Goldman Sachs initiated coverage of Apple Computer at “in-line,” noting that Apple is “one of the few companies in tech with the ability to consistently innovate and then monetize that innovation.”
Apple Macintosh Installed Base Set To Grow Again
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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that’s pure BS. Apple, despite the switch campaign, g5s, imac g5s has only managed to get a *lower* market share (1.8% according to idc and other sources :
http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/10/29.6.shtml )
and sorry but this story of the halo effect…I don’t buy it. Since you can use your ipod with windows, there’s no *need* to move to mac because of the ipod.
Looks like even Forbes has a problem with the difference between install base and market share.
“the continued shift to notebooks should fuel unit growth of 10% compared to our industry growth estimate of 9%”
Now any growth in units shifted means growth in install base, even if that growth is smaller than industry average. However it takes unit growth higher than the industry growth rate to increase market share, and this is what Goldman Sachs are predicting. So it should be market share set to grow again. Good news anyway, with the exit of IBM at least someone will be making good laptops.
We at expert zone reported something similair to this a few days ago ( http://www.expert-zone.com/index.php?module=announce&ANN_user_op=vi… ). It seems like Apple is doing really well, its stocks are on the rise as well. The advantage Apple has is the fact that it has a native Microsoft Office, so far no problems with virusses and spyware, and all that in a pretty package.
that’s pure BS. Apple, despite the switch campaign, g5s, imac g5s has only managed to get a *lower* market share (1.8% according to idc and other sources :
http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/10/29.6.shtml )
and sorry but this story of the halo effect…I don’t buy it. Since you can use your ipod with windows, there’s no *need* to move to mac because of the ipod.
This has been brought up time and time again. Apple’s unit shipment has increased. But their market share has dropped because the number of PCs shipped in that time frame increased as well. The growth rate of the PC industry is higher than Apple’s growth rate. This has no bearing whatsoever on the number of units that Apple ships. Instead of calling BS, why not read what the article says (“unit shipments rising 10% in calendar 2004”), and understanding what market share means.
As for the Halo effect, there isn’t any evidence to support or disprove the claim. However, consider this. The iPod is successful because it’s stylish and simple to use. There are loads of other MP3 players out there, but still the iPod is popular. Sure, it works with Windows, but if you like the iPods so much, why not try Apple’s other products? Given the reputation Windows has for spyware and security holes (other OSes have it too, but hey), people could be more willing to switch.
Don’t jump to conclusions and call everything you don’t agree with BS.
Sorry but I’ve heard this dream of apple getting up in market share for *years*. Same words, same motivations. I’ll tell you this : It will *never* happen. A combination of higher prices (yes, they have lowered but they are still higher than most competitors) closed approach and Jobs short-sightness will make apple go *lower*. And I think the final nail in the coffin will be linux. Perhaps linux on Power5, who can say
since *others* have shipped *more* pcs, the fact that apple has increased sales is irrelevant. What counts is the global rate mac/pc. And that is precisely going lower.
I’ll tell you that. I live in italy and while ten years ago i was able to see macs in almost every computer shop, now it’s almost impossible seeing a mac in Rome. And if you don’t believe me pay a visit in our capital and see for yourself.
That’s the *reality*, not just silly dreams of some mac-fanatics journalists that keep dreaming apple taking market share from MS. The war is over a decade ago, and apple has lost. No one have a chance of displayng MS, maybe just linux but in the long term.
And the various analysts saying that Mac adoption rate wil grow? You’re saying that analysts on which stock traders world-wide rely, all have it wrong? And that someone like you knows it best?
Come on.
Apple is not going lower as you say. Sure their “market share” is shrinking but they are selling way more macs now, their stocks are up, and their making a killing off of the ipods. Despite what you think, Apple is growing and according to basic economics they are certainly not going to go away any time soon.
Linux? HA! Linux does not have photoshop, dreamweaver, Microsoft Office, good fonts, SubEthaEdit, the ability to plug in a jumpdrive and have it automatically mount (this is not a standard in linux so maybe there is a distro that does it but who is going to try out all of the distros to find this), and usability (no KDE and GNOME are not very good in this area. This is also HIGHLY lacking in the software.) Linux is good for some things (such as servers) but it will not be a better desktop or even a programming OS anytime in the near future.
If this post seems mean, I have a reason. I have been programming for about a week and a half almost non-stop on some linux kernel functionality for a class.
Um Luca, judging from your comments you didn’t read the article. The amount of Macs shiping is rojected to increase more that the increase in the amount of pc shipping
Apple is standing in a save position between the other PC manufactors. Good revenues, nice products, strong brand and they don’t working against Microsoft. If they start to sell cheap computer with OSX to a broad range of people or port their OSX to x86 they could get problems with the largest software manufactor.
The Mac is the computer only for some of us. But the installed base is growing and thats more important as market share because the installed base is good for stronger software sales in the mac world. This platform is far away from dying.
Its just that maybe you want to convince yourself that you are right, don’t you?
We are always talking about the same thing, price, market share, and so on…..
Just check what will cost a well configured pc, just look how much cost a dual xeon at Dell that it’s configured close to a high end powermac. Much more!
The last quarter have shown increase in product sales at Apple. In 2003 Apple profit has increases by 300 % (that was even a news at osnews), Apple is increasing very well in entreprise market. Look at this recent news
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-5480045.html?tag=zdfd.newsfeed
Oracle is using some Apple machines for their storage needs and plan to use more. Oracle itself is saying that Apple is cheaper and better. Do you think that they are saying that for the personal pleasure of Steve? (And it would have nice if osnews would have published this king of information, isn’t it?).
So where is the illusion? That’s simple ridiculous to try to defend your point of view by coming up with this argument of illusion? You just want to ignore the fact, and that’s simply not constructing to always having the same 10 years old argument against apple by simply ignoring where apple is going now and how they are doing.
And don’t forget that the Power5 is high end processor for high end servers and mainfranes, we are not talking about that here. What’s the point of your statement about Linux and the Power5?
