After years of relative quiet, both Microsoft and Apple are frenetically working on major new upgrades to the base software that run the personal computers of tens of millions of business and consumer users. Microsoft is using the code name Longhorn to refer to its next upgrade to the Windows operating system. Apple, keeping the theme of naming its operating system software after big and fast cats, calls its next release Tiger.
Apple, Microsoft prepare for war with new systems
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“Longhorn will be the first major Microsoft upgrade since Windows XP hit computer hard drives in 2001. That’s light-years in the world of personal computers, and much has changed in that time”
A tech writer for a major newspaper and he fails to note that MS has released the following since October 2001:
XP Service pack 1 and 2 (free updates)
XP Tablet PC editions
XP Media Center Editions
and now XP x64 has also gone gold master as well (free for current 32 bit license holders that also own a 64 bit cpu).
All of that is pretty major. Does Apple have a Tablet OS? A Media Center OS? A fully 64 bit OS? The answer is no to each.
Well the difference is that Tiger is just over the horizon, and in the case of Longhorn the horizon is still over the horizon. Which would be important if they, as operating systems, were in direct competition, which they’re not.
http://bitsofnews.com
>>Does Apple have a Tablet OS?
No, but they have the best laptop around bar none. Why would they need one anyway sales on them aren’t exactly stellar to bother with.
>> A Media Center OS?
ROFLMAO! MacOS’s ARE media centric. All WinMedia OS is is a tv card and MS Media Player.
>>A fully 64 bit OS?
Yes, since they released Mac computers that ship with the G5 their os has been 64bit. Windows is the one that’s way behind.
Aside from the Service Packs, the other MS offerings are for niche markets. So they are not as productive as you would like to think. However, the Apple releases are geared to the entire OSX customer base. When Apple first released OSX code, it was clumsily written, requiring brute force for the OS to operate at a respectable rate. Now you are starting to see a refined OS that works well on older hardware. Since there were no security holes, Apple could get away with charging $100+ to fix these flaws. MS, on the other hand, had to provide the major updates for free as they are in the midst of alienating their customer base by means of glaring security holes.
I wasn’t positive if “frenetically” was the right word, so I looked it up. One of the definitions seemed amusingly accurate in this context:
frenetically
adv : in a very agitated manner; as if possessed by an evil spirit [syn: demoniacally]
MS and Apple both, at times, seemed to be possessed by an evil spirit. *chuckle*
Tablet OS
Not much of a commercial success and most OEMs are having
a hard time selling these devices.
Media Center OS
Faring a wee bit better than the Tablet OS. For now because
of lack of content it hasn’t taken off. Apple can still join this
market space with Tiger, Quicktime 7 and better compression technologies like H.264/AVC .
Fully 64-bit OS
The only fully 64 bit OS I’m aware of is Tru64 from DEC.
Even Irix which had 64bit for years has many libraries that
are n32. You assume Windows 64 is 100% 64bit? Get real.
What ever happened to the much touted WinFS system?
Fact is for now Tiger is ahead of the curve and I’ll reserve judgement
till Longhorn comes out. Longhorn has some promising technology
but I’ll have to see how much of it is delivered and how much of it is
vaporware. Still waiting for pervasive speech recognition to be available
on Windows systems, which Bill Gates said they would have back in Mar 1992.
If you look up the Byte article page 26. Under the Nanobytes section he said
it would be available this year….Its the year 2005 just in case you haven’t noticed.
OS X is not 64 bits in fact. And Tiger won’t be fully 64 bits, and that’s not really important for the desktop market to what the article seems to refer.
I didn’t RTFA, but why is there even a comparison of the two. When longhorn comes out we will probably be awaiting the next osx upgrade or may well already have it. Comparing Tiger and Longhorn is stupid.
Also, any of the OSX upgrades isn’t really as much of an overhaul as XP -> Longhorn. Maybe the jump from 10.1 (lets pretend 10.0 never happened) to 10.4, but Microsoft does bigger but less common upgrades, where the upgrade from Panther to Tiger is a much smaller jump.
The “missed” items you point out obviously don’t meet the requirements of the OP for their definition of _major upgrade_.
I would tend to agree that they don’t count either in this context because they either don’t apply to mainstream users (desktop/laptop), or they’re not “new” OSes (usually most identified by a significant change to the GUI, for those of us who are somewhat shallow ;P )
The tablet OS, good or bad, doesn’t really apply because tablet sales are barely measurable compared to PC and laptop sales.
Media Center edition also doesn’t really count either because it’s not high volume (yet?).
Service packs don’t count because arguably they’re just fixing problems or failings of the current OS.
