Microsoft has released a 22 MB Windows Update through their web-based update utility that includes a recommended critical update, a cd-burning fix, a backwards compatibility fix for older Windows versions, and for the first time, Microsoft includes the .NET Framework runtime (20 MB alone – Japanese version also available), which allows users to run .NET applications. While the runtime was available for some time now through the .NET development page at Microsoft’s web pages, it is the first time they actually include it by default to the Windows Update, for large public consumption. Update: For the developers who would like to have a look or develop for the .NET Framework but do not own Visual Studio .NET, I would recommend to download the 137 MB of the SDK (which does not include an IDE or debugger, but the rest of the tools needed are there) and this free (GPL) IDE, SharpDevelop.
The .NET Era Starts Today for the End Users
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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Actually, it’s not included by ‘default’. You have to manually add the package to your list of downloads. It appears in the Windows general update category and is not a critical update. Ciao..
Of course and it is not a “critical” update. Your Windows won’t stop working or crash if you don’t install it. Microsoft posts downloads generally in three categories:
1. Development/betas. Not part of the Windows Update, but may be available for download on their perspective homepage at microsoft.com.
2. Fixes or updates of the system. Part of the Windows Update.
3. Critical security/fixes. Part of the Windows update. Enforced to download.
90% of the updates for Windows fall under No2. Which is where .NET runtime falls too. But for being in that category, Microsoft felt that it is the right time for larger public consumption.
Actually, I just updated and XP Professional system yesterday. And Microsoft is not recommending this for public consumption. The description of the package says that you should only install it if you need to run applications developed with the .NET framework.
Additionally, one of the components in the critical update package (or .NET) caused the system to bluescreen each time I booted it. I had to back out the update packages and I still haven’t determined which update is the culprit. Ahh… The joys of Windows XP. Updates that are supposed to fix problems with the OS end up rendering your system totally unbootable. Gotta love Windows…
<SARCASM>
Interesting, Simba, how you were blue-screening at bootup but yet you still managed to get through into the system somehow and roll-back the update!!??
That is a real good trick. Dave Cutler would be impressed, you should send him an email explaining how you were able to do this. Everyone should be able to log into a “system rendered totally unbootable” and fix it.
</SARCASM>
Try the SDK or buy Visual Studio.Net.
Go through the tuturial at the MSDN Web Site, it’s very cool!
Any OS (BeOS, MacOS X, Linux, Lindows, BSD, Solaris…) that implements .Net will soon have lots of desktop and web applications to run.
ciao
yc
Isn’t a so *NEW* tecnology and I still don’t find any use but MDDoS (Massive Distributed DoS)…
PS if your system is unbotable you can anyway insert the boot CD and reinstall everything, is that SO strange?
Simba get a GNU/linux distribution and just trash winXP.
Oh, please.
these are just flames from yc and lu_zero, let them both cool down
Do I get the hint of an MS Bias there Eugenia?
Do I get a hint of a bias *against* MS there Jeremy and Lu_Zero?
I would call myself realistic, not biased. If I was not realistic, I would still run BeNews, not OSNews.
It certainly seems to me that more and more “realistic” people are beginning to pop up, and, honestly, I could not be happier. It’s all part of the recovery from the massive hangover resulting from the asonishingly long-lived stint of monumental blind hype surrounding free software, which is thankfully now beginning to die down a bit. Personally, I was turned off from using Linux as my workstation platform as a result of the rabid community of youngsters so avidly, naively and endlessly lauding it without even proper understanding of it, of the need to make political issues over everything (almost always hurting themselves immeasurably as a result; read: KDE and GNOME), and, of course, of the incessantly bashing of Microsoft, all to often for no good reason. .NET is absolutely great; I’ve been playing around it for quite some time, and could not be more pleased with it. Let’s face it: Microsoft can make some damned good products if it’s pushed hard enough, and works off the proper inspiration.
>Actually, it’s not included by ‘default’.
It will be included on all new Windows XP CDs though …
And the SharpDevelop as the name suggests is only for C# coding … can’t do VB coding with this IDE.
On a side note, Microsoft released two compilers for C# — one that runs on Windows and the other than runs on FreeBSD. Interesting eh ?
>And the SharpDevelop as the name suggests is only for C# coding … can’t do VB coding with this IDE.
This is not true. #D supports C#, VB.NET, JScript and Java compilation – editing is supported for many more languages.
“Any OS (BeOS, MacOS X, Linux, Lindows, BSD, Solaris…) that implements .Net will soon have lots of desktop and web applications to run.”
Erhm – they might as well implement the Java VM, that way we’re certain that crossplatform compatibility will continue. You’re not with the C# current toolkit (which has windows specific extensions).