Nah, why bother?
it’s you that want to convince yourself with this story of analysts predictions and installed base vs market share. The article i mentioned stated that in western europe macs are getting lower to 1.5%. And it shows! Maybe you didn.t read the sentence where i said that here in italy macs have become virtually not-existent. And again, if you don’t still believe it, pay a visit here and see for yourself. Maybe you don’t know, but there is life outside the US, and in Europe is very difficult seeing macs. And for what i can see, there’s no signs of increase, at least in Italy. So, what’s your comment now?
in contrast, Microsoft is one of the few companies in tech with the ability to consistently monetize other’s innovation while not innovating.
It certainly is true that Apple is leading as the mainstream innovator but there are a lot of smaller innovators which mainly get lost, and then eventually – sometimes up to 20 years later, the features appear in Microsoft Windows.
The key to innovation is competition, not monopoly. Monopolies never innovate compared to a competitive market economy which always win in the end. Any country embracing competitive open source innovation and moving away from slowly progressing monopoly software will innovate itself to leadership. Using the market economy and innovation China and the East look well poised to overtaking the US on software.
Apple is well implemented in France, England (with significant sales increase in this country), Switzerland, it could be much better in Spain, Germany, etc, but that’s still ok. I really can not believe that tou can not find any macs in Italy, if so, well sorry for you….and for Italy, but does not mean that you should generalise it for evrywhere. And again i don’t believe you!!!!
Apple have shown a well sales increase in Asia, North Africa countries, South Africa, Apple is very srong in Japan. So you see, that’s not only US as you want us to believe.
That’s not a post of a mac user, as you want to believe that anyone who tries to defend Apple is a an Apple maniac, , you have this old trol way of thinking…. I am a Unix user, and think that Apple has made a wonderfuil job for the Unix world, and now they get the results of that work. You are talking about the reality, but you are ignoring the reality of Apple today.
And again, i am saying many examples that show how Apple is growing, but you just ignore them, you don’t even reply to it……
You don’t find Macs in Italy, well i am french, go to France, you will find them in a lot of places, that’s even not too far….
No Luca, you aren’t right. You know the difference between what you see in Italy and what is reality in the world. Please before you post. Simply read the numbers of the last four financial quarters from AAPL. It’s so simple if worlwide the PC market is growing then shrinks the Market share from the also growing Apple because they don’t sell so much Computer like Dell. Is it hard to understand?
I think Apple is not doing a well marketing job. They only seem to market the iPod and those commercials tend to be annoying and weird. (IMHO)
They need to use profits to market their mac line to get higher volume so they can lower the prices on the hardware eventually getting much more volume and using that profit to advertise eventually getting a huge marketshare and the ability to compete much better with cheap PCs
thanks,
tim hawkins
You cannot find Macs because you don’t want to buy them.
I live in a small town near Bologna and even that we’ve a shop where you can buy Apple products.
I own an iBook and I had to walk for 100 mt to buy it.
In Bologna is even better, also some computer shops sell Apple hardware.
Luca, I don’t live in the US, luckily– I’m Dutch and Macs are very easy to find in the Netherlands. I see Macs at my university, Macs at my job, Macs at friend’s places etc. etc. etc.
Get your facts right. Italy ain’t the world.
” Luca, I don’t live in the US, luckily– I’m Dutch and Macs are very easy to find in the Netherlands. I see Macs at my university, Macs at my job, Macs at friend’s places etc. etc. etc.
Get your facts right. Italy ain’t the world.”
and neither the Netherlands is.
By the way:
“Apple Western Europe share drops .5%
But it was sales in Western Europe that had the most dramatic drop for Apple. The company’s market share fell a half-a-percent to 1.5% in Q3, after a 2.0% share in Q2. Units sales plummeted by 29,500 to 147,300 from 176,800.
Compared to other PC vendors, Apple had a whopping 16.7% decline in unit growth in Western Europe from the previous quarter. While Apple declined, its competitors gained 11.2% in unit growth from Q2. Apple’s growth year-to-year in Western Europe was off 0.7%, while other PC makers had a combined 13% rise.”
If you’re not able to read, it’s not my fault. And with 1.5%
share in western europe it’s easy to see that macs are *almost* not existent. Granted, if i sspend time i can find
some isolate shops that sell macs, but on the other hands at the same time i ca find 100 pc shops evry mac one. And believe me or not, thera are even people who dont know what a mac is here.
Is it just me or has the quality of troll gone down? xxx.chvlva.adelphia.net would research his posts, or at least read the article.
Another intersting snippet from the article: “we see iPod and other music-related offerings as well as software, services, and peripherals contributing over 80% of Apple’s top-line growth in fiscal 2005 and 90% in fiscal 2006”
So much more than just the halo effect, the iPod is a serious player in the portfolio in it’s own right. Looks use of music as Apple’s entrance to the digital hub is going quite well.
Originally I have been playing in the field of graphics. At that time I worked a lot with the mac at work but had a PC at home. At that time (Mac OS 7.x,8.x..) it was a JOKE for any techie to go Mac. They simply sucked. And that’s experience talking. You just couldn’t play an mp3 while typing a letter… The only people wanting a mac were the tradionally mac-fanatic graphists. But with time there were less and less reasons to get a mac. You could get photoshop and illustrator for windows and a faster machine for a fraction of the price. That’s history.
Nowadays I work as an independent programmer and believe me what I see is quite different. While everyone has a PC many _developers_ have switched to OSX. I personnally ordered a cheap mac laptop this week, just to get some more experience. If I am satisfied I may change my main working machine also. While it had mostly disasppeared from the shelves in the 8.x, 9.x times, since OSX came out the mac has been getting a lot of exposure in french and german speaking countries (Belgium, France, and my part of Switzerland). If you go to big channels like MediaMarkt (German) and Fnac (french), both present in Switzerland, you’ll see macs side-to-side with other laptops. Which was very uncommon only two years ago. You had to go to a “mac-shop”.