64-bit version (which isn’t officially release status yet) doesn’t count because it’s not a new OS, just a modification of the existing OS to allow it to take advantage of new 64bit CPUs.
The writer didn’t say that MS has been doing nothing. The writer said they haven’t made any major upgrades (as in, new OS version).
How is it a “war” when one side owns some 90 to 95% of the market? I like XP and Mac OSX. I own both, as well as Apple stock. So in case anyone wanted to start with some “fanboy” insults, save it.
My point is not which is the better OS. That’s for the user to decide. But I think they are preparing for war is overstating it a little. Apple wins IMO as far as “user friendlyness” goes but obviously that isn’t enough to really challenge Microsoft yet. For Apple to gain more of the market share, they need to port OSX to the x86 platform. Millions of people ARE NOT just going to drop their PC’s and flock to Apple. They should make it so millions of people don’t have to:)
“XP Service pack 1 and 2 (free updates)”
let’s see, we’re expecting the 9th FREE update this year… Granted, the updates are not as ‘significant’ as the Win Serv Packs, but they prove a commitment by the OS developers to actually keep on improving.
“XP Tablet PC editions”
I see that the Tablet PCs have been h so popular (sarc).I guess you haven’t heard of Ink Well? Try it w/a Wacom.
“XP Media Center Editions”
OS X is built for multimedia, not just tagged on…
“and now XP x64 has also gone gold master as well (free for current 32 bit license holders that also own a 64 bit cpu).”
She no count… it ain’t out and OS 10.3.x is… with both 64 & 32 bit extensions…
Windows is so far ahead they look like they’re behind! Yeah, right. You figure with the amount of resources that MS has they could knock off a project within a year! Oh, they’re so big they can’t??? Fire the excess baggage and get lean… oh yeah, the management couldn’t deal with it.
All IMHO
Jb
For it to be a viable war of the OS’es in terms of market share, OS X would need to be incredibly compelling to increase market share of existing Windows users. With the availability of relatively cheap Macs and comparable OS prices, there are a couple of things that are more costly to deal with than replacing machines. These things are:
1. Training the users to use new software (not just the OS GUI)
2. Replacing all the software that’s currently used, which also includes transferring and translating data from its current file formats. Not all data or software on one platform can be 100% reproduced on the other platform, regardless of which direction you’re going in.
For anyone that uses a lot of software they’ve purchased, the direct hardware and the OS costs may actually be the cheaper things in such a transition. Thus, to make such a transition worthwhile, there needs to be a sufficient ROI to go through all the hassle. The thing that makes that unlikely is that XP is sufficient for most people and their tasks, even if not ideal, and OS X likewise. Thus, there is a huge amount of inertia to overcome to convince people to change in either direction.
I don’t think Longhorn will be anything great, yes they could have some tricks up their sleeve, but I doubt it.
More importantly, PC users will get enough new features to keep them happy, even though OS X will probably be more advanced at that point.
I think what Microsoft is aiming at mostly is keeping developers interested. Avalon and Indigo, basically the only major new features that haven’t been dropped, are aimed squarely at developers. I think Microsoft realized that their framework (Win32 and MFC) sucked so horribly in comparison to competitors that they were starting to lose developers.
As one of the KDE devs said, a project wouldn’t last a day without developers, but would continue without users. This got people all fired up, but he’s right. The trick is, if there are developers, there will never be a lack of users. If enough people are coding cool new apps for a platform, a lot of people will use that platform, so it is critically important to attract developers.
It’s easy to laugh about Ballmer dancing like a monkey in a sweat stained shirt shouting “developers developers developers!” but he understands this point. Without developer interest, any platform is doomed.
*sigh*…. this has been mentioned many a time on this site…
OSX currently is NOT fully 64 bit. It has a few tweaks so it can take advantage of the extra RAM and that’s about it.
Note that for it to be 64-bit, there’d have to be a completely different version for G4’s and G5’s.
Apparently Tiger is going to actually be 64 bit, but we’ll see when that comes out – has to be better than XP 64-bit which has been in beta for possibly years now.
saha: The only fully 64 bit OS I’m aware of is Tru64 from DEC.
Linux on AMD64?
“Longhorn will be the first major Microsoft upgrade since Windows XP hit computer hard drives in 2001. That’s light-years in the world of personal computers, and much has changed in that time”
I’d discount what “Chanman’s” alleged tech writer said on credibility grounds: What kinda geek can’t tell the difference between a distance measure and a time measure?
Aren’t they partners ? I mean, M$ doesn’t own stock shares from Apple ? are they really competition today ?
You all keep comparing OSX to Media Center Edition, saying that OSX is built for multimedia….
