Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 29th Apr 2012 12:22 UTC
Apple "Apple, the world's most profitable technology company, doesn't design iPhones here. It doesn't run AppleCare customer service from this city. And it doesn't manufacture MacBooks or iPads anywhere nearby. Yet, with a handful of employees in a small office here in Reno, Apple has done something central to its corporate strategy: it has avoided millions of dollars in taxes in California and 20 other states." Sure, this is all legal for companies to do (and Apple obviously isn't alone) but it does show you how much sense of morality companies have. Answer: none. But hey, it's legal, and the law is never wrong, right?
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But taxation is theft
by Jesuspower on Sun 29th Apr 2012 12:50 UTC
Jesuspower
Member since:
2006-01-28

Avoiding taxes is like avoiding a thief. Neither is wrong, though in some cases either could be stupid (which is why I pay taxes: I don't want to die. Seriously. You know America is screwed up.).

Apple found a way to do this. Good for them. They have avoided getting stolen from. Now, you go find a way to do this, and don't wish your misery on others who have less of it. ;)

Reply Score: -1

Tax is not theft
by LeeZH on Sun 29th Apr 2012 13:48 in reply to "But taxation is theft"
LeeZH Member since:
2010-10-21

Fine, don't pay tax. While you're at it. Don't use the public roads. Blindfold yourself at night whenever you're near a street lamp. Tell the police to not help you if you're robbed. Dial 911 if you're injured? Forget that. You'll also need to stockpile on candles because electric power lines are government property.

It costs money to keep a country afloat. If you live in a country it's your responsibility to contribute your part to make it so.

Reply Parent Score: 5

v RE: Tax is not theft
by Jesuspower on Sun 29th Apr 2012 13:57 in reply to "Tax is not theft"
RE: Tax is not theft
by looncraz on Sun 29th Apr 2012 16:20 in reply to "Tax is not theft"
looncraz Member since:
2005-07-24

Fine, don't pay tax. While you're at it. Don't use the public roads. Blindfold yourself at night whenever you're near a street lamp. Tell the police to not help you if you're robbed. Dial 911 if you're injured? Forget that. You'll also need to stockpile on candles because electric power lines are government property.

It costs money to keep a country afloat. If you live in a country it's your responsibility to contribute your part to make it so.



In the U.S., ALL of that comes from local taxes.

Federal taxes are used for war, largely poorly designed or intended 'studies', placating to lobbyists, oversight departments that perform poorly, interstate highways, the IRS itself, CIA, FBI, DEA, ATF, NSA, DOE, and much much more.

Taxes for medicare & social security are collected "separate" from income taxes, so I didn't include those.

Most of what the federal government does should be left at the federal level, but everything they do costs far far too much. And the DEA should simply be abandoned, the DOE should be destroy and made into a committee of education leaders from each state / represented territory.

The IRS should be destroyed by following the constitution and having the federal government collect its funds from the states, and have those states determine how to get that money from its people.

That is how it is suppose to work. Otherwise, work out a system for a federal sales tax, and abolish the IRS. Problem is, while a sales tax is more efficient (see Texas) and is entirely fair (critical items, like food and water, are not taxed) it is also too difficult to use as a source of corruption by politicians. You can't easily create tax credits to hide giveaways so people buy something from the lobbyist that gave you the most money or the best gifts...

The lower degree of corruption in a sales-tax system is precisely why the government will never do it.

You would still tax business profits & corporate profits - at much lower levels, with very few avenues of escape.

We should be trying to put CPAs and tax companies out of business...(sorry, but that's progress...)

--The loon

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Tax is not theft
by UltraZelda64 on Mon 30th Apr 2012 00:40 in reply to "Tax is not theft"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

I don't know about your area, but here, the public roads are all f***ed. They're not taken care of properly. They're pothole-ridden. The potholes get "patched", then the patches break down and then need to be patched, then the patches over patches need to be patched. It's a never-ending cycle until the whole damn road is just something you don't want to drive on. The roads get so bad and stay that way for extended periods of time, it's not even funny. The entire damn road needs redone, and just when you might think they're getting serious about doing the right thing, they do little stretches here and there, leaving shittiness in between. It's been horrible for years before they finally got off their asses and started spending money on "real" road repairs, and there are are still dozens of bad roads.

The government is no good at spending our tax dollars where it should be. Instead, they just fork over enormous amounts of money in their ridiculous "war on drugs" and "war on terrorism" and other stupid shit like recycling the most pointless things (paper, plastic, etc.). And before you bitch, "but recycling is good!" I do recycle things that are worthwhile: metals, especially aluminum (which I get a lot of in the form of cans). Go to YouTube and look up "penn and teller bullshit recycling" and watch all three parts of the 30-minute episode before you go on your "going green" bullshit.

But as someone pointed out above, the roads are taken care of by the local governments, not the federal. So basically, local or federal, it doesn't matter which part of the government it is... they all burn tax money on ridiculous shit. City, state, federal--you name it.

Edited 2012-04-30 00:57 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: But taxation is theft
by rycamor on Sun 29th Apr 2012 14:45 in reply to "But taxation is theft"
rycamor Member since:
2005-07-18

Hehe... of course jesuspower's post would get moderated down by all the self-righteous believers in authority.

While I believe that some taxation is necessary (although not on income), it is obvious that what we have now has been blown completely out of proportion. The sum total of government services that we actually rely on in daily life almost all occur in local and state government, which taxes us at a minor percentage compared to the greedy beast that is our central Federal government. And in fact, even local government is at least 90% waste and unneeded "services".

No my friends, your self-righteously-paid taxes mostly go towards supporting a corrupt monetary system, foreign wars, failed banks and investment companies, and paying for a completely counterproductive bureaucracy that eventually wants to dictate everything in your life, from how much water your toilet holds to what kind of food you should be allowed to consume (Google "raw milk raids').

Time to stop defending what is clearly an out-of-control bully. I cheer every time I hear about some company or individual who has managed to avoid supporting the beast.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: But taxation is theft
by LeeZH on Sun 29th Apr 2012 15:07 in reply to "RE: But taxation is theft"
LeeZH Member since:
2010-10-21

Finally, a good argument. If you checked the other portion of this thread you'll know why I am so relieved by this post.

Yes, I agree that the US government has been diverting tax money to the wrong areas, but that means it is up to the US citizens to change the government's ways, not avoid taxes.

Starving a bully government may mean there would be less money for pointless wars, but it would also mean less money for the other important areas that are under-funded, like relieving foreign oil dependence, or improving the health-care so that poor people can afford them, or improving the education system so that people like Jesuspower would actually make good arguments.

Change the government, that's the answer.

Edited 2012-04-29 15:09 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: But taxation is theft
by looncraz on Sun 29th Apr 2012 16:24 in reply to "RE: But taxation is theft"
looncraz Member since:
2005-07-24

Amen!

Reply Parent Score: 2