Why I (and others) are trying OSX? Well I have been working with linux, nearly exclusively for about three years now. Mostly programming, java an PHP. Let me tell you I am more than fed up. Programmers, Graphists, and well most people don’t want to be Unix administrator. They don’t want to have to apply obscure patches every time a new piece of hardware gets connected. Plus, since I also do graphics, honestly, I tried, sincerely tried to use the GIMP. Lots of functionality but absolutely miserable ergonomy. For 100$ I can get photoshop elements which fits most of my needs. I used to reboot on windows (or use wine) just to use photoshop.
Then I have seen people switching around me, people of the most techiest kind. And I tried OSX for a while on a really old g3 266. It was sure slow (old machine) but it truly gave me motivation to get a real mac to run Eclipse or Idea and PhotoShop.
And finally, yes, the mac is just fscking beautifull, classy and all. Ever tried to launch a (Java) Swing app on a mac? There’s a lot of culture tied to a platform. The mac culture is to have something simple and beautiful. Well, it is.
”
Apple is not going lower as you say. Sure their “market share” is shrinking but they are selling way more macs now, their stocks are up, and their making a killing off of the ipods. Despite what you think, Apple is growing and according to basic economics they are certainly not going to go away any time soon.
Linux? HA! Linux does not have photoshop, dreamweaver, Microsoft Office, good fonts, SubEthaEdit, the ability to plug in a jumpdrive and have it automatically mount (this is not a standard in linux so maybe there is a distro that does it but who is going to try out all of the distros to find this), and usability (no KDE and GNOME are not very good in this area. This is also HIGHLY lacking in the software.) Linux is good for some things (such as servers) but it will not be a better desktop or even a programming OS anytime in the near future.
If this post seems mean, I have a reason. I have been programming for about a week and a half almost non-stop on some linux kernel functionality for a class.
”
Out of all the people in my family and my 5 best friends, none of them use Photoshop, Dreamweaver or own a jump drive. Also, your jump drive arguement is crap, every distro I have tried that has a 2.6 kernel automatically mounts a jump drive. Also, if you think Linspire has usability problems, then there is just something wrong with you. Clicking once to install a program too hard for you?
The only reason people think Linux is so hard is because they hear the word free and after that, aren’t willing to pay for a distro but still expect the developers to hold their bloody hands like they are little babies. It’s bloody pathetic.
Did you even read the article you linked? Let me quote it in case you missed it.
“In the second quarter, Apple posted a 2.1% share on sales of 879,900 Macintosh personal computers. During the same quarter last year, Apple had a 1.8% share after selling 791,100 Macs.”
“Year-to-year figures showed Apple with a 5.7% jump, as other vendors rose 9.8%.”
And finally, that article even explains why Apple’s market share dropped, due to a shortage of iMac G4s and G5 processors which affected Powermac sales.
“A contributing factor to the fall off in Mac sales worldwide was a shortage of G4-based consumer iMacs, after the company stopped making the older model and announced there would be a delay of more than 60 days before it would ship a new G5-based, flat-panel iMac. Apple said earlier this month iMac sales were off worldwide by 6%. In addition, a shortage of dual-processor G5 chips from manufacturer IBM also meant fewer Pro Mac systems were available to sell. As a result, Power Mac sales were off 10% in the quarter and most definitely had a negative affect on market share.”
As has already been said, Italy isn’t the world. Even the article you quoted shows that Apple is growing. There are people who are living in a distortion field. It sure ain’t those who think that Apple is growing.
…and overall Apple is growing. So outside of western europe there seem to be a Apple boom. That you don’t see Apple computer at every corner is normal. The world largest PC manufactor Dell don’t sell his PC’s also at every corner.
1.5% of all selled PC’s in Europe are really many units. And thats in a overall growing market. Please read all of the buisness papers.
Friggin hell people, these analysts talk about THE FUTURE, not about the past. Y’all bring up figures of THIS YEAR, while the analysts are talking about NEXT YEAR.
May I remind you that in the early nineties and late eighties people like Andy Tanenbaum and Linus Torvalds we’re convinced that the Intel platform wouldn’t be around much longer? Computer experts back then didn’t gave the Intel platform much chance, they laughed at it. See where Intel/x86 is now.
What would be a good maret share for you 10% 20% you seem to be crazy. You don’t know how many PC’s are out there and if also 1% of them Mac’s thats really a lot.
” 1.5% of all selled PC’s in Europe are really many units”
ok stop joking
It’s almost not existent and as ai already said, the fact that macs are (just) increasing means nothing, since pcs are growing much more. What count is the ratio pc/mac, and thats where apple is falling. And remember, smaller share = less applications
the day MS ever decides to stop office for mac apple is over and this time for real…
Luca, you seem to know stuff like this better than educated analysts from all over the world… You must be the new Einstein.
You failed to reply to my and other’s posts and counter the arguments. You obviously lost this argument.
“Luca, you seem to know stuff like this better than educated analysts from all over the world… You must be the new Einstein.
You failed to reply to my and other’s posts and counter the arguments. You obviously lost this argument.”
Maybe you’re a bit younger…But if you’re not, i keep reading this crap since win95′ days, the told us *the same BS* over and over again: “Despite win95, apple is well poised to grow and to go up in market share”. It didn’t happen, it doesnt happen and it won’t happen. Period.
The ony way for apple to increase share is to license its os. But it will never happen because of this fu**ing inflated ego that respond to the name of Steven Jobs.
“Maybe you’re a bit younger…But if you’re not, i keep reading this crap since win95′ days, the told us *the same BS* over and over again: “Despite win95, apple is well poised to grow and to go up in market share”. It didn’t happen, it doesnt happen and it won’t happen. Period.”
It was the iMac in 1998 that “saved” Apple– it’s highly unlikely that many people would say that “Apple is still going strong” in ’95-’97. Please state your sources.
Oh, and in arguments it’s a sign of weakness to curse and swear. As are personal attacks– Steve Jobs isn’t Apple, just like a coach isn’t the team.
“What would be a good maret share for you 10% 20% you seem to be crazy”
Well, this has been oft said and obviously as often ignored. So I will repeat it here: Did it ever occur to you that Mac developpers are fleeing the platform in hordes..? And why is that? Why was MS thinking about canning Office? – Because “noone” would buy it. Same for Mac-IE. Same for Hebrew Office localization – Mac market share is at a point where it’s not viable anymore… I could go on all day long, but I am not being paid for it, so you get the idea, alright?
