Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 27th Jan 2011 22:28 UTC
Legal "Sony has won its request for a temporary restraining order in its PS3 jailbreak case against Geohot and fail0verflow, despite a jurisdictional technicality. At the same time, the judge at the US District Court for the Northern District of California has allowed Sony to keep the lawsuit in San Francisco. The restraining order forbids the jailbreak team from distributing or linking the jailbreak procedure, or encouraging others to jailbreak or hack their PS3 or PSN. They've also been ordered to turn over any computers or storage media used to create the jailbreak to Sony's lawyers." Land of the free fail.
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This is ludicrous!
by cmost on Thu 27th Jan 2011 23:42 UTC in reply to "VIC-20..."
cmost
Member since:
2006-07-16

What!?!?!? Did I wake up in Communist Russia this morning and not realize it? This action by Sony and these "judges" is futile. Anyone with half a brain knows this. This lawsuit will not stop people like GeoHot from hacking their hardware; rather it will merely incite ever more hackers to be even bolder and more brazen with doing whatever they want with HARDWARE THEY OWN!! If I were a current "owner" of a PS3 (or any Sony product for that matter) I'd box the piece of junk up and send it to Sony's headquarters with a letter demanding all or most of my money back since it is Sony and not I who obviously owns the hardware. In fact, I'd do the same with all of my old, broken Sony hardware too: televisions, radios, CD players etc... after all, Sony owns them, let them pay to dispose of them.

Reply Parent Score: 12

RE: This is ludicrous!
by sagum on Fri 28th Jan 2011 01:54 in reply to "This is ludicrous!"
sagum Member since:
2006-01-23

Send them (Sony) letters demaning storage fees to be paid to you for their old eleltronic goods at your home/work place.

Anyone know the going rate for long term storage these days?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: This is ludicrous!
by Soulbender on Fri 28th Jan 2011 04:25 in reply to "This is ludicrous!"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Communist russia, capitalist usa..who can tell the difference? They just use different names for the same kind of crooks.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: This is ludicrous!
by WereCatf on Fri 28th Jan 2011 04:48 in reply to "This is ludicrous!"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

This action by Sony and these "judges" is futile. Anyone with half a brain knows this. This lawsuit will not stop people like GeoHot from hacking their hardware

Indeed. I was just thinking to myself that this is really like throwing pure gasoline in an open fire and hoping it'll douse the flames: now people will continue hacking and cracking Sony's stuff just in spite of them, quite the reverse Sony wanted.

Oh well, Sony as a company really sucks nowadays and you can bet that they'll continue to make themselves look like even bigger asshats than before.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE: This is ludicrous!
by viton on Fri 28th Jan 2011 09:32 in reply to "This is ludicrous!"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

doing whatever they want with HARDWARE THEY OWN!!

You own hardware, but you do not own the PSN.
There are a lot of things that depends on console security - paid content distribution / trophies / multiplayer / game modification protection.
Now all that things are lost.
So anyone can pirate software, use trophies unlockers (automatically drawing the system almost useless), cheat in multiplayer, etc
So honest people, who bought games/content, will suffer from it.
GeoHot has accepted license what he will not reverse engineer the thing. And that can lead to certain consequences.

So if for example somebody makes the keys from your home and give it to some random thief. I guess you will be very glad and make that person your best friend.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: This is ludicrous!
by Soulbender on Fri 28th Jan 2011 10:48 in reply to "RE: This is ludicrous!"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

So honest people, who bought games/content, will suffer from it


I guess they should complain to Sony about hiring complete nincompoops to design the security.

GeoHot has accepted license what he will not reverse engineer the thing. And that can lead to certain consequences.


Bullshit. Just because it's in the shrinkwrap license does not mean it's valid by contract law. If he bought it he can do whatever he wants with it. Well, at least that's the rule in sane countries.
Funny how Sony gets away scott-free even when their design is fundamentally flawed.

So if for example somebody makes the keys from your home and give it to some random thief. I guess you will be very glad and make that person your best friend.


No but if you're stupid enough to hide your keys under the doormat it's your own fault.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[2]: This is ludicrous!
by somebody on Fri 28th Jan 2011 16:26 in reply to "RE: This is ludicrous!"
somebody Member since:
2005-07-07

if you'd own ps3, you'd know that you don't need to sign to psn to use it. and with that they can only specify your network conducting rules

i'm simply not buying one single sony product, not because i wouldn't want, because i can't. it seems ps3 i bought is just on loan from sony

and keys analogy is flawed. how happy would you be if i sold you house, retain one set of keys and give them to some random thief?

Edited 2011-01-28 16:28 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: This is ludicrous!
by UltraZelda64 on Fri 28th Jan 2011 21:05 in reply to "RE: This is ludicrous!"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

So if for example somebody makes the keys from your home and give it to some random thief. I guess you will be very glad and make that person your best friend.

