Linked by Hadrien Grasland on Tue 25th Jan 2011 15:16 UTC, submitted by jimmy1971
Windows "A class action lawsuit against Microsoft has been filed in Italy by a group claiming that it's too difficult to procure a refund for the copies of Windows that come bundled in new PCs."
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RE: The difference
by metalf8801 on Tue 25th Jan 2011 21:18 UTC in reply to "The difference"
metalf8801
Member since:
2010-03-22

I don't see why you think Apple shouldn't have to play by the same rules as Microsoft. Just because they have a smaller market share on the desktop market doesn't mean they don't have to play by the same rules. Also please keep in mind that Apple is just as big as Microsoft. They both make billions of dollars every year.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: The difference
by mrhasbean on Tue 25th Jan 2011 22:36 in reply to "RE: The difference"
mrhasbean Member since:
2006-04-03

I don't see why you think Apple shouldn't have to play by the same rules as Microsoft. Just because they have a smaller market share on the desktop market doesn't mean they don't have to play by the same rules. Also please keep in mind that Apple is just as big as Microsoft. They both make billions of dollars every year.


It's really got nothing to do with market share. See the earlier post, Apple are selling a single product. Apple sell the Mac specifically to run OSX, which Apple also produce, and therefore it's sold as a single unified product. The fact that others have written OS's that will run on the Mac is immaterial because the Mac isn't sold as generic hardware - it's sold as hardware that runs Mac OSX. PC vendors choose to bundle Windows with their generic hardware and the whole PC industry has played the "oh but over here you have more choice" card for years - you can't have it both ways.

In saying that, this is pure stupidity. If Microsoft have put a procedure in place then that's the procedure, as are any caveats that go along with it. If the PC vendor is "giving" you the Windows license that would (should) be outlined somewhere in their T&C or EULA and anyone planning on pushing for a refund should have read these before proceeding.

Whinging about it is like bellowing about having to fill in forms and get credit history checks to get a housing loan, or provide a detailed description of the accident and your driving history to make an insurance claim. The problem is that everyone wants to pass all responsibility back to the vendor. What about the requirement that individuals actually READ the details about shit they're buying? You know, like the EULA or T&C's or PDS's.

We've seen a lot of that in this part of the world recently. Following some of the worst floods in the country's history people are screaming at their insurance companies because they're not offering cover for flood damage to their homes, yet it's common practise in the industry to tell people up-front, at the time the policy is being established, that flood damage from swollen rivers is not covered. For some insurers it's in their script THREE times. Then it's all covered in detail in the Product Disclosure Statement that is received by the client, AND there's a 14 day cooling off period (and no I'm not involved in the insurance industry). Yet people still exclaim "BUT YOU DIDN'T TELL ME!!!!!" The fact is they didn't want to pay the higher premium through other insurers who do cover flood damage then they whine when it bites them. An all-too-familiar scenario.

People don't want to be responsible for their own actions, and as our retarded governments introduce more and more asinine laws to replace common sense, that situation will only get worse.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: The difference
by TechGeek on Wed 26th Jan 2011 01:25 in reply to "RE[2]: The difference"
TechGeek Member since:
2006-01-14

I dont think its the case of people not reading the EULAs as much as it is that the EULA is not being honored. Thats why this made it to court. People being whiny would have been thrown out before now.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: The difference
by avgalen on Wed 26th Jan 2011 04:45 in reply to "RE[2]: The difference"
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23


It's really got nothing to do with market share. See the earlier post, Apple are selling a single product. Apple sell the Mac specifically to run OSX, which Apple also produce, and therefore it's sold as a single unified product. The fact that others have written OS's that will run on the Mac is immaterial because the Mac isn't sold as generic hardware - it's sold as hardware that runs Mac OSX. PC vendors choose to bundle Windows with their generic hardware and the whole PC industry has played the "oh but over here you have more choice" card for years - you can't have it both ways.


Did you ever hear of BootCamp, written and actively marketed by Apple? You are right, you can't have it both ways! So why did you try it?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: The difference
by umccullough on Tue 25th Jan 2011 22:51 in reply to "RE: The difference"
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

I don't see why you think Apple shouldn't have to play by the same rules as Microsoft. Just because they have a smaller market share on the desktop market doesn't mean they don't have to play by the same rules. Also please keep in mind that Apple is just as big as Microsoft. They both make billions of dollars every year.


Yeah! I'm gonna call Sansa and Linksys and ask them to refund me the money for the Sansa and Linksys firmwares that I have replaced with rockbox and dd-wrt respectively... the original firmware on both was junk, and I bought them intending to replace them as such.

But really: The reason you can request a refund for Windows is because Microsoft specifically states that you should in their EULA if you do not agree to it.

Edited 2011-01-25 22:52 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[3]: The difference
by Bobthearch on Wed 26th Jan 2011 03:16 in reply to "RE[2]: The difference"
Bobthearch Member since:
2006-01-27

LOL, I want a refund for the last six motherboards that included onboard sound that I never use, didn't want, and had no choice.

And I can't see why so many people buy Windows-installed computers if they don't really want Windows. There are options, even in laptops, for no-OS or Linux computers.

But yeah, if Microsoft says they'll give refunds then there's no reason why they shouldn't. And it should be prompt and simple.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: The difference
by re_re on Wed 26th Jan 2011 05:51 in reply to "RE: The difference"
re_re Member since:
2005-07-06

metalf8801
Member since:
2010-03-22

"I don't see why you think Apple shouldn't have to play by the same rules as Microsoft. Just because they have a smaller market share on the desktop market doesn't mean they don't have to play by the same rules. Also please keep in mind that Apple is just as big as Microsoft. They both make billions of dollars every year."

It very much has to do with the marketing model, Apple is a hardware company and the end product (both hardware and software) is considered to be one product. Microsoft Windows is essentially third party software installed on genaric machines.

That being the case, I understand the argument for refunds for people who do not want Windows on their machine, however, I think it is pretty shady to require (require being the key word) a company to offer a refund on a perfectly working product that they knowingly and intentionally purchased.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: The difference
by gnemmi on Wed 26th Jan 2011 06:49 in reply to "RE[2]: The difference"
gnemmi Member since:
2006-08-17

It ain´t shady at all as long as the EULA states that you have the right to ask for a refund if you do not accept the terms of said EULA ...

The thing is that even if you do buy a computer knowing it has a pre-installed version of Microsoft Windows *, you still don´t know what the terms of it´s EULA are ... and theres when the "is it more beneficila for me to accept the terms of this EULA or will I do better if I don´t?" question kicks in .. if you don´t, well ... the same EULA states that you have a legal right to get a refund for the price of the software in question.

The "knowingly and intentionally" factor only affects the features of the product ... not the terms of the EULA, which of course, you don´t know in advanced ...

Now ... go get´em tigger ;)

Edited 2011-01-26 06:53 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 6