This comes to mean that a “good market share”, as you put it is one that is percieved as a “viable” market share. The current one certainly isn’t.
You may be happy about Apple’s recent ventures into developing their own video editor, own browser, own this, own that… but that is not because they are sooo kind to you, but it a strategic decision. Developers are leaving the Mac. Apple *had* to start writing their own apps because having a platform without apps would even look kinda strange to the most stubborn Mac-user.
Things are not good for the Mac. I am not saying for Apple or their stock price, I am saying for the platform – 2,5% is obviously not enough, no matter how elite you feel with your iPod. That is my opinion regarding to market share. If I knew the exact thresh-hold where devs left Apple, I’d give you that figure.
So, Microsoft developed their own browser and email client and IM application, video editor, media player/jukebox etc. because Windows was dying? False logic.
IE:Mac simply wasn’t up to par with Mac OS X. I can’t recall any talks about Microsoft wanting to cancel Office:Mac (link me). The only thing I recall was a some months ago when OSNews reported that Bill Gates and Steve Jobs celebrated the fact that Apple and MS we’re working more closely together than ever.
first of all, Godman Sachs is an Investment Bank and not a Research Company (incredible that Forbes write this)… second… who cares about the market share ? important are the EBITDA, earning per share (EPS) and multiple (E/P)….
What developers are actually leaving the mac? Currently all the software I need is available and more… Unlike on linux. This is why I bought an ibook this week. If there were no apps I wouldn’t try the new macs. I have enough purely-hobby OSs on my PC.
You may think developer are leaving the mac but do you know at least some developers? What I see is exactly the opposite. Although I am not talking about developers who create apps specially for the mac but more on general developers. Those that use java, php, perl or whatever. It’s all you can get on unix (freebsd), with added class and ease of you use. That’s all I want.
It IS a huge trend for developers to switch to OSX. At least in so-little Switzerland… This is really what I see around me and not some mac-fanatic speaking. I have actually been bashing macs for ten years before OSX came out.
“So, Microsoft developed their own browser and email client and IM application, video editor, media player/jukebox etc. because Windows was dying?”
No, I said Apple was, go re-read for yourself. If MS wouldn’t do it, there’d still be million others around. But Apple has to fear that their devs decide to code for that other platform the coming season to sell to 95% of the market instead of 2,5% only. Never mind, I’ll keep taking care of your witty comments.. 🙂
Market share isn’t the relevant thing for software development its the installed base so there are potential customers.
And believe it 1.5% is much more then 1.5 selled units. But this you will learn next year in the second grade class.
No, I said Apple was
There seem to be enough other browsers for OSX…. Opera, Mozilla, Firefox, Omniweb, IE, iCab and more. The same goes for other applications.
Take a look at versiontracker, apple.com etc. you’ll see enough programs and apps.
the software discussion isn’t very useful. Every Mac software developer make Mac Software to earn money. So there must be some money in the Mac community also with a 1.5% market share. It’s such a simple thing.
“The ony way for apple to increase share is to license its os. But it will never happen because of this fu**ing inflated ego that respond to the name of Steven Jobs.”
This is incorrect, Apple did this before after Steve Jobs had left and it was nearly killed by doing so… The only way Apple survived was by calling Steve Jobs back who in turn disallowed the cloners to make their own versions of the Mac.
You obviously know more than the rest of considering we have been watching these companies for years. I am no analyst but I know when to agree with them and how to interpret what they say.
I think maybe you should do your research before you shout your mouth off.
I own an Apple iBook G3 600mhz using OS X. It runs great and I use OmniWeb (latest version) to browse the Internet. It’s a great little laptop and the wireless capabilities are really nice. My wife has an iPod Mini and I prefer the iPod over other portable MP3/Media players.
My next laptop will be an Apple iBook or Powerbook.
Btw, I have multiple boxes : 3.0ghz+ WinXP laptop wireless, 2 winxp desktops and run Ubuntu (Linux) on my laptop as well.
now there are enough developer on the mac platform.
“Take a look at versiontracker, apple.com etc. you’ll see enough programs and apps.”
I dont count second-rate programs such those at versiontracker,macapps and so on. I just consider fisrt-class apps and open-source apps.
And by the way, from personal experience the osx gui is the slowest and full of worthless eye-candy. And it’s better not to speak bout this crap microkernel mach (the main reason is so painfully slow).
don’t cry and drink a hot tea, what you count or not isn’t relevant. Nice sleep.
And it’s better not to speak bout this crap microkernel mach (the main reason is so painfully slow)
Now I know that you are absolutely not to be taken seriously.
“And it’s better not to speak bout this crap microkernel mach (the main reason is so painfully slow)
Now I know that you are absolutely not to be taken seriously.”
Linus Torvalds in person said that and he’s definetly more capable that those sub-par pseudo-engineers at apple.
it’s ok. write it all out of you. its ok.
Aaargh. OSX doesn’t use a muK. It’s muK based, just like the WindowsNT-line, just like BeOS.
Linus Torvalds may say he doesn’t like it, but that doesn’t mean he is right. It’s his personal preference.
And yes, I am more capable to discuss muK than you since I performed a study on the whole muK/Monolithic debate for my QNX article which I publlished on OSNews a few weeks ago. Normally I don’t try to brag, but I obviously am more capable of producing sane comments about muK than you do.
A Mac is a PC. Get your terminology right.
INSTALLED BASE =! MARKET SHARE, DUH!
Yes, we know that. What do you think you are for knowing
something so trivial? Marketing Einstein?
HOWEVER, when a company or a lone developer sits down and starts thinking which platform to develop for, he doesn’t say: “Well, Mac have 20 million units and PC have 900 million units. Well, 20 millions seems enough, I’ll develop for Mac!”.
He more likely says: “Let’s target 95% of all the market and screw the rest of platforms. I don’t care if there are a lot of units”.
In any case, PC vs Mac market share ratio is about the same as PC vs Mac installed base ratio. So it doesn’t matter either way!