I’m sorry, but it is NOT. It’s not the same thing at all. OSX does not have that front end that MCE has, which allows you to even use MCE on a set top box, or have things like media center extenders, etc…
Just because TabletPC has been a slow starter does not mean it is inferior. I have yet to find anything even comparable to the functionality, the problem is the hardware is just so expensive.
All of that is pretty major. Does Apple have a Tablet OS? A Media Center OS? A fully 64 bit OS? The answer is no to each.
Do you even know the benefits of a 64 bit os? For microsoft releasing a 64 bit version is a huge deal. x86 has been held back by a the fact that it had so few general purpose registers(less registers means more fetches to memory). 8 if I remember correctly. X86-64 doesn’t have to keep binary compatability while executing in 64 bit mode and that allowed amd to add some much needed general purpose registers to the OS. This is where the performance comes from and not so much the fact that is is 64 bit. Almost no apps right are available in 64 bit forms as of right now anyway.
Apple on the otherhand has a processor that actually has a reasonable amount of registers on their powerpc an architecture that was designed to 64 or 32 bit. Apple has much less to gain from going completely 64 bit. Things that benefit will be written to execute in 64 bit mode and things that won’t benefit will just run in 32 bit mode. Example math libraries that benefit from 64 bit floating point will use it if it’s available.
It’s not fair to compare apples to oranges, if x86 were a saner architecture the boost from x86 to x86-64 would be close to nill.
“64-bit version (which isn’t officially release status yet)”
No, its gold master and released to manufacturing. See http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?id=27712&category=main
“Apparently Tiger is going to actually be 64 bit, but we’ll see when that comes out”
Nope, Tiger won’t be either. See http://osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=9220
“In the new article “Developing 64-bit Applications” of the “Tiger Developer Overview Series” published on ADC, Apple states that the Cocoa and Carbon GUI application frameworks will not be ready for 64-bit programming. Even the kernel will be compiled in 32-bit address mode and will be provided in only one version for all the machines. The only 64-bit system framework which will be provided in a “fat” format will be libSystem which command-line applications, servers and computation engines will be linkable to. The 32-bit GUI clients will be capable however to communicate with the 64-bit server processes by using several IPC techniques.”
And of course, MS has had both XP and Server 2003 in 64 bit for years on the less used Itanium platform.
For those that want to try to belittle the two platforms because they don’t sell tens of millions of units per year, we could just as easily say the same thing about Macs only selling 3-4 million units per year. Truth is that MCE is now selling very well that it has been opened up to all OEM makers. Since October it has sold over a million units.
And having iPhoto, iDVD, iMovie, iTunes, and Quicktime doesn’t compare very well with a MCE box that also has iTunes, Quicktime, Windows Media Player, Windows Movie maker, Nero or EZ CD/DVD Creator, Powerdvd or Windvd, the MCE GUI, a remote, tv tuning, fm tuning, PVR functions, 5.1 and up sound, etc.
When you can get all of the following for $749, the Mini and other low end Macs look pretty weak http://pcversusmac.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=290
“$749 media center 2005 gateway 812GM pc
17″ flat screen crt vx750 (1280×1024 max res)
canon inkjet ip1500
athlon 64 3200+
512mb pc3200 ddr ram
160gb western digital sata 7200rpm hd
AVerMedia M-150 TV Tuner Card and remote
16x nec ND-3500A/EML dual layer and dual format dvd burner
8 in 1 card reader
128mb nvidia fx5200 video card w/ tv out and dvi
nforce 5.1 sound
7 usb 2 ports
2 firewire ports
56k modem
10/100 nic
1 parallel port
1 serial port
2 ps/2 ports
3 pci slots (1 open)
premium stereo speakers
keyboard and mouse
ms works
ms windows xp media center 2005 edition
1 yr warranty”
You all keep comparing OSX to Media Center Edition, saying that OSX is built for multimedia….
I’m sorry, but it is NOT. It’s not the same thing at all. OSX does not have that front end that MCE has, which allows you to even use MCE on a set top box, or have things like media center extenders, etc…
OS X is for multimedia. It is the main reason for me moving to the Mac side. It’s latency and media support is astonishing, with a massive professional following. If your only comparison is a measly interface, than that is unfortunate.
Logic, Final Cut Pro, and DVD Studio Pro are just a few multimedia applications I use to create final products. Coupled with Illustrator and Photoshop, it has the best bang for the buck IMO. But, according to your analysis, Mac OS X is not for multimedia.
I think what you should have said was that it is not designed to be a set-top-box, which it isn’t out of the box. Adding EyeTV to a Mac Mini would counter this argument, but it would require the consumer to add additional components, thus disqualifying it as a prebuilt set-top-box.