C# is only for people 101% committed to Windo$e.
we already have other similar implementation? just because is from M$?
Tao/Amiga DE has the same concept of CLI, Java has something to say too (and is a *bit* more mature), if you want skinnable language take the latest gcc, (and maybe you don’t have the limitation of C#skin)
so, AGAIN, what’s so cool? What’s so new?
The .NET SDK does include a debugger, in the SDK folder, GuiDebugDbgCLR.exe
>> they might as well implement the Java VM
I agree that both Java and C# deserve to be implemented. The customer can decide which one to install or both.
Sun is taking Microsoft to court AGAIN to force them to bundle Java, I think Sun should also be required to implement ECMA standard C# on Solaris and bundle it as well. It’s only fair.
ciao
yc
heh.
But seriously, it’s nothing really new, just another reinterpretation of JVM. And C# is only marginally better than Java. And if you ponder the disadvantage (M$), chances are it won’t take off.
I already saw some .NET books in the bargain shelf in Dataclub (biggest IT bookstore in Finland). That was fast!
woah there fella…take a breath.
oh and Eugenia. I have an XP box, a Debian box and a G4. I like to use them all. 🙂
anyhoo
NJM,
yeah, the kiddies are bad, but the people that use Linux to do actual work, i.e. 95% of the users, are very nice folks.
oh, and the MS bashing might get a littel far fetched, but from looking at their history, I would say that nothing could be left out. MS is a Monopoly. MS is an ABUSIVE monopoly as can be cited by the Findings of fact. Old habbits are hard to break, and in the case of companies, never do break unless the company goes out of business or the governnet steps in.
oh, and the reason you do not hear anymore Linux ype is becasue there is no more hype to Linux, it is a tested technology, that is getting deployed in almost every sector of the economy. you know, I am so glad the I do not hear that hype about flying anymore…it was anoying and I am glad that flying thing is on the down turn.
have a nice day.
“Any OS (BeOS, MacOS X, Linux, Lindows, BSD, Solaris…) that implements .Net will soon have lots of desktop and web applications to run.”
Any OS (BeOS, MacOS X, Linux, Lindows, BSD, Solaris…) that implements Java will NOW have lots of desktop and web applications to run
Actually, one of the nice things about .NET (it’s not just C# btw) is that the framework IS extendable. One example of this is the Mono project; they are adding support for Linux-specific functionality to their .NET implementation. You will be able to use Mono’s framework to develop software that takes advantage of Linux’s strengths, just like using Windows-specific features with Microsoft’s implementation.
If you are developing software for a specific platform, you are handicapping yourself by not taking advantage of that platform’s unique strengths. Supporting multiple platforms just isn’t important for some development.
.NET was actually designed to be extensible with platform-specific features, as compared to Java which homogenizes platforms with the Henry Ford approach (use any platform as long as you only use Java; use any language as long as its Java; etc). Sounds great for Sun since they control it, but not so great for other platform vendors, or for developers.
>Sounds great for Sun since they control it, but not so
>great for other platform vendors, or for developers.
Ahha, keeping up with 10 standards is good for developers??
Sun is a SINGLE set of features that work together, that’s what makes it easy to develop and run on several completely different platforms.
“Interesting, Simba, how you were blue-screening at bootup but yet you still managed to get through into the system somehow and roll-back the update!!??”
I managed to find the device that was causing the bluescreen and remove it. After that, I didn’t get bluescreens anymore. But I kept getting the “Windows has recovered from a serious error” message.
But in the configuration it was in before I did the update, it was totally unbootable. It would bluescreen as soon as it booted.
As always, the opinions expressed below are mine, and mine alone.
lu_zero: we already have other similar implementation? just because is from M$?
Tao/Amiga DE has the same concept of CLI, Java has something to say too (and is a *bit* more mature), if you want skinnable language take the latest gcc, (and maybe you don’t have the limitation of C#skin)
so, AGAIN, what’s so cool? What’s so new?
Cummon lu_zero, you’ve been around here for enough discussions to know what is new about .NET. There are two factors which make .NET a very desirable platform:
1) Performance – .NET is much faster than Java at (second) execution time.
2) Support – Microsoft will make .NET the standard. Which do you think there are more of, Linux apps, or Windows apps? Why do you think that is? The reason is that Microsoft spends billions of $US every year on making it so! Why do you think .NET will be any different? As for Sun, I just don’t think they have the software engineering infastructure to be able to compete in this arena. Sure, they have an OS and a multi-platform VM. What about apps? Can Sun even touch the capability of Microsoft to roll out applications pushing their platform? Of course they can’t, THEY’RE A HARDWARE COMPANY! There is something to be said for the established foothold of Java in the industry. In fact, I would go so far as to say that this is the only card Sun is currently holding.