So there!
you’re right a Mac is a PC i’ve meant with PC the x86-Windows platform. Sorry for that.
rip me to shreds if you want, but Macs are cheaper then PCs.
http://hohle.net/scrap_post.php?post=50
PC’s are the 3rd most expensive thing that the average homeowner purchases. More people than ever before are trying to make that a quality purchase – and Apple is a viable computer for many people. It’s a flight to quality. To say what is going to happen in the future, and to try and convince others of it, is silly. Luca sounds like a 15 year-old who wishs his parents had bought him a Mac instead of a Gateway.
“Useless” eye-candy does make the thing beautiful. And this is probably more efficient for end-users than benchmarks. A good comparison on the importance of eye-candy is just when you see a mac at the fnac, the _default_ screen saver, is beautifull and classy.. while most PCs still show the infamous marquee saver… All a question of philosophy of course.
Most end-users will just care about the overall feeling. That’s why I predict a nice future to OSX.
Ok, also for you, there are developer for the mac you doesn’t seem to be one of them. If the decision of making software for a platform so simple you wouldn’t sell one license also to 900 Million potential customers. Software is special, for example mac have a much higher market share in music and movie production than the average market share. So there are producers of mac software in this segments. In other segments is the market share lower than average for example home user will miss some game titles on the mac.
If you want to reach with your software product all of the 900 Million Windows-x86 Customers you have to compare your product with a broad range of competitors so there are many software companies with multi platform versions or special mac veersions of their software. Where a market there is a seller.
“I dont count second-rate programs such those at versiontracker,macapps and so on. I just consider fisrt-class apps and open-source apps.”
If you had a clue you would know that pretty well all OSS can be run on a Mac, either using Fink, DarwinPorts, or Gentoo as a package manager. Or download the source and compile yourself. And I guess you don’t consider the recently ported Renderman to be a “fisrt-class” program, or the less recently ported Maya. Perhaps you don’t use 3d, so how about databases would you consider Oracle to be “fisrt-class”? These are developers moving to the Mac. I refer you to Thom Holwerda for your comments about the kernel.
is utterly stupid in the first place…
“the _default_ screen saver, is beautifull and classy.. while most PCs still show the infamous marquee saver… ”
This is true for all systems. They will never go into an energy saving mode when calculating your stupid, childish savers. Put a blank black screen and that’s it. Today’s screen don’t burn in anymore, anyways…
>>
HOWEVER, when a company or a lone developer sits down and starts thinking which platform to develop for, he doesn’t say: “Well, Mac have 20 million units and PC have 900 million units. Well, 20 millions seems enough, I’ll develop for Mac!”.
<<
Umm.. Actually, some do indeed say this and are quite successful.
Ok thats the rule, every software company only one platform please.
What I was talking about is the fact that overall good-looking devices are more attractive. And yes, the fact that your screensaver, or default background looks better has an influence on sales. Even KDE & Gnome have evolved their interface to get more and more eye candy. Because originally (some years ago) the look of all linux apps was so ugly and cold that nobody would even try them. (I did).
For some people, elegance and beauty might be “for homos” as some previous poster wrote. For me it is not, or if it this, they deserve my respect for that. Now that most processors, PowerPC or Intel/AMD are fast enough for most of my daily uses I start looking more and more for things that look good, are pleasant to use and I just don’t care that much about pure number-crunching.
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HOWEVER, when a company or a lone developer sits down and starts thinking which platform to develop for, he doesn’t say: “Well, Mac have 20 million units and PC have 900 million units. Well, 20 millions seems enough, I’ll develop for Mac!”.
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Umm.. Actually, some do indeed say this and are quite successful.
Some yes.
Some people even pierce their nostrills.
Most however, don’t.
“Some people even pierce their nostrills.”
and they earn money with piercing their nostrills? Mac developer do so.
HOWEVER, when a company or a lone developer sits down and starts thinking which platform to develop for, he doesn’t say: “Well, Mac have 20 million units and PC have 900 million units. Well, 20 millions seems enough, I’ll develop for Mac!”.
That lone developer will sit down and consider how likely his target demography will *pay* for his software, how saturated the market is for the type of software he’s writing, and if there is a demand.
A larger marketshare doesn’t mean squat if the consumers aren’t willing to pay for their software. Take Linux for example. Those who run Linux tend to be very focused on OSS and Free software in general. While there are users who are willing to pay for software, the majority would rather get their software for free with source code.
The Windows market is saturated with all sorts of freeware/shareware apps that you’d be hard pressed to make anything that people would want. To top it off, a lot of it tends to be pirated anyway especially among consumers in third world countries.
There are many lone developers on the Mac. It’s a viable platform for lone developers. It’s got a demographic that isn’t averse to buying software, it comes with first class development tools for free that don’t restrict distribution, and it’s large enough to be a viable target.
thats the point, thank you
Yes, and some will say, wow there are like three billion apps on Windows, visibility is going to be a problem so I’l’ build a high quaity application sell it to an installed base who are less likely to pirate my app and enjoy the fruits of thinking out of the box.
I dont count second-rate programs such those at versiontracker,macapps and so on. I just consider fisrt-class apps and open-source apps.
Install fink or Darwinports. You get all your open source apps there. You get all sorts of first class apps on the Mac, but I doubt you can afford them so I won’t bother listing them.
And by the way, from personal experience the osx gui is the slowest and full of worthless eye-candy. And it’s better not to speak bout this crap microkernel mach (the main reason is so painfully slow).
Right… the OS X GUI is slow. When will the trolls give up? Open up many large apps (i.e. Netbeans, Office, Photoshop and MATLAB). Start compiling something in the background (i.e. install something via fink). Do all these tasks concurrently. You won’t see a slow down when switching apps. I don’t on my Powerbook.
As for a slow GUI, do all the above tasks, and play a DVD. Then hit Expose. Realize that all the effects are done in realtime and the DVD is still playing. Now, try doing that in your favorite OS/WM (KDE, GNOME, Windows, etc). Then come back and tell me the OS X GUI is slow.
