Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 27th May 2010 11:32 UTC
Apple It's rumour time! Analyst Trip Chowdhry, with Global Equities Research, is claiming that Microsoft has been allotted seven minutes during Steve Jobs' WWDC keynote speech. Supposedly, the Redmond giant will unveil that developers will be able to write native iPhone, iPad, and Mac applications using Visual Studio 2010 on Windows. As crazy as this sounds, this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who can move beyond the outdated Apple vs. Microsoft attitude.
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Pardon?
by segedunum on Thu 27th May 2010 14:22 UTC
segedunum
Member since:
2005-07-06

As anyone who is aware of the company's history knows, Microsoft is a very practical company, and isn't religious about any of its choices.

Excuse me while I get up off the floor from laughing.

All of Microsoft's products are geared to running on one platform - Windows. That's it. That's why you don't see .Net running properly on Linux or Unix systems (Mono doesn't count) and why SQL Server is not available there either even though there is a large installed base of servers. On what planet do you think Microsoft do cross-platform development and aren't religious Thom?

Things have got pretty desperate in Windows Mobile land for them to do this, but hey, it at least keeps developers developing for the iPhone on Windows and using Visual Studio (no Visual Studio for the Mac, note) in these desperate times - which means they're still using Windows on their desktops. You wouldn't see Microsoft agreeing to this if the positions were reversed.

I'm afraid you have no idea what you're talking about Thom. Strategic thinking in the software world is extremely important, and Microsoft have done more than their fair share of it - not that it's wrong. You need to think carefully about what medium and long-term effects you will have on your own platform, because if you follow the short-term money you end up getting eaten later.

If Microsoft 'went where the money was' then we'd all be e-mailing WordPerfect or 1-2-3 files around now and Novell wouldn't have run out of ideas and be getting taken over, and they certainly have followed the money, or at least tried to. Nonsense.

For a recent confirmation, just look at how carefully Apple avoided talking about Windows Mobile when suing HTC - it was all Android.

Because Windows Mobile is utterly useless and irrelevant. However, if you want to take that as a compliment.......

Reply Score: 0

RE: Pardon?
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 27th May 2010 14:30 in reply to "Pardon?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

On what planet do you think Microsoft do cross-platform development and aren't religious Thom?


Not being religious means they have no qualms about supporting competing products, as long as there's something in it for Microsoft. Microsoft have shown time and time again that as long as it it makes sense money-wise, they'll do pretty much whatever.

For instance, that's why they're putting so much effort into making it easy to run an open source server stack on Windows (as opposed to using all-Microsoft tools). Microsoft knows that people want those open source tools, so they'll help getting them to run optimally on Windows - even when they have their own, competing products.

That's what I mean by not being religious. I thought that was pretty obvious.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Pardon?
by segedunum on Thu 27th May 2010 15:12 in reply to "RE: Pardon?"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Microsoft have shown time and time again that as long as it it makes sense money-wise, they'll do pretty much whatever.

Microsoft have done a succession of things that eat money and don't make financial sense at all in the hope that one day everything will gravitate towards Windows, Office, Sharepoint, Windows Mobile or something else. For the two big ones that eventually worked. For the other things, they're still banging away at them even though they're losing a lot of money and there is no indication there will be a repeat of what happened with Windows and Office. You might call that a bit religious. Hell, they have people called 'Platform Evangelists' for crying out loud.

Again, you're rather fuzzy on undestanding Microsoft's history Thom.

Microsoft knows that people want those open source tools, so they'll help getting them to run optimally on Windows - even when they have their own, competing products.

Until the situation reaches what they feel is a critical mass and either the stack is taken in-house and extended or dropped altogether (Java) - regardless of what money they could make by leaving the environment alone. It's happened time and again.

That's what I mean by not being religious. I thought that was pretty obvious.

Well, no. They are about as religious as anyone can be about their own platform, and no, this is not as simple and naive as saying "They're following the money" - as explained. They're not making any money out of this. It's purely a defensive thing about stopping developers leaking from Windows and Visual Studio to other platforms.

It's a naive and unrealistic view of things that doesn't match up with reality.

If it indeed is true..... Personally, I have a hard time believing they would bolster another platform like this, but they wouldn't want to lose developers to another platform either.

