Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 5th Oct 2011 20:36 UTC, submitted by zizban
BeOS & Derivatives Oh gosh, finally news that's got nothing to do with patents or smartphones or the comparing of male sexual organs. Haiku news! Michael Lotz has added preliminary support for WPA to Haiku, taking the first steps towards making the Haiku wireless stack a lot more useful.
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RE[5]: Comment by peteo
by Morgan on Thu 6th Oct 2011 10:15 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by peteo"
Morgan
Member since:
2005-06-29

I think you misunderstood me. The definition of subjective in this context means on a per-user basis, i.e. what the subject (you or I) think about it. For some people, usability means a command line and nothing more. For others, a minimalist GUI like Ratpoison addresses their exact needs regarding productivity. Still others require the OS to practically read their minds and move the mouse for them before they would consider it productive and useful. And there's a huge spectrum in the middle of all of that, where I think the various mainstream Linux interfaces, Windows, and OSes like Haiku fall.

And you're right: For me right now Haiku is not usable at all on my netbook. But it runs just fine on my desktop, and for the vast majority of what I use a computer for it serves my needs quite well. I don't do everything in it of course, but that's the same for Linux and Windows too.

So I stand behind my use of the word "subjective" in this context; for me it's a very productive OS, alpha stage be damned, for you and others it may not be. That's exactly what makes it subjective.

One more thing, and this is not a personal attack but an observation: Your analogy is grossly flawed. You may as well be comparing a remote control car to a jumbo jet. A Tamagotchi is an acutely simple game, that will never be more than a game. A Palm device is a pocketable computer designed for productivity, that coincidentally is more than able to emulate that Tamagotchi game. Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to be intentionally slighting Haiku by calling it a toy, instead of correctly stating that it is an alpha-quality (read: buggy as hell) operating system. If Haiku were a "toy OS" as you stated, it wouldn't have any productivity functions at all.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by peteo
by Neolander on Thu 6th Oct 2011 13:27 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by peteo"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

I would not call Haiku good for everyday use in its current state (ie, it wouldn't replace Windows or a Linux distro for me), but I second your statement that "toy OS" is about artificial limitations. This expression could be used against something totally consumption-oriented like iOS, but not against an incomplete productivity OS like Haiku.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Comment by peteo
by No it isnt on Thu 6th Oct 2011 17:40 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by peteo"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

There's no analogy at play, so your I can't really take offence at your presumed observation. The Tamagotchi is a computer with severely limited use value, yet it's easy enough to interface with. I'm comparing one computer to another. Tamagotchi to Haiku, Palm to Linux. Unfair? Not quite: for most people using Haiku, Haiku is not the means to something else (productivity) but an end in itself (developing Haiku). That's pretty much the definition of playing. Or making art for that matter. So a toy. I don't see it as a pure negative, and I believe I used the words "still" and "mainly", "still mainly a toy".

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by peteo
by Morgan on Thu 6th Oct 2011 18:15 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by peteo"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

It's an analogy, look up the definition of the word.

Regardless, I still see it as flawed. Haiku's lack of usability at this point is solely due to its alpha state; the goal is and always has been to be a full fledged and productive operating system. That can never be said of your Tamagotchi; its sole intent is and always was to be a toy.

By your reasoning, all operating systems in existence are toys, as at some point in their lives they were alpha quality and barely usable by the general public. Would you consider OS X to be nothing but a toy? It is in fact quite a powerful and complete OS, though its first public release was hardly stable enough for everyday computing.

As for Haiku being "an end in itself" regarding its production state, again you're comparing an alpha state to fully released OSes. Coincidentally, you do realize that even those released operating systems go through active development cycles, wherein the current version of the OS is host to development? That's simply how it's done, certainly not an indication that an OS is flawed.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by peteo
by zima on Mon 10th Oct 2011 21:13 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by peteo"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

The definition of subjective in this context means on a per-user basis, i.e. what the subject (you or I) think about it. For some people, usability means a command line and nothing more. For others, a minimalist GUI like Ratpoison addresses their exact needs regarding productivity.

The context was delineated by the quote you addressed:
and - let's face it - Haiku is NOT currently more useful than Linux on the desktop.


"The desktop" seems to usually mean something fairly specific. Roughly: the typical stuff done by average users. CLI or Ratpoison-likes fall outside of this - people who insist on such UIs for ~desktop usage are a statistically insignificant niche (heck, Haiku in its current state is more suitable for "the desktop" than those two, despite quite clearly being "NOT currently more useful than Linux" there), there's nothing subjective about it.

Edited 2011-10-10 21:14 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2