A microkernel isnt necessarily slow. It’s slower when calling kernel functions, and thus there are some benchmarks that show Linux to be an order of magnitude faster (i.e. lmbench), but you’d be hard pressed to see that in the real world. In fact, there aren’t any real world benchmarks on the internet that show Linux to be faster than OS X.
Maybe you haven’t noticed, but Macs cost like 30% more in Europe than in US, that makes like 50% more than a simple PC! What’s more, you can go to a shop, choose individual parts and combine yourself a real monster for such amount of money.
nevertheless there are many people who buy Macs also in Europe. Only the price can’t be the the reason for this decision.
@felar
Here’s where you failed to think about it: your assembled “real monster” wouldn’t run Mac OSX. Therefore wouldn’t be a Mac. You’d still be back at square one after spending all that money on Wintel parts.
I bought my Powerbook because it is the cheapest notebook in its range. 12″, non-integrated video card, nice design, wireless and bt built in, and as a bonus, runs OS X.
There was a review of a Linux Certified laptop here on OSNews a few days ago. While it was about $100 cheaper, it didn’t have wireless, bluetooth, had an integrated video card (yuck!!). All of these would have definitely brought the price up to be beyond the Powerbook.
Apple’s hardware isn’t 50% more expensive than comparable PCs. Most of the time they’re equal, give or take 10%.
Congratulations you picked about the only form factor/feature set where Wintel does not really even have an offering. Seems that Wintel’s offerings in the highly mobile sector are normally smaller, lighter, and consume less power than 12inch powerbooks. They are also normally targeted at users who are only interested in running their word processor, check a few spreadsheets and do email. You don’t need anything more than integrated video and it offers reduced power consumption as a result.
Apples notebooks are well priced though. The i-Macs are great value but in places outside the US you have even fewer options/customizations and they are more expensive than in other parts of the world.
Personally I whole heartedly recommned Apple to anyone without specific software needs that cannot be met with a Mac.
It always seems odd to watch diehard Linux folks discuss Apple Computer. For the same reason you use Linux and FOSS, so does the diehard Mac crowd. Trying to convince either party to alter their thinking is impossible, it’s part of who they are at this point.
Cost has never been an issue with Apple users, they have been paying a premium forever and will continue to do so for the duration. Not everyone on this rock is flat broke or gives a damn what computers cost, they simply want something that works, is attractive setting on their desk and handles their needs. Some no doubt buy Apple just for the appearance. It’s their money.
MS isn’t at all likely to discontinue production of an Office suite for Apple. The last thing MS needs is for Apple to fail in the computer business.
Apple still has about 100% of the Macintosh market share while the rest of the PC industry continues to hover at roughly 0%.
I don’t know and I don’t care about these Market Share statistics. Statistics will be anything to anybody.
Everyone around me are getting Macs nowadays, including myself, and we always looks back and think why in the hell did we put with Windows for so long?!
Even in our office where 2 years ago had a single Mac, almost the entire office (40+) are Macs. And I was in the forefront of it. Now, our IT manager mostly does graphics, errrr, on his Mac.
Not to mention most of our employees have switched to Macs for their homes, too.
I fix computers on the weekends for “free” whenever I find time. 99% of the fixes I do are the result of Windows Spyware and Virus. This is totally pathetic, and that’s why I do it for free, feel sorry for these poor souls who has no choice but to use PCs.
I still use a PC at for playing games, though.. : )
Macs suck because I say so! Any reporter who would say anything good about Macs is a Mac zealot! Nobody undertands market share because there is no way Apple’s can be growing!
Give me a break. Anybody who either says anything good or rejects a Mac is automagically blacklisted by Mac haters or Mac lovers respectively. It is infantile.
Perhaps we should restrict ourselves to more tangible discussions (like the technical merits of the platform) rather than business aspects (where we all have theories, but we are all ignorant of).
http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=4103
My PC-loving buddies mock me for doing something as insanely stupid as actually BUYING the software I use. Can you imagine that, I’m BUYING, as in: paying-money-for the application I use. I must be insane [but then again, I do drive a Mac, I can’t be very much in sync with the world].
There are possibly 5 gazillion apps for the PC, which of course everybody has. Your argument will be that even if only a certain percentage of the amount of copies is paid for, the result is still going to be more profit for the company that develops for the Windows platform.
You really have to be a special kind of retard to write software for the Mac. Of course, since the people who absolutely LOVE the platform so much they don’t want to pay for the software they’re using are so numerous, you now have the latest Microsoft innovation to augment your Windows experience: activation.
You not only have to put in the product registration key [which I can live with], now you also have to ask your application vendor whether you pretty-please with a cherry on top can use the application you forked out all that money for.
When you change your configuration too much, your application decides it’s sitting on another computer and you get to re-activate all over again.
That is going to be so great in n years, when you want to go back to some old files that can only be run on a certain platform/application, you will need to re-install the software. Dang! The company went bust/doesn’t support that old hack anymore. Oops. Sorry for the inconvenience.
If Mac was the perfect platform everybody would be using it or simply be an idiot for using something else.
But if I set up a new rice box at some newbie Win XP users who are greener than grass when it comes to working with something as insanely complicated as a computer, you should see their determination when they demand I make sure they have the latest virus scanners on board because they heard so many evil things about them [and they still insist on using Win XP regardless, mind].
I’ve heard stories about the demise of Apple for more than a decade now. You would have to be really mean-spirited to deny the fact that they have seriously improved on the quality and abilities of their OS, that Apple creates products that a serious amount of people want to buy [even though maybe you don’t] and that at least up until now [and I’m certainly not so blase to say that it could never change] they have a very good reputation as far as security is concerned.
I’ve used many OS’s, I know my way around quite a few of them. I’m happy with my Mac. You’re absolutely free to disagree. But to claim the demise of a company who is now making more money than it has ever before in its entire history, isn’t that just a tad premature? Hmmm, not even a little bit?
Percentages of different base numbers cannot be directly compared!! For instance, if Apple has, say, 3% share in year X, and 2.5% in year Y, it DOES NOT NECESSARILY mean they dropped in sales numbers! In fact, comparing the percentages means nothing without knowing the other numbers involved (such as total units for each year).