So my take is this: if Sun can’t ante up, if they can’t improve both the performance of Java and it’s acceptance as a client application runtime on Windows, then in 5 years .NET will be more prominent in the marketplace than the JVM.
Simba: I managed to find the device that was causing the bluescreen and remove it. After that, I didn’t get bluescreens anymore. But I kept getting the “Windows has recovered from a serious error” message.
And you think this is a .NET problem? Sounds like buggy hardware to me
(or a buggy vendor driver, lord knows there are enough of those to go around!)
Actually, one of the nice things about .NET (it’s not just C# btw) is that the framework IS extendable. One example of this is the Mono project; they are adding support for Linux-specific functionality to their .NET implementation. You will be able to use Mono’s framework to develop software that takes advantage of Linux’s strengths, just like using Windows-specific features with Microsoft’s implementation.
Actually you can do this with Java as well. Apple does it for OSX and IBM did it for Eclipse. It’s called Java Native Interface (JNI). Nihilistic used this way back when to embed java into the game they were making (Vampire: Redmeption).
“And you think this is a .NET problem? Sounds like buggy hardware to me
(or a buggy vendor driver, lord knows there are enough of those to go around!)”
No. I don’t know if it was .NET or not. It was either that or it was something else in the critical updates package. Like I said, I haven’t been able to isolate which one caused the failure yet. But it worked fine before I did the update.
Actually, the device causing the problem was a wireless NIC. And said wireless NIC was using a Microsoft driver included with XP. So either way you look at it, it is still buggy Microsoft software that caused the problem. It’s either something in the update, or it is the Microsoft supplied wireless NIC driver.
The fact that it never did this until after the updates were isntalled leads me to believe that it is something in the critical updates or in the .NET framework that causes the problem.
Actually, the device causing the problem was a wireless NIC. And said wireless NIC was using a Microsoft driver included with XP. So either way you look at it, it is still buggy Microsoft software that caused the problem. It’s either something in the update, or it is the Microsoft supplied wireless NIC driver.
Unless MS developed the NIC itself, the driver was only certified by Microsoft, not developed by them. Of course, certified drivers usually work fine for most uses. I can’t think of why an update would suddenly cause bluescreens that are resolved by removing the NIC unless one of the updates was a NIC driver or something directly utilizing the NIC (which wouldn’t be the .Net framework). Of course, driver updates are usually listed separately from the ‘Critical Updates’, too. The only other thing that comes to mind is the NIC driver being incompatible with one of the security updates, but I don’t recall exactly how many security updates there were to the network stack in the last 6-8 months on WinXP.
The fact that it never did this until after the updates were isntalled leads me to believe that it is something in the critical updates or in the .NET framework that causes the problem.
The fact that removing the NIC caused the bluescreens to stop leads me to believe that it’s an interaction between the particular NIC (or it’s driver) and an update to the networking system. I can’t think of anything in the .Net framework that would be related to this sort of problem, and I’d think the best way to go would be to look for an updated NIC driver from the manufacturer, rather than using an WHQL driver (though those are generally the most compatable, I also find that they’re pretty far out of date in many cases, was there an update to the WHQL driver available as well?).
“The fact that it never did this until after the updates were isntalled leads me to believe that it is something in the critical updates or in the .NET framework that causes the problem.”
It did stop the bluescreen, but like I said, I still kept getting the “Windows has recovered from a serious error” message on each boot even after I removed the NIC. This problem didn’t go away until I backed out the updates.
I don’t think there was a WHQL update available. Or at least if there was, it wasn’t listed under the “Recommened updates” section.
If you don’t know anything about .NET, don’t open your mouth. .NET isn’t Java. It’s a lot more than Java. And no, I’m not “h4rdc0r3 4 M$!!!;” I don’t own any machines capable of running Windows other than a 486. Java itself isn’t anything new, just a over-hyper ultra-commercial version of the technologies we’ve had for 20-30 years, with plenty of cool stuff left out because it would confuse k-r4d h4x0rz. Or because Sun is dumb. Either way.
Unlike Java, .NET does something new- allows transparent cross-language interoperation. No, running Jython doesn’t do that. I can’t subclass a Jython class from within Java, or more importantly, one of the other languages that run on the JVM. They’re all almost as isolated as languages running with a C runtime are. However, I could do that in .NET, with no extra work. And call methods. Oi.
“1) Performance – .NET is much faster than Java at (second) execution time.”
