Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 4th Apr 2011 22:59 UTC
Windows And yes, the stream of controlled Windows 8 leaks continues. This time around, Thurrot and Rivera have published a number of screenshots from Windows 8's brand-new tablet user interface, and surprise surprise, its built on Metro, the same design language that underpins Windows Phone 7. Windows 8 will also include its own PDF reader, Modern Reader, which also happens to be the first application packaged in Microsoft's new AppX format. Update: Long Zheng has some technical details on AppX, including this little tidbit: "The extensive list of properties signifies the comprehensive scope of this system to be the ideal deployment strategy for 'applications', in all essence of the word. In fact, the AppX format is universal enough so it appears to work for everything from native Win32 applications to framework-based applications and even *gasp* web applications. Games are also supported."
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XPS dead?
by sdhays on Tue 5th Apr 2011 03:23 UTC
sdhays
Member since:
2007-03-13

I hope that this means that M$ has decided that, no, XPS will not be taking the world by storm and that if we're going to use a standard document description format, we're going to use the one that has healthy support everywhere, not just in Windoze Vista/7.

Why does Microsoft always go on binges? 10 years after XML is introduced, "all of our formats must be XML", never mind that they're shoddily implemented and don't conform to their own blasted standard (what was the point?). The ribbon user interface is written to de-crappify M$ Office, and now *everything* must have a ribbon. So for Windows 8, everything's going to be Metro-ified. As others have said before, good design for desktop use does not equal good design for mobile usage. I even think that Apple specifically doesn't provide the same UI libraries in iOS because they want to force developers to develop for the target platform. And, as a developer, I have to say, more power to them. The people holding the purse strings seldom give a crap about design until it's far too late, so forcing good design is very welcome.

Of course, maybe Silverlight truly is the be all and end all of programming toolkits and in a few years, we'll all wonder what all the other crap was about. I won't be holding my breath, though.

Reply Score: 3

RE: XPS dead?
by avgalen on Tue 5th Apr 2011 04:18 in reply to "XPS dead?"
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

I agree that XPS should never have been born

I disagree that switching to XML as the default fileformat in Office is a bad idea. It made filesizes a lot smaller and interoperability a lot easier

and for a loooooong time (still?) the MSXML libraries were (are?) considered the fastest and most standard compliant libraries for parsing xml

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: XPS dead?
by pandronic on Tue 5th Apr 2011 05:31 in reply to "RE: XPS dead?"
pandronic Member since:
2006-05-18

I really like XPS and I use it inside our office to pass documents around. You can easily install an XPS printer on XP and on Win 7 it's already installed. The viewer is not bloated and integrates nicely with Windows.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: XPS dead?
by bert64 on Tue 5th Apr 2011 09:17 in reply to "RE: XPS dead?"
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

I agree that XPS should never have been born

I disagree that switching to XML as the default fileformat in Office is a bad idea. It made filesizes a lot smaller and interoperability a lot easier

and for a loooooong time (still?) the MSXML libraries were (are?) considered the fastest and most standard compliant libraries for parsing xml


Switching to XML did not make the filesizes smaller, in fact it made them bigger... The apparent reduction in size is due to the files being compressed.

XPS should never have existed, but neither should OOXML... Both of which are predated by existing widely standardised and superior formats.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: XPS dead?
by nt_jerkface on Tue 5th Apr 2011 07:07 in reply to "XPS dead?"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

MS Office wouldn't help put the $ in MS if OpenOffice didn't feel so dated in comparison.

The public doesn't mind spending a buck twenty if it means they don't have to stare at software that looks like it is from 1998.

I would love to see MS Office taken down to $50 but that will only happen when it gets some real competition.

Windows Server Web Edition exists because of competition from Linux. MS Office mainly competes with older versions of itself.

Edited 2011-04-05 07:12 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: XPS dead?
by flanque on Tue 5th Apr 2011 11:50 in reply to "RE: XPS dead?"
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

MS Office mainly competes with older versions of itself.