For instance, let’s say, for the sake of argument, there were 10,000,000 computers sold in year X and 15,000,000 sold in year Y. That means that in year X, Apple (with it’s 3%) would have represented 300,000 units and in year Y (with 2.5%) would have represented 375,000. Oh look! A bigger number of units even though their percentage dropped! *gasp*
My understanding is that total computer sales have been increasing pretty much every year. As long as Apple’s total sales exceeds their sales from the previous years, then they have grown–even if their % of share dropped! It is irrelevant how fast or slow they are growing compared to the rest of the industry–as long as they make money, can pay their shareholders, and pay their employees, then there is no problem.
Beware of percentages, for they can conceal much truth.
Linux? HA! Linux does not have photoshop, dreamweaver, Microsoft Office, good fonts, SubEthaEdit, the ability to plug in a jumpdrive and have it automatically mount (this is not a standard in linux so maybe there is a distro that does it but who is going to try out all of the distros to find this), and usability (no KDE and GNOME are not very good in this area. This is also HIGHLY lacking in the software.) Linux is good for some things (such as servers) but it will not be a better desktop or even a programming OS anytime in the near future.
Linux will never have MS Office, that’s true… However, Adobe appears to be porting Photoshop to Linux, MacroMedia supports running DreamWeaver under Linux, there’s a pure Python knock-off of SubEthaEdit, and the Office alternatives for Linux are already surpassing the Microsoft Office product in features and usability.
Any Linux distribution running hotplug will automount jumpdrives (Mandrake, Fedora Core 3, SuSe, Knoppix, Lindows, etc.), and while KDE and GNOME are different than Windows and Mac OS/X in their operation, they are generally accepted to be equivalent (and the VFS facilities and modularity/customizability of both are far beyond either commercial offering). My overall experience is that Linux is typically more plug-and-play friendly than Windows, where you need to obtain drivers for every device that frequently introduce problems / conflicts (good example: ever try Windows with NetGear WiFi cards and Belkin APs? Linux – plug in and it just works, Windows – need drivers, need patches for drivers, still drops connections every minute or so).
These criticisms of desktop Linux really fall flat for anyone that uses all three environments on a regular basis (I do).
It is true that Linux currently has fewer end-user desktop applications, as should be expected. But it’s also true that the number of companies, especially traditionally Windows and MacOS ones, now developing those things is VERY rapidly increaing. The past few months has seen Adobe and Macromedia moving both moving into greatly expanding their Linux development, which is the most obvious sign that Linux on the desktop is clearly on the radar.
from: http://www.sbpost.ie/web/DocumentView/did-265992157-pageUrl–2FThe-…
“From Apple’s perspective, these figures are awful. Remember chief executive Steve Jobs’s cocky slogan “Five down, 95 to go?” That was five years ago when Apple had what now seems like a hefty 5 per cent of the world’s computer market. What’s his slogan now? “1.5 and still alive?” “One and a half ain’t too bad?”
agreed wholeheartedly.
And even if profits are up now, it’s just for the ipod. Without it, apple would be in serious trouble. Just subrtact the ipod sales, and try to figure…And remember that with the ipod, history will repeat itself, and overtime you will see thhe ipod rivals taking off and slowly but surely leaving apple in the dust. Just a matter of time but i can bet on it
“Percentages of different base numbers cannot be directly compared!! For instance, if Apple has, say, 3% share in year X, and 2.5% in year Y, it DOES NOT NECESSARILY mean they dropped in sales numbers! In fact, comparing the percentages means nothing without knowing the other numbers involved (such as total units for each year)”
and you still dont get it. Assuming masc are up, the rest of the pc world is growing even more, and so the % of macs is lower. And thats what counts despite what you would like to believe. Look, Adobe has discontinued many mac products, corel discontinued all, may games are not available, there’s no really an equivalent for autocad on mac (yes, there’s archicad but it’s terrible) and if it were not for office for mac the software for apple would be much worse then linux. Ah and linux has already surpassed macs, despite not being so “user-friendly”.
Guess what happens when linux will completely mature in the desktop…
Luca, shouldn’t you continue on about the Mach kernel? You had some very interesting thoughts on that, lol.
I’m not taking anyone seriously who claims that OSX uses a muK. And, in that very same line, you claimed that the so-called muK in OSX made it slow. Two humungous errors in one line. Amazing. And then you want others to take you seriously.
MacroMedia supports running DreamWeaver under Linux,
Then they do a terrible job supporting it. This is pretty much the one app that prevents me from getting rid of Windows. Actually the Studio.
and the Office alternatives for Linux are already surpassing the Microsoft Office product in features and usability.
Now you must be joking. I recommend OpenOffice to everyone because it does everything most people need. BUT Office is just better, certainly has more features and things like Lotus 1-2-3 shortcuts in Excel make it much more useable.
corel discontinued all
Corel seems to develop Corel Painter for Mac. Thats a new app.
Linus Torvalds in person said that and he’s definetly more capable that those sub-par pseudo-engineers at apple.
UGG, have you EVER looked at the linux kernel code? It is the ugliest code you will ever see. This isn’t an attack on Linus or anybody in particular, its just that you shouldn’t hold the Linux kernel up as a holy grail. In case if you aren’t up with the times monolithic kernels aren’t that great.
Developers are fleeing TO the mac platform not from it. How can you possibly not count “second-rate” programs when you count open-source? I think somebody is running Linux and is missing his Microsoft Office.
Also yeah my 867 mhz powerbook is oh so painfully slow at running the gui…whatever shall I do? (In case if you couldn’t tell that was sarcasm)
I would love to see Windows back on the PPC hardware. Or atleast be ablt to buy it.
Actually I think it is 100% to the infitite decimal.
Mind you, you have to factor in a +/- 5% sampling error
Neither are Bryce, KPT. Those were purchased from Metacreations and existed on Mac (and PC) for a long time.
Some people seem to be rather obsessed with marketshare. It’s true that more marketshare won’t hurt, but having low marketshare has not been hurting Apple at all recently. In fact, Apple has several times as many developers writing software for OS X today than it did a few years ago.