Edited 2010-05-27 15:15 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Pardon?
by Laurence on Thu 27th May 2010 16:35 in reply to "RE: Pardon?"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

Not being religious means they have no qualms about supporting competing products, as long as there's something in it for Microsoft. Microsoft have shown time and time again that as long as it it makes sense money-wise, they'll do pretty much whatever.

For instance, that's why they're putting so much effort into making it easy to run an open source server stack on Windows (as opposed to using all-Microsoft tools). Microsoft knows that people want those open source tools, so they'll help getting them to run optimally on Windows - even when they have their own, competing products.

That's what I mean by not being religious. I thought that was pretty obvious.

While I agreed with your original article and found x comments to be bordering on trolling, I do not agree with your reply:
-> Microsoft run plenty of their platforms at a loss (XBox, online portals, etc) to drive people away from competing products that are both popular and profitable.
-> They undercut Linux (a "free" OS) on netbooks to drive people towards Windows.

Microsoft are like the Tesco / Wallmart of IT - they'll constantly undercut the competition and happily run entire departments at a loss until they own the local market and then they'll hike the prices right up.

So all this "non-religious" cross-development is nothing more than selling Kellogs Cornflakes in store knowing that most consumers will inevitably end up buying the supermarkets own brand. Thus it's not offering customers choice or "what they want" - it's just a baited hook to lure more customers in before trapping them/us into Microsofts own platforms.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Pardon?
by dpJudas on Thu 27th May 2010 22:03 in reply to "RE: Pardon?"
dpJudas Member since:
2009-12-10

Although I do agree with you that Microsoft isn't the Great Satan as often described, they do things that can only be explained by "religious" behavior.

For example, if you had ever tried developing an asp.net application you would notice that the default error page shown selects some font sizes that look absolutely awful in any other browser than Internet Explorer. Now, had this been ANY other company than Microsoft this would naturally have been fixed a long long time ago (its a 10 year old 'feature' of .Net now).

There are countless examples over the years where it would make perfect business sense to support a certain feature set or platform but where the "religion" of Microsoft simply forbids them to pursue that opportunity.

Microsoft's basic principle has always been to only support other platforms if that serves as a way to get people onto their own platform and when they succeed they stop maintaining the other platform.

This rumor, if true, is no different: they know they lost the current round in the mobile OS war and are now attempting to get back in by stopping that people must acquire a Mac to develop for the iPhone and iPad.

Then their next step will be to improve the Windows Mobile SDK and when the time is right they will discontinue the Mac support. Just like they have always done.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Pardon?
by gnufreex on Fri 28th May 2010 02:04 in reply to "RE: Pardon?"
gnufreex Member since:
2010-05-06

How about SQL server on Linux? Oracle has Linux port, what about non-religious Microsoft? ROFL.


Microsoft is most religious company I know. Temple of proprietary software zealotry. Free Software side does not have counter weight to their zealotry. BoycottNovell.com is not as FLOSS zealous as Microsoft is proprietary zealous.

Microsoft might do anything for money, but they do not look only on money. They more look how to hurt competitor. If they have one option which brings them 2 billions but is neutral to competition (neither hurts them or helps them) and other option which bring them 100 million but screws over and hurts competition, they will chose 100 million option.

They never think about how to make better technology. They always think how to screw other guy, remove users choice and sell their overpriced and bug riddled crap. And they are very religious about that. In crap they believe.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Pardon?
by nt_jerkface on Thu 27th May 2010 17:14 in reply to "Pardon?"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

All of Microsoft's products are geared to running on one platform - Windows. That's it.


That's not true, they released a standalone hypervisor server for free and it officially supports both Suse and RHEL. That amounts to being able to use their software to manage Linux servers which is a huge change from 10 years ago.


That's why you don't see .Net running properly on Linux or Unix systems (Mono doesn't count) and why SQL Server is not available there either even though there is a large installed base of servers.


Yea but they already give asp.net development tools away for free on the assumption that you will run your web app on Winserver. You can't expect them to give away the farm.

As for SQL Server on Nix that would be interesting but I doubt there would be much of a market when mixed shops tend to use an open source DB on the backend. SQL Server gets very expensive and would likely be a waste of money if you already have Nix servers setup.

Reply Parent Score: 2