“And having iPhoto, iDVD, iMovie, iTunes, and Quicktime doesn’t compare very well with a MCE box that also has iTunes, Quicktime, Windows Media Player, Windows Movie maker, Nero or EZ CD/DVD Creator, Powerdvd or Windvd, the MCE GUI”
Windows Movie Maker? You’ve got to be kidding me. EZ CD/DVD Creator? That crap can’t hold a candle to the iLife suite. Obvioulsy, you’ve never even used a Mac or any of the outstanding Apple software. You’re just blowing smoke.
Aren’t they partners ? I mean, M$ doesn’t own stock shares from Apple ? are they really competition today ?
This has been a long-dispelled myth, and I wonder if you might already know that, but asked anyways.
Microsoft bought $150 million in non-voting stock in the mid-late 1990s as a show of faith in Apple, and to help show the US DOJ that it was fostering competition in the marketplace.
Microsoft sold that stock as soon after as they could, at a very handsome profit.
This has been a dead subject for the better part of a decade.
I’d discount what “Chanman’s” alleged tech writer said on credibility grounds: What kinda geek can’t tell the difference between a distance measure and a time measure?
Giving the author the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he desired to use a distance analogy? As in, “George is miles behind Tom in the race.” Also, if you want to get geeky and technical, time and space are arguably the same thing.
Microsoft sold that stock as soon after as they could, at a very handsome profit. This has been a dead subject for the better part of a decade.
____________________________________________________________
Actually they sold it as a loss. However, buying Apple stock and keeping them afloat showed that their is competetion in the market. What everyone outside the courts, doj and so on know is that Apple and MS have different market segments. They don’t typcially compete for the same customers.
Apple = Hardware company that sells software
MS = Software company
The benefit of 8bit vs 16 bit vs 32 bit vs 64 bit is:
The ability to access more memory.
CPU speed (transactions per second) has nothing to do with how many bits it can access. So … the speed up is being able to have enough RAM to keep as much data in memory as possible so you don’t have to keep shuffling data back and forth between “stored memory” and “active memory”. THAT is the benefit of 64 bit over 32.
Mac OS X has this and so will Window XP 64.
“Windows Movie Maker? You’ve got to be kidding me. EZ CD/DVD Creator? That crap can’t hold a candle to the iLife suite. Obvioulsy, you’ve never even used a Mac or any of the outstanding Apple software. You’re just blowing smoke.”
Sorry, not blowing smoke. I own multiple Macs and Windows PCs, including an MCE box. And yes, Roxio’s EZ CD/DVD creator and Nero Suite are not duplicated by any built in Mac program. Go buy Toast if you want some real flexibility when working with cds and dvds. You however, jumping to conclusions have clearly not used or read much about the comparisons between iMovie and WMM for instance. Most reviewers give both of them top marks. In the case of WMM, its free. In the case of iMovie 4 or 5, it cost $49 or $79. With that kind of money I certainly could go buy a basic video app from Adobe or Pinnnacle if WMM doesn’t cut it for my needs. As for things like Garageband, a very cool app, it has limited appeal to most users. I’d much rather have 5.1 sound than Garageband.
Since it’s taking so long to get here. Apple’s more or less stuck to their deadlines, while MS is constantly going back to the drawing board.
I agree with the critics: Longhorn’s going to be a tough sell to non-corporate customers, particularly due to it’s (constantly changing) hardware requirements. Apple meanwhile would have to really drop the ball to screw up its momentum!
If rumors are true, Tiger may be sent to the duplicators as soon as tomorrow, and even if the rumors are not accurate, they’re still more ‘on the ball’ than MS has been in years: Record sales, quality boxes, and a great OS. It’s good to be Apple right now! 8)=
first kn*cklehead up:
” XP Service pack 1 and 2 (free updates)
XP Tablet PC editions
XP Media Center Editions
and now XP x64 has also gone gold master as well (free for current 32 bit license holders that also own a 64 bit cpu).
All of that is pretty major. Does Apple have a Tablet OS? A Media Center OS? A fully 64 bit OS? The answer is no to each. ”
can it get worse? yes…oh yes
[QUOTE]
Microsoft sold that stock as soon after as they could, at a very handsome profit.
This has been a dead subject for the better part of a decade.[/QUOTE]
Where exactly is your proof for this? I know people mention it on forums all the time, but I have yet to see someone show a source where this information comes from. I’ll believe it when I see it.
Hey, aren’t you that troll who used to saturate every Mac news item with needless comparisons to x86 boxes?
Glad you found a pseudonym :-). Now if you’d only find a life….