According to the marketshare fanatics, the number of developers should be decreasing, but it is in fact, increasing at an exponential rate. How is this possible? It’s because the platform is growing, and it’s easier to get a bigger share of a smaller pie than to try to get a sliver of a huge pie where Microsoft has reserved everything for itself.
Secondly, all the global marketshare numbers include sales of PCs from places where Apple does very little business. Like China for example. Most people are aware the Chinese PC market is exploding and because Apple doesn’t really sell at all there, of course it has the effect of depressing Apple’s marketshare. But does this mean Apple the company is not growing? NO!
Look at the bottom line. Is Apple selling more Macs today than last year? Yes. Is Apple’s overall revenues growing at a double digit pace? Yes. Is Apple’s profit doubling or tripling on a yearly basis? Yes. Does Apple have thousands of more active developers this year than last year? Yes. Is Microsoft still developing for the Mac? Yes.
So what is the problem?
Even if Mac software sales account for only a few percent of Microsoft’s total revenues, there is no way in hell that Microsoft would voluntarily give up $600 million in yearly Mac revenue because that amount is only a few percentage of the total. The point? There is still tons of money to be made in the Mac market, and that’s the only thing that really matters.
Forgot about Bryce. I did not know that Painter was purchased. Have Corel made many improvements or just incremental?
Apple’s real problem is inertia. I cannot tell you how many times I have recommended a simple thing like using Firefox instead of IE. Most people simply click the ‘e’ icon. YOu say use another web browser and there is a look of horror and disgust on their face. They want their IE on their computer. Using anything other than the main stream app is just too rebelious.
One lady at work said. I don’t want to use “Modzilla”. Really very sad.
People complain about the insane cost of MS server products. getting people to even consider using anything but MS is like you just asked the impossible.
When I bought a Mac, some people asked me, “why would you do a thing like that?” Like I was crazy leaving the safe confines of the herd!
Yes, corel actually continue developing painter (Added new features, like better frame control and such things). Definitely a great app. I actually used it a lot on Windows to draw backgrounds for a 2D adventure video game. It was the perfect tool (with a wacom tablet). At the time it was Painter 4/5.
Linux is good for some things (such as servers) but it will not be a better desktop or even a programming OS anytime in the near future.
Dead wrong,
Linux or better all UNIX or derived had already compilers included when The mac was still good for painting porn pictures.Untill now with MacOSx it’s possible to do a little programming on the big mac.It’s the same as saying you can’t do so much graphically with a Mac.
“and you still dont get it. Assuming masc are up, the rest of the pc world is growing even more, and so the % of macs is lower. And thats what counts despite what you would like to believe.”
Umm.. I think you’re the one not getting it here.
You insist I do not get it when in fact my comment stated almost exactly what you stated when it comes to lower percentage points. HOWEVER, the percentage of Macs may be lower, but it does not mean that the NUMBER of Macs is lower because you must take into consideration the base number the percentage is derived from. I do not know the base numbers, nor do I care. A higher percentage does not automatically mean more or less of anything. You can’t be sure. You just plain cannot use broad percentages with no regard for the base numbers to justify your position that Apple is sinking and dying, etc.
No one is arguing that Macs have less market share than everything else. No one is pretending otherwise. What you don’t seem to understand is that just because Apple has been getting lower percentages does in no way necessarily mean that the company is selling less AS IT RELATES TO THEMSELVES. And from a business perspective, that’s all that really matters.
You seem to suffer from this notion that in order to be considered a success you must be at the top. Which is sad. I feel sorry for you.
I never said that you couldn’t do programming on Linux or that it was limited. I just prefer using OSX because the environment is better (and Cocoa is very good). Mac OS 9 and before were horrible at this but OSX is very different.
“In fact, Apple has several times as many developers writing software for OS X today than it did a few years ago. ”
In fact, you are a fan-boy. So how “few” can a few become at all by definition?! When did OSX appear in the first place..? And of that period, you are refering to the last few years, only… So, how many is that then – 0.5 years? – My friend, we are having a jolly good laugh over here.
The next good laugh is “exponential” growth of dev numbers.. now what is that supposed to mean?! Exponetial as in: in 2-4-8-16-32 or more like in 10-100-1000-10000
MEGA-LOOL, my friend. Stuff like this really shows why Apple can still sell machines and no matter what, will always continue to do so, even if not too many of them.
” In fact, you are a fan-boy. So how “few” can a few become at all by definition?! When did OSX appear in the first place..? And of that period, you are refering to the last few years, only… So, how many is that then – 0.5 years? – My friend, we are having a jolly good laugh over here.
The next good laugh is “exponential” growth of dev numbers.. now what is that supposed to mean?! Exponetial as in: in 2-4-8-16-32 or more like in 10-100-1000-10000
MEGA-LOOL, my friend. Stuff like this really shows why Apple can still sell machines and no matter what, will always continue to do so, even if not too many of them.”
Don’t worry, the party is almost over, and when the ipods will inevitably be squashed like a bug by all the others players (thanx to MS support) we’ll see the real value of the apple stock…
I am very tired somebody is confusing the words of “Apple” and “Mac”. It seems that the Apple is equal to Mac. No. At least now! The profits the current Apple Inc gained are from iPod, a kind of audio equipment. I am afraid how much of the profits can Apple Inc gain for her poor machine and OS.
Let me stress my point. Apple Inc., now, is a maker of the audio equipment instead of the computer. For such company, don’t waste our too much time on the OSnews.
Apple does not try and compete with MS. It tries to run a profitable business within an MS universe, and it is doing well. As long as Apple’s play nice with MS products and systems (and Linux for that matter) and the company is making good money (which it clearly is!), what is the problem.
I use Macs and I couldn’t care less about marketshare. I run MS Office and ported Linux software. As long as apple products work (and work better than the rest IMO) I will keep bying them. And so will all the other Mac users.
On a side note, the Apple market will always serve as a lucrative springboard for talented Software developers as they won’t compete with everyone else in MS land . I’m sure we can all think of a few companies that started that way…