Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 2nd Aug 2012 16:48 UTC, submitted by aargh
Games From Valve's Linux blog: "That the Linux version runs faster than the Windows version (270.6) seems a little counter-intuitive, given the greater amount of time we have spent on the Windows version. However, it does speak to the underlying efficiency of the kernel and OpenGL." If it wasn't obvious before, it should be now: Valve has started its marketing campaign for Linux. With the Windows platform in the process of closing itself off, Valve has to look to greener pastures. This is all to motive third parties to get their stuff ready for a possible Linux-powered 'Steambox' - not a console, but a set of generic PC specifications. Remember: the Xbox is the only machine tied to DirectX - OpenGL runs everywhere else, including Windows (the PS3 is an oddball, and has a sort-of Sony-specific FrankenOpenGL). OpenGL simply makes more sense for developers, and now Valve is working very closely with Nvidia, AMD, and Intel to optimise their Linux drivers. Do the math, people.
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delta0.delta0
Member since:
2010-06-01

Talk about moving goal posts,

What do you think Kwin, Compiz, Unity etc do ? They render the desktop using OpenGL which runs all through the gpu.

All compiz does is render the entire desktop using openGL, the same thing Kwin does, the same thing Gnome does, which is the same thing Windows does with Aero. They are exactly the same thing. Do some fact checking please.

Mozilla firefox is an application that runs on the desktop, much like games are an application that run on the desktop. That has nothing to do with gpu accelerated desktops, or your initial point about gpu acceleration on windows causing windows fps to be lower, because again drum roll please Linux also uses the GPU to accelerate the desktop via OpenGL.

FYI mozilla firefox and Chrome both support hardware acceleration on Linux:

http://padoca.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/linux-browsers-gpu-2d3d-supp...

thats from January 2011 .. You were saying ?

Reply Parent Score: 1

delta0.delta0 Member since:
2010-06-01

BTW sorry, I don't mean to put you down in any way. I generally don't like doing that, its just that you are running with some not so accurate information.

I generally don't like commenting on sites I have better things to do it all ends up becoming a pissing contest in the end.

The fact is that Linux and Windows both have hardware accelerated desktops and in both cases it negatively impacts game performance and general application gpu accelerated performance, so you cant say this is why Windows was performing worse. This is absolutely not the case, we have no idea under what conditions they have been testing this, for all we know aero could have been turned off and 3d acceleration turned off in Ubuntu, or they were both kept on, we just don't know. I would guess they had turned off hardware acceleration in both cases, but that is just my guess.

If you read what they have been doing the same performance improvements they managed to make to the Linux build they have been able to make those same improvements in windows and improve the windows Nvidia driver and OpenGL implementation. It just clearly shows what is possible when Hardware vendors and Games manufacturers work together to improve performance, as none of the layers are abstracted away api's they can see directly what is going on through the whole stack and can then optimise appropriately its just a clear sign that if you know what your doing the open source approach will produce more rapid gains because you can watch the game execution through the whole stack. The only boundaries of course being the proprietary binary drivers from Nvidia and AMD, but of course they have sent engineers over to valve which are in turn sitting there and optimising their drivers. At the end of all of this everyone wins, its such a cool thing Valve are doing as it is obviously costing them a lot of money to do this, but every one benefits.

This is why I commented and why I was pissed off with the way Thom reported it, he changed something really positive into a seedy marketing ploy, without even taking a look at the bigger picture and the implications of this. How dare Valve imply Microsoft Windows to be in any way inferior to Linux, it is just a marketing ploy, it has to be... right ?

Thom wasn't one of your favourite Games Left 4 dead 2 on the Xbox 360 ? This is great news right ?

Reply Parent Score: 2

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Linux has a hardware accelerated desktop, in fact it has had it before Windows, in fact well before windows Vista, which is when windows gained hardware acceleration.

Talk about moving goal posts,
What do you think Kwin, Compiz, Unity etc do ? They render the desktop using OpenGL which runs all through the gpu.

Talking about it like that (overall, WRT all the hoopla about "accelerated desktops" in the last few years) already places the goal post in a bit weird place ...what do you think GDI acceleration in GFX cards & video overlays did since early 90s? (so, yeah, Windows first, and X subsequently piggybacking on those capabilities of the hw made for Win; but not the first hw-accelerated consumer desktop, Amiga probably claiming this one)

FYI mozilla firefox and Chrome both support hardware acceleration on Linux:
http://padoca.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/linux-browsers-gpu-2d3d-supp...
thats from January 2011 .. You were saying ?

Though FF under Linux has significantly poorer GPU support, and generally requires "higher" ones to perform comparably. Essentially, it's sadly the OSS way which wastes energy & resources...

Valve says:
"That the Linux version runs faster than the Windows version (270.6) seems a little counter-intuitive, given the greater amount of time we have spent on the Windows version. However, it does speak to the underlying efficiency of the kernel and OpenGL."

This is why I commented and why I was pissed off with the way Thom reported it, he changed something really positive into a seedy marketing ploy, without even taking a look at the bigger picture and the implications of this. How dare Valve imply Microsoft Windows to be in any way inferior to Linux, it is just a marketing ploy, it has to be... right ?

It's only logical, there are reasons to be cautious about such news from Valve now... Come on, with the recent repositioning of Steam, Valve makes itself a direct competitor to MS - Valve is interested to making MS offering appear worse. For Valve, it's now all about Steam store profits, they're making a certain impression to not lose them to MS store.
(though, down the line, I think Valve might be also eyeing Android - also Linux after all; to play there a role similar to what Steam on Windows did for the last few years_

And those benchmarks do seem worthless as anything beyond marketing ploy. They don't really "speak to the underlying efficiency of the kernel and OpenGL" - more likely, it speaks to how nobody in DX team bothers to optimise some bottlenecks in useless scenarios of ~300 fps... (and I would expect people working on Steam to realise that...)

Edited 2012-08-10 00:15 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2