That's very true.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: XPS dead?
by TemporalBeing on Tue 5th Apr 2011 14:33 in reply to "RE: XPS dead?"
TemporalBeing Member since:
2007-08-22

MS Office wouldn't help put the $ in MS if OpenOffice didn't feel so dated in comparison.


MS puts money where MS wants to put money - which is nearly any where they can put a competitor out of business, or at least severely harm a competitor. Partners are not excluded from the harm, if they are doing business in an area where MS wants to go.

So no matter how good OpenOffice may ever be, MS will still dump money into Office - even if they have entirely lost the market. That's just how MS operates.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: XPS dead?
by Lennie on Tue 5th Apr 2011 09:11 in reply to "XPS dead?"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

I thought Silverlight was pretty much pronounced dead by Microsoft for anything desktop-like other than DRM-audio/video:

http://www.osnews.com/story/23966/Microsoft_Changes_Silverlight_Str...

http://www.osnews.com/story/23992/Silverlight_HTML5_and_Microsoft_s...

Or that is only true for the web ?

Edited 2011-04-05 09:23 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: XPS dead?
by vivainio on Tue 5th Apr 2011 09:32 in reply to "RE: XPS dead?"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26



The article says:

"It seems like the pieces of the puzzle are all falling into place: Windows NT everywhere, Silverlight/.Net everywhere."

Microsoft is definitely forcing silverlight / wpf / xaml on you during windows 8 cycle.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: XPS dead?
by nt_jerkface on Tue 5th Apr 2011 15:55 in reply to "RE: XPS dead?"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Silverlight was never pushed for desktop use. It was designed as a richer alternative to Flash.

Don't spend too much time reading Peter Bright articles since he doesn't know half of what he pretends to. He did some Win32 programming years ago and for some reason he feels that qualifies him to write about .NET and other technologies that he doesn't have experience with.

Silverlight has had the same problem as HTML5 which is a smaller install base when compared to Flash. Corporations have found Silverlight useful for intranet/LOB applications but it hasn't taken off in the consumer sphere.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: XPS dead?
by kaiwai on Tue 5th Apr 2011 10:56 in reply to "XPS dead?"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

But XPS was more than just a "PDF Alternative" given that the scope was to be a language that was universal for all printers as to replace the current crop of GDI based printers (aka Winprinters) and without the royalty hassles associated with Postscript. The problem with it is that Microsoft never went about transforming it from a Windows/Microsoft only technology into something present on Mac and Windows so as a consequence even though it was open it was only implemented on one platform

As for the Office OpenXML, it all came back to Microsoft hell bent on having round trip perfect conversion when what they should have done was create was a one way conversion with plugins for Office 2003 when Office 2007 was first released. A simple XML format was ultimately bloated into epic proportions because of this hell bent fetish of backwards compatibility at all costs resulting in a bloated specification that even Microsoft struggles to conform to.

As for Silverlight, it is about the only shining star in the whole fiasco; its a great alternative to Adobe Air which will hopefully pay dividends when it comes to development on Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: XPS dead?
by TemporalBeing on Tue 5th Apr 2011 15:18 in reply to "RE: XPS dead?"
TemporalBeing Member since:
2007-08-22

But XPS was more than just a "PDF Alternative" given that the scope was to be a language that was universal for all printers as to replace the current crop of GDI based printers (aka Winprinters) and without the royalty hassles associated with Postscript. The problem with it is that Microsoft never went about transforming it from a Windows/Microsoft only technology into something present on Mac and Windows so as a consequence even though it was open it was only implemented on one platform


Many printers interop directly with PDFs too, especially when you get into the commercial grade, print-shop level printers, or systems like what is used by various publishing houses. Microsoft was trying to displace PDF at that level; but they like PDF too much and for good reason - it was specifically designed for them.

And since when has Microsoft ever made anything they did operate on more than just the Windows platform? Even MS Office for Mac is dramatically different than any other version of MS Office, including file format support.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: XPS dead?
by modmans2ndcoming on Wed 6th Apr 2011 00:50 in reply to "XPS dead?"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

decrapify?

because no one else uses the office 2000 UI for a office productivity applications?

Reply Parent Score: 2