Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 16th Aug 2013 16:10 UTC
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y

In the past two months, Microsoft and Google have been bickering over one central issue: HTML5. The Verge has learned that Google is forcing Microsoft to build its YouTube Windows Phone app in HTML5, despite its own Android and iOS versions using superior native code. Although Microsoft has offered to build ad support along with making other tweaks as Google has requested, a full HTML5 app isn't currently possible on the platform.

The difficult thing here is that Google actually has a very good case; it's their API, their service, their rules. On top of that, YouTube publishers - big and small - need to earn money from advertisements too, and incorrect implementations make that harder. Microsoft's mafia practices regarding patents, extorting companies to pay for Android use even though Microsoft has contributed zero code to Android plays a role too. Lastly, Windows Phone is essentially irrelevant with 3% market share - it's not as if Microsoft ever concerned itself with minority platforms.

Still, all this does is hurt consumers, no matter how few Windows Phone users there are. Just work this out, please, you bunch of children.

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RE[4]: Thank you Microsoft
by jgagnon on Fri 16th Aug 2013 19:12 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Thank you Microsoft"
jgagnon
Member since:
2008-06-24

Ok, can I understand that. But what about the reverse? Do any linux distros allow themselves to automatically install themselves as subordinate to the NT bootloader? There are no official standards with regards to BIOS bootloaders and if we're talking defacto standards then arguably linux should be doing more to work under NT's bootloader.


Grub may have had more than a few issues over the years, but I've yet to have one Linux distribution fail to recognize another Linux installation when setting up dual boot. However, I've had MANY times where Vista/7 have stomped all over other Windows installations on the same system.

My worst nightmare over several days (because I was too stubborn to give up): setting up a system with XP, Vista, Windows 7, and Linux... each on separate hard drives. I don't remember which distribution of Linux it was, but most likely Ubuntu (I'm mostly a Debian guy now with some Mint thrown in).

XP stomps all over everything unless it is first in line in the install order. I could not get XP to do anything other than destroy any previous bootloader.

Vista will recognize a previous XP install some of the time but never anything else. About half the time I had XP and Vista ready to boot after Vista was installed, but the other half left me with either an unbootable system or just Vista. Sometimes I had the boot menu listing both XP and Vista but only the Vista option would boot. It was the randomness that pissed me off more than anything.

Windows 7 seems to be able to recognize XP being on there but has major issues if both XP and Vista are already installed on the same box. In fact, I was unable to find any way to have Windows 7 and Vista peacefully coexist on the same computer without chaining the bootloaders. So it would first boot to a menu listing Windows 7 and the "previous OS". Choosing previous OS would then list XP and Vista in a menu, with no way to go back. Windows 7 would not install into Vista's already installed boot menu.

Linux, however, had no issues getting in the mix and setting up Grub accordingly. XP/Vista were not on the main menu because they were hidden behind the 7 bootloader.

The final install order for occasional success was XP first, then Vista, then 7, then Linux. Any other order left at least one OS unbootable.

EDIT: Fixed some poor memory issues.

EDIT: Ok, they may not be fixed... I'm having trouble remember exactly how the boot menus were after it was all installed. It was years ago, sorry for any mistakes.

Edited 2013-08-16 19:22 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: Thank you Microsoft
by Hiev on Fri 16th Aug 2013 19:29 in reply to "RE[4]: Thank you Microsoft"
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

Let's not forget that Windows cant read ext2, ext3 or ext4 partitions but Linux can read NTFS, but this is actually a Windows lost not Linux lost.

Edited 2013-08-16 19:29 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[6]: Thank you Microsoft
by acobar on Sat 17th Aug 2013 15:11 in reply to "RE[5]: Thank you Microsoft"
acobar Member since:
2005-11-15

Actually, if you install a third part software you can.

"http://www.diskinternals.com/linux-reader/"

"http://www.ext2fsd.com/"

As almost all others here, I had much more trouble with Windows installs than the other way around.

Since linux started to use uuid on partition boot tagging things got a little more complicated on cloning but now I keep a little partition to achieve it without much hassle, works wonderfully on "mass deployment".

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Thank you Microsoft
by ilovebeer on Sat 17th Aug 2013 23:41 in reply to "RE[5]: Thank you Microsoft"
ilovebeer Member since:
2011-08-08

Let's not forget that Windows cant read ext2, ext3 or ext4 partitions but Linux can read NTFS, but this is actually a Windows lost not Linux lost.

Why would you expect it to? Or better yet, why would you think it _should_ support those filesystems? I think people tend to forget who the vast majority of Windows users are and why not supporting those is really just common sense.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Thank you Microsoft
by lucas_maximus on Sat 17th Aug 2013 11:01 in reply to "RE[4]: Thank you Microsoft"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Older versions of Windows normally can't detect newer versions. It is a bit shit.

I suggest you check out this. If you install grub to it own partition you can easily manage booting everything from different Windows Versions, Linux, OpenBSD etc.

http://gag.sourceforge.net/

Can be run from CD or Floppy (if anyone used them still).

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: Thank you Microsoft
by Morgan on Sun 18th Aug 2013 19:43 in reply to "RE[4]: Thank you Microsoft"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

If you had each OS on its own hard drive, it would be trivial to set it up and have it working flawlessly. Simply unplug all but the hard drive you're currently installing. For example, when installing XP, unplug the Linux, Vista, and 7 drives. Ditto for each installation. Then, tell the BIOS to boot the Linux drive by default. Set up GRUB on the Linux drive to point to each of the three Windows OSes and you're set.

I've done something very similar in the past, with Slackware Linux, Arch Linux, Windows XP, and Windows 7 each on its own drive, and that's how I set it up. Arch's GRUB provided boot entries for each one with just a few minutes of setting up custom entries.

Edited 2013-08-18 19:45 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3