love this argument.
"We should search everyone's home monthly. The only people who have a problem with this would be the ones doing things wrong!". Yeah. No thanks.

Edited 2010-03-09 23:05 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11


IP spoofing is not easy if you are targeting a specific range. Packets can be traced and network logs will show if a 7 GB movie actually went through your local hub or not.


Well, in our country most are connecting through PPPoE (FTTB) so, if I hack someone's box to get his username & password, I can actually conect to the net like him, download something naugthy and see him banned from the Internet.

Reply Parent Score: 2