Ever hear of a bump key? They can open just about any lock, and can easily be made even by yourself if you wanted with just about any spare or old/unused standard-sized key and a cheap, specialized metal file. Not to mention, if you have a lot of keys to deal with with your own property, they'd probably be a hell of a lot more convenient replacing them all with... one key. You'd just need something to "bump" it with.

YouTube hosts plenty of videos demonstrating just how easy it is to make and use bump keys. Physical locks, in reality, are no more secure against attacks than Sony's PS3 root key. Hell, all a burgler needs to do is find a big enough rock somewhere (hint: they're everywhere) to throw at a window and bypass the door (including lock) entirely. If that for some reason can't be done, other objects--including hands and feet--could be used to strike against the glass.

So really, bad example: standard locks can be broken just as well as cryptographic keys can be cracked. Nothing's really "secure" and all locks do is provide you with a sense of security by making it just a bit harder to open a door. Nothing more. You could say it's the McAfee or Norton for physical doors; a false sense of security.

Edited 2011-01-28 21:08 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: This is ludicrous!
by FunkyELF on Fri 28th Jan 2011 21:29 in reply to "RE: This is ludicrous!"
FunkyELF Member since:
2006-07-26

"doing whatever they want with HARDWARE THEY OWN!!

You own hardware, but you do not own the PSN.
There are a lot of things that depends on console security - paid content distribution / trophies / multiplayer / game modification protection.
Now all that things are lost.
So anyone can pirate software, use trophies unlockers (automatically drawing the system almost useless), cheat in multiplayer, etc
So honest people, who bought games/content, will suffer from it.
GeoHot has accepted license what he will not reverse engineer the thing. And that can lead to certain consequences.

So if for example somebody makes the keys from your home and give it to some random thief. I guess you will be very glad and make that person your best friend.
"

Most of what you say is very true.
I respect Sony's wishes to maintain the integrity of their network but remember why this all happened in the first place.

This happened when Sony took away the ability to run Linux. That ability was an advertised feature of the console and the reason why a lot of the hackers bought the thing in the first place.

It just so happens that hoops to jump through to get Linux running again are the same hoops needed for piracy and cheating.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: This is ludicrous!
by fran on Fri 28th Jan 2011 17:04 in reply to "This is ludicrous!"
fran Member since:
2010-08-06

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/first-sale-doctrine/
Excerpt form the wired article:
"The first-sale doctrine of 1909, in its current form, allows the “owner of a particular copy” of a copyrighted work to sell or dispose of his copy without the copyright owner’s authorization. “The first sale doctrine does not apply to a person who possesses a copy of the copyrighted work without owning it, such as a licensee,” the court ruled."

It's all in those last sentence. It has to do with difference in licensee rights
Most software you dont license to resell, modify ect, you only buy the right of usage.
I noticed this in the terms of condition of most software. Dont modify is among them.

PS3 Terms of use
http://www.ps3news.com/forums/playstation-3-news/sonys-ps3-system-s...

Part of the PS3 license agreement

"2. RESTRICTIONS
You may not lease, rent, sublicense, publish, modify, adapt, or translate any portion of the System Software. To the fullest extent permitted by law, you may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the System Software, or create any derivative works, or otherwise attempt to create System Software source code from its object code. You may not (i) use any unauthorized, illegal, counterfeit, or modified hardware or software in connection with the System Software, including use of tools to bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, or authentication mechanism for the PS3™ system; (ii) violate any laws, regulations or statutes, or rights of SCE, its affiliated companies, or third parties in connection with your access to or use of the System Software, including the access, use, or distribution of any software or hardware that you know or should have known to be infringing or pirated; (iii) use any hardware or software to cause the System Software to accept or use unauthorized, illegal, or pirated software or hardware; (iv) obtain the System Software in any manner other than through SCE's authorized distribution methods; or (v) exploit the System Software in any manner other than to use it in your PS3™ system in accordance with the accompanying documentation and with authorized software or hardware, including use of the System Software to design, develop, update, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware for use in connection with the PS3™ system for any reason. Without limiting the scope of SCE's remedies, any violation of these restrictions will void the PS3™ system's warranty and affect your ability to obtain warranty services and repair services from SCE or its affiliated companies."

I'm not saying that i'm in principle against what Geohot did. Enabling "other os" function.
The removal of the other os ability from Sony in my eyes is also a sort of contravention of sales agreement.

Norway consumer's council for instance is looking into this.
http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/01/27/claims.some.updates.a...

It's unfortunate and we dont like it, but as it stand it's the way it is.
When you buy certain things you dont actually "own" it in the true sense of the word.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: This is ludicrous!
by Neolander on Sun 30th Jan 2011 14:17 in reply to "RE: This is ludicrous!"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

When you buy certain things you dont actually "own" it in the true sense of the word.

When I buy software in a shop, the vendor doesn't ask me to agree with the EULA or show me said EULA before taking my money.

I discover the EULA when I get back home and put the CD/DVD in my drive. If, at this point, I refuse to accept the EULA, the shop won't take my copy of the software and give me my money back.

Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, EULAs are invalid for every software that is sold in a shop ;)

Edited 2011-01-30 14:21 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2