Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 28th Oct 2010 20:07 UTC, submitted by poundsmack
Legal Now, this is an interesting development in the ongoing war against Android. Oracle didn't just sue Google for allegedly infringing its Java patents; it also claimed copyright infringement. Oracle has amended its complaint, and, fair is fair, they've got the code to prove it: indeed, Android contains code that appears to be copied verbatim from Java - mind you, appears. However, the code in question comes straight from Apache's Harmony project, which raises the question - would a respected and long-established cornerstone of the open source world really accept tainted code in the first place?
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RE[2]: Maybe that...
by vodoomoth on Fri 29th Oct 2010 12:33 UTC in reply to "RE: Maybe that..."
vodoomoth
Member since:
2010-03-30

drop Java? All those lovely apps need to be rewritten.... Devs would simply swap platforms (blackberry, webOS, W7p)

The apps would need to be converted, hence the converter I hinted at. Run a batch program over your code tree, wait a few seconds/minutes and you're done. No fiddling with the code, no algorithm change, no manual editing required. If the conversion is seamless, it won't be a thorn in any developer's foot even if they'll have to learn that new language. It's not like language cheatsheets are a rare thing.

I'm talking about idempotent transformations conversions such as the C++ syntax proposed in http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/papers/HTML/ModestProposal.ht..., where the syntax is different as no C++ compiler would accept that.

Google can do something of that kind for Java syntax. If they are not officially supporting Java but rather that differently-branded resyntax, what weight would Oracle's claims have? No much I think: a different VM is targeted, the byte code is different and the language would be different because of a different syntax. As I'm writing this, .NET and C# come to mind... How different is C# from C++ and Java? I don't know as I've never written anything for .NET whether in C# or another .NET-suitable language but I guess not much more than what I was proposing.

What languages are used to write apps on those other platforms? Is it universally Java? If not, then moving to another platform because of the Android app language changing would be hard to understand/justify, all the more if Google offers the tools to make the change seamless. Which is not an easy task (and I can only guess) because 1- third-party libraries also need conversion and 2- the pace the smartphone market and technologies are evolving may be too fast to not be a serious hurdle.

To sum up, I don't see a problem in "cross-compiling" java source code to another syntax that's semantically equivalent and I don't see why Google didn't just go with OpenJDK which, from what I've read so far, is by nature immune to the current lawsuit. What were they thinking using the Java syntax but producing byte code that's incompatible with any existing JVM? That was a bad decision the consequences of which are now biting them in the rear end because if I am not mistaken, doing so is forbidden by some license, agreement, terms of usage, etc. somewhere. Isn't it?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Maybe that...
by nt_jerkface on Fri 29th Oct 2010 21:38 in reply to "RE[2]: Maybe that..."
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

How different is C# from C++ and Java? I don't know as I've never written anything for .NET whether in C# or another .NET-suitable language but I guess not much more than what I was proposing.


Experienced C++ and Java programmers can pick up C# and though your idea of a mass conversion is interesting and technically possible (with tweaking) you would run into a human problem. A lot of Java programmers have supported Android because it uses Java. Many of them are very anti MS/.NET and would rather drink paint than learn C#.

What were they thinking using the Java syntax but producing byte code that's incompatible with any existing JVM?


Their intention was to discourage apps from being ported to other platforms. It was also done during a time when Sun was obsessed with looking open source friendly so they were not worried about a lawsuit.

What they should do is make a deal with Oracle and add in Java ME support. Let developers decide which one is better.

Edited 2010-10-29 21:41 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2