I have to disagree with your statement as it’s written. .NET may be faster than Java when implementing Swing GUIs, but Java is faster on the server side and much more robust. It is in this arena that .NET is trying to go, not the desktop apps. There are more than capable tools out there for this type of programming already.
“2) Support – Microsoft will make .NET the standard. Which do you think there are more of, Linux apps, or Windows apps?”
No contest. There are far more Linux, Unix, *BSD apps out there than Windows apps.
“Why do you think that is?”
Because Unix has been around longer and is easier and more stable to program for than Windows is.
“So my take is this: if Sun can’t ante up, if they can’t improve both the performance of Java…”
Obviously not used or programmed with Java too much have you. Sun has made tremendous progress in Java’s speed. There are many applications and web sites that people are using everyday, which are programmed in Java. Most people don’t even know it. Why? Because Java is a mature, capable language.
“…and it’s acceptance as a client application runtime on Windows, then in 5 years .NET will be more prominent in the marketplace than the JVM.”
Why does Java need to be accepted as a Windows desktop, client application runtime? As I said before, we already have tools to make desktop applications. This space is already pretty static.
Java has its place and it is definitely in the enterprise arena. This is where .NET is aimed. If you think Microsoft made .NET so that people can continue to make custom desktop VB apps, then I’m afraid you are mistaken.
My favorite language by far is C. However, I have had need to do some Java programming at my last job and a lot of c# programming at my current one. While I think that c# is a really good language, I’m not that impressed with the .NET offerings. From a programming point of view, I find programming enterprise solutions in Java to be much cleaner and more robust than doing the same things in c#/.NET.
Amen, brother.
nothing to add.
Ok, theres clearly som stupid unenlightened remarks being fired here! – Please read your homework before babbling away…:
By RevAaron
“Unlike Java, .NET does something new- allows transparent cross-language interoperation. No, running Jython doesn’t do that. I can’t subclass a Jython class from within Java, or more importantly, one of the other languages that run on the JVM. They’re all almost as isolated as languages running with a C runtime are. However, I could do that in .NET, with no extra work. And call methods. Oi.”
No this is not as simple! – Since some of the languages .NET supports are OO and others aren’t there are A LOT of incompatibilities, that you’re forced to calculate with, when choosing languages… – it’s all on MSDN, can’t recall where though :/
By TaCo[fungi]
“Cummon lu_zero, you’ve been around here for enough discussions to know what is new about .NET. There are two factors which make .NET a very desirable platform:
1) Performance – .NET is much faster than Java at (second) execution time. ”
No, this isn’t entirely true either. This has been discussed in a previous thread (which you obviously haven’t read
).
Since CLR is compiled (just as java), they both start of at somewhat the same speed. However, M$ has decided that the compiled lines should be saved on disk, for faster start up time. This is all nice, however by doing so they loose all of the advantages of runtime profiling and optimization. Thus in the worst case scenario where the user continually keeps running codepath A, and then suddenly starts using codepath B, compiled code will suck (relatively) – this is where Hotspot compilation will shine. However if the user _*always*_ uses codepath A, he will ofcourse benefit from the precompiled code… – but this is quite rare.
/Brian Matzon
“Unlike Java, .NET does something new- allows transparent cross-language interoperation…
…However, I could do that in .NET, with no extra work. And call methods. Oi.”
I’m not denying that there is cross-language interoperation between C# and VB, but that’s about it. VC++ is a bugger to get to work with these other languages.
My question is why the heck (taking into account your clergy-ness) is this desirable? Nowhere I’ve ever worked allows a team to program in whatever language they want. There are standards and I don’t see that changing.
I am a dev manager at my company. If I want C# developers, I hire them. I don’t even consider VB developers. If I want Java developers, I get them. I do NOT want some freak COBOL programmer to come in and write .NET crap in COBOL. This seems like a nightmare for whovever has to maintain code, fix bugs, etc.
If .NET’s biggest strength is this cross-language compatibility, I’m not impressed.
We’ve had this discussion before Brian, and I mostly agree with you, but I am skeptical that the codepath optimization that HotSpot does is going to offer a really big performance increase over non-optimized regularly compiled code (like .NET).
HotSpot will be faster (after compilation), yes, but I need to be convinced that it will be a whole lot faster.
so why Ohhh why does it run in a VM?
So how does .NET’s memory overhead compare with Tao’s?
“HotSpot will be faster (after compilation), yes, but I need to be convinced that it will be a whole lot faster.”
Can’t give you any numbers :/ Logically, hotspot *will* be faster, but as for *how* much I really haven’t got a clue – I would guess that worst case scenario would be really bad for .NET, and best case would be unnoticable performance…
/matzon