Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 19th May 2011 18:59 UTC, submitted by fran
Gnome Something's - once again - brewing within the GNOME project. While a mere suggestion for now, and by no means any form of official policy, influential voices within the GNOME project are arguing that GNOME should become a full-fledged Linux-based operating system, and that the desktop environment should drop support for other operating systems such as Solaris and the BSDs. I have a feeling this isn't going to go down well with many of our readers.
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RE[6]: Sad but inevitable
by toast88 on Sat 21st May 2011 11:10 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Sad but inevitable"
toast88
Member since:
2009-09-23

"With FreeBSD still being stuck to sysinstall as their installers


You probably havent heard about sysinstall replacement called bsdinstall, here have a read:
http://wiki.freebsd.org/BSDInstall
"

No, I haven't. But from the link you provided it seems that bsdinstall is just supposed to be an intermediate solution. It's surely an improvement, but does it compare with the modern installers like debian-installer or anaconda provided on Linux?

Is it already used by default when I download and install a current stable release of FreeBSD? We're not talking about stuff which is still in the making but actually being used ;) .

"CVS as their primary revision control system, I am not surprised that they are so fiercely fighting any progress.

FreeBSD uses SVN for development since 2008.
"

Which isn't really an improvement over CVS for a large scale project like FreeBSD. I think most developers agree, that for really large projects which have many branches in the sources and lots of developers, a distributed RCS like git is a much better choice.

Adrian

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: Sad but inevitable
by vermaden on Sat 21st May 2011 12:39 in reply to "RE[6]: Sad but inevitable"
vermaden Member since:
2006-11-18

No, I haven't. But from the link you provided it seems that bsdinstall is just supposed to be an intermediate solution. It's surely an improvement, but does it compare with the modern installers like debian-installer or anaconda provided on Linux?


Yes, its temporary sollution, there is work in progres to provide 'fully capable' installer.

Talking 'modern installer' I assume that You want a graphical (QT/GTK) installer that a definite newbie will be able to click-out the install process, there is also such installer for FreeBSD, the PC-BSD installer (http://pcbsd.org) written in QT adn it alows You to install PC-BSD and if You do not need all preconfigured stuff, it also allows You to install PLAIN FREEBSD version.

The PC-BSD installer uses pc-sysinstall as a backend (which is set of created POSIX sh(1) shell scripts) and frontend is in QT, the 'complete' goal of text/curses based FreeBSD installer is to use that backend for the installer.

Is it already used by default when I download and install a current stable release of FreeBSD? We're not talking about stuff which is still in the making but actually being used ;) .

Its already in snapshot builds for the 9-CURRENT FreeBSD, the installer is planend for 9.0-RELEASE which will happen somewhere between 2011/06 and 2011/09 probably.

Which isn't really an improvement over CVS for a large scale project like FreeBSD. I think most developers agree, that for really large projects which have many branches in the sources and lots of developers, a distributed RCS like git is a much better choice.

I would like to comment on that, but I am not a developer, the 'biggest' things that I write are mostly shell scripts or wrappers so I do not have ANY experience with any large scale code repository.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[8]: Sad but inevitable
by toast88 on Sat 21st May 2011 22:28 in reply to "RE[7]: Sad but inevitable"
toast88 Member since:
2009-09-23

Talking 'modern installer' I assume that You want a graphical (QT/GTK) installer that a definite newbie will be able to click-out the install process, there is also such installer for FreeBSD, the PC-BSD installer (http://pcbsd.org) written in QT adn it alows You to install PC-BSD and if You do not need all preconfigured stuff, it also allows You to install PLAIN FREEBSD version.


No, it's not actually the graphical UI which make debian-installer/anaconda more comfortable but the control logic and the UI design in general. I do not have any problems with text-based installers, in fact, I prefer these.

I just always felt that sysinstall was quite old and quite cumbersome to use. Sure, if you have used it for a while, you will get used to it. But it definitely deserved an overhaul ;) .

The PC-BSD installer uses pc-sysinstall as a backend (which is set of created POSIX sh(1) shell scripts) and frontend is in QT, the 'complete' goal of text/curses based FreeBSD installer is to use that backend for the installer.


A very similar approach to the one used in debian-installer/anaconda. In fact, you can virtually use these installers in the same way on the text console as you would use them using a Qt/gtk interface.

Its already in snapshot builds for the 9-CURRENT FreeBSD, the installer is planend for 9.0-RELEASE which will happen somewhere between 2011/06 and 2011/09 probably.


Sounds promising. I will definitely give it a try once it's released!

I would like to comment on that, but I am not a developer, the 'biggest' things that I write are mostly shell scripts or wrappers so I do not have ANY experience with any large scale code repository.


Well, being a hobbyist FOSS developer with my own project and having worked as an administrator on a Linux network at a university as a student's job, I have used several RCSs and I felt RCS/CVS the most awkward to use and git to be just the easiest and most comfortable RCS. Last but not least, git is incredibly fast which is really a big advantage when working on large projects ;) .

Adrian

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: Sad but inevitable
by pfgbsd on Sat 21st May 2011 17:50 in reply to "RE[6]: Sad but inevitable"
pfgbsd Member since:
2011-03-12



No, I haven't. But from the link you provided it seems that bsdinstall is just supposed to be an intermediate solution. It's surely an improvement, but does it compare with the modern installers like debian-installer or anaconda provided on Linux?


As someone noted, PC-BSD has a very cool installer but bsdinstall has other objectives: we still want to have something that can be installed using a serial console and that will work on non PC-platforms.

"
FreeBSD uses SVN for development since 2008.


Which isn't really an improvement over CVS for a large scale project like FreeBSD. I think most developers agree, that for really large projects which have many branches in the sources and lots of developers, a distributed RCS like git is a much better choice.
" [/q]

Well it's a matter of developer's choice: FreeBSD is developed in a more centralized manner than other projects, and even before SVN, FreeBSD was using a combination of CVS and perforce. I do recall linux didn't have any RCS for many years: that was a lesson they learned from the BSDs (and indirectly from SCO).

Reply Parent Score: 2