Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 22nd Apr 2013 12:10 UTC
Windows The Verge confirms an earlier story by Mary Jo Foley. "Microsoft is preparing to revive the traditional Start button it killed with Windows 8. Sources familiar with Microsoft's plans have revealed to The Verge that Windows 8.1 will include the return of the Start button. We understand that the button will act as a method to simply access the Start Screen, and will not include the traditional Start Menu. The button is said to look near-identical to the existing Windows flag used in the Charm bar."
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RE[3]: Even if they do...
by Nelson on Mon 22nd Apr 2013 19:41 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Even if they do..."
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

No. It isn't so they say. That's exactly how it is, backed up by figures, charts, and thousand word posts.

You can argue WHY the customers provided feed back and argue that Microsoft's usage interpretation was wrong,but trying to say that the usage isn't legitimate feed back is wrong.

What's even more dubious is the claim that Microsoft is losing a statistically relevant amount of sales over a missing Start Menu. I really don't think Windows 7 would've lifted the PC market more than Windows 8 did, and in fact, without the Surface RT and Surface Pro running Windows 8, Microsoft's revenue would've seen a shortfall the size of the PC market's shortfall.

It didn't because they made up for OEM sales with pure hardware sales of a touch based tablet. In other words, Windows 8 helped save Microsoft from what would've been a disastrous quarter for them.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2013/04/20/microsoft-surface...

The Surface has made Microsoft $200 million dollars alone. The Pro alone contributed 4% of their revenue.

These arent $199 Nexus devices with razor thin margins, they're $1000 ultrabooks with touch screens. That Microsoft sells directly.

Now this might seem like a bit of an aside, but my point in all this is that Microsoft is starting to transition and cater to a new type of user with Windows 8.

Maybe traditional Desktop users wont' like it as much, but there's evidence that its an increasingly shrinking segment -- with ultra portables like the Surface set to see an explosion of growth in that sector.

If Microsoft can do something to grow Surface sales in a semi significant manner, they could start to seriously transition themselves into a Devices and Services company.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Even if they do...
by Alfman on Mon 22nd Apr 2013 20:05 in reply to "RE[3]: Even if they do..."
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

Nelson,

"No. It isn't so they say. That's exactly how it is, backed up by figures, charts, and thousand word posts."

They were obviously looking for data to show their case rather than looking at what customers wanted. Even if there was a shadow of a doubt in the past, in hindsight it's pretty obvious to everyone else that their research was naive, flawed, even deceptive in suggesting that consumers wanted windows 8 to work how it does.


"It didn't because they made up for OEM sales with pure hardware sales of a touch based tablet. In other words, Windows 8 helped save Microsoft from what would've been a disastrous quarter for them."

Microsoft could still haved shipped metro, the difference would be that consumers wouldn't be bounced into it every time they want to launch an app. By any reasonable account, it would be better to give users a choice. Are you suggesting that NOT giving users a choice saved MS from a more disastrous quarter?


"The Surface has made Microsoft $200 million dollars alone."

Ok, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the windows 8 desktop.


"Now this might seem like a bit of an aside, but my point in all this is that Microsoft is starting to transition and cater to a new type of user with Windows 8."

It's still not an excuse for removing the configuration options for the old type of user. Making metro optional wouldn't interfere with new users who wanted to use it.


"Maybe traditional Desktop users wont' like it as much, but there's evidence that its an increasingly shrinking segment -- with ultra portables like the Surface set to see an explosion of growth in that sector."

Your acting as though microsoft had no choice but to make windows 8 bounce clumsily between metro and the desktop, but that's silly. It would be so easy to fix, but they don't because they have an ulterior motive that overrides user feedback.


"If Microsoft can do something to grow Surface sales in a semi significant manner, they could start to seriously transition themselves into a Devices and Services company."

I agree that's their goal, but I still think it sucks that they are willing to throw the opinions of so many desktop users into the wind.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Even if they do...
by Nelson on Mon 22nd Apr 2013 20:42 in reply to "RE[4]: Even if they do..."
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29


They were obviously looking for data to show their case rather than looking at what customers wanted. Even if there was a shadow of a doubt in the past, in hindsight it's pretty obvious to everyone else that their research was naive, flawed, even deceptive in suggesting that consumers wanted windows 8 to work how it does.


I just don't buy this. To me, loud complaining around online tech circles does not mean that a majority, or even a significant amount of customers want the start menu back. The start button is arguable, but the Start Menu's functionality is superseded by the Start Screen.


Microsoft could still haved shipped metro, the difference would be that consumers wouldn't be bounced into it every time they want to launch an app. By any reasonable account, it would be better to give users a choice. Are you suggesting that NOT giving users a choice saved MS from a more disastrous quarter?


No, I'm suggesting that Microsof't ability to pivot Windows for different form factors saved them. It flies in the face of a lot of the "Consumers reject Windows 8" noise that's been made. Its just not true.

Could Microsoft have done things to make the transition smoother? Yes, and Ive said this before. You should be able to pin apps to the Taskbar, for example. 50/50 snap was also sorely needed.

Windows Blue removes the need to go to the Start Screen to launch apps, because the Search Charm shows r esults in line. Hopefully this ends some of the criticism that power users have been hurling towards Windows 8.


Ok, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the windows 8 desktop.


I think it says something about the new Microsoft and the type of consumer they target. They're pivoting to a different core demographic, and they just so happen to be catering to them more than others now.

The future of Windows is inescapably tied to Metro, the Windows Runtime, and the Start Screen.


It's still not an excuse for removing the configuration options for the old type of user. Making metro optional wouldn't interfere with new users who wanted to use it.


Yes it would, by making the ecosystem comparatively weaker for people who wouldnt care either way. Power users care. They care about their start menu, their photoshop, their AutoCAD. I get it.

But normal users? They don't care if its a taskbar or a Start Screen. In fact, I've seen first hand accounts of people enjoying Windows 8 after I gave them a quick introduction. The people I've seen like the fact that they don't have to fish around the internet for software. Its all right there.

Microsoft needs eyeballs on the Windows Store, and this is how they do it. Its working for them pretty well, with a number of developers making great money off of the Windows Store, seeing downloads in the hundreds of thousands to a million range. I myself just cracked 100k since December.

Boot to Desktop is something I'm not really in favor of. It just masks the larger issue, which is that the Start Screen and the Desktop need to move closer together. If there was more seamless interactions between the two, I think it'd make a larger number of people happy.

Some of this is happening with Blue from whats been leaked. Microsoft seems to be working to reduce the amount of times you need to even go to the Desktop both by beefing up WinRT and the Metro environment, and by fleshing out things like the Metro Control Panel and making a Metro File Manager.


Your acting as though microsoft had no choice but to make windows 8 bounce clumsily between metro and the desktop, but that's silly. It would be so easy to fix, but they don't because they have an ulterior motive that overrides user feedback.


No. Leaked builds of Windows showed they're acting on feedback and improving Metro in ways that reduce the need to jump back and forth between environments.


I agree that's their goal, but I still think it sucks that they are willing to throw the opinions of so many desktop users into the wind.


I still haven't s een "so many desktop users" quantified anywhere or backed up by data to show the extent that people are rejecting Windows 8.

Reply Parent Score: 3