What a list of “innovations:”
XP Service pack 1 and 2 (free updates)
XP Tablet PC editions
XP Media Center Editions
and now XP x64 has also gone gold master as well (free for current 32 bit license holders that also own a 64 bit cpu).
1. Service packs are bug fixes. Trust me you don’t want to brag about MS “upgrading” XP to be (moderately) secure
2. How many Tablet PC’s were sold? They’re giving them away for cost nowadays if you can buy at volume
3. True.
4. 64 bit was left on the back burner for years since MSFT didn’t want to disturb its comfy relationship with Intel. AMD was furious. But MS got serious when Apple was once again going to beat them to the punch.
MS does many things well, but innovation and speed-to-market simply is not one of them. And this is not MS bashing.
Their core market it CIO’s who don’t want a lot of change, tend to upgrade slowly since it is more important to them to have everything running.
And MS solves this need. And there is NOTHING wrong with that. In fact, it has made a ton of money for MS.
But what is sad is how the MS Apologists who won’t let MS not be everything to everyone. It’s like when Dell tried to position themselves as an innovator, when they clearly are not.
Yes, MS comes up with some good ideas. But they are incremental. This is typical for big players in an industry with a huge installed base who demand reliability.
The little players are fast and innovative.
Every industry is this way, including tech. It is time for Dell, Microsoft, and their fans to accept their role in the industry. And there is nothing wrong with that role, it’s just never going to be as “cool” as open source and Apple.
Sorry Chanman, but making outrageous claims just hurts the more reasonable arguments you make:
1. iLife has no peers. Even the PC media agrees.
2. Saying you can go buy a better program if you want more power is not a good argument. You list programs, some in the thousands of dollars, which are available on both platforms.
3. The best pro media applications are on the Mac platform, exclusively. Yes, the Avid stuff is good, but real pros use the Apple Pro suite.
Don’t over-reach, and you’ll be fine.
Don’t bother responding to ChanMan, all he does is post flame bait. If you post anything even mildly constructive in response he’ll just ignore it and instead pick up on others with ‘weaker’ arguments. The whole thread degenerates into HIS thread, no-one learns anything and people start skipping over the replies.
Just ignore him, people make different choices. So what.
Matt
The idea that Apple and Microsoft have had “years of relative quiet” is wrong in the first place. Both companies have been very busy with their OS’s.
While boxed versions of iLife do cost money, it comes free with all macs sold, so when you get your computer and need a decent consumer media suite, it isn’t like adding an additional cost (as with Adobe products, etc).
As mentioned, there are plenty of 3rd party options to make a mac into a media center/set top, but not something prepackaged by apple. I will say that with a little time invested and a 20 dollar svideo adaptor, my mac mini makes one hell of a myth front end, mame, etc box to go with my tv.
Also, apple doesn’t have a tablet edition os since there isn’t any mac tablet hardware. It’s something of a silly comparison. In any case, mac os x has had robust handwriting recognition since 10.2, so support is there in the OS whenever they feel the time is right to actually make a tablet.
Have these applications, which are also available on Windows for the most part (if not, there are others that are just as good or better, also available on both platforms) does not make it a media OS.
My point was that it doesn’t have the set-top appeal that MCE has.
Let’s see:
Tiger vs Longhorn
Reality vs Myth
Fact vs Fiction
Concrete vs Vapor
Nah, that’s way too harsh.
However, Tiger is feature complete and days away from release and Longhorn is still mostly hype and doesn’t have a delivery date. By the time Longhorn comes out, Tiger will probably have had a major update or two.
The thought that there’s a war on is too cool, though. Panther is so far beyond XP in most regards that it seems hardly conceivable that Longhorn will be up to the task of taking on Tiger, if it even comes out before Apple’s next version. But competition fuels innovation, if Longhorn is remotely competitive, it should spawn some truly cool tech. Also, the ‘war’ makes great press for the little Apple that could.
Weren’t they comparing Panther to Longhorn this time two years ago? Longhorn is what… 6-9 months away at best? Don’t get me wrong, I run VPC on my mac; I have to. But seriously, you can’t honestly defend microsoft and look at yourself with any pride. Their programs are complete bloatware. The first thing I do when installing windows is install firefox then uninstall every extra piece of crap I can.
“Sorry, not blowing smoke. I own multiple Macs and Windows PCs, including an MCE box. And yes, Roxio’s EZ CD/DVD creator and Nero Suite are not duplicated by any built in Mac program…”
My comments stand. You’re still a chump and you’re still blowing smoke. NOTHING on the Windows side has anything close to iLife. Period.
Actually there are plenty of alternatives to iLife that are better. They just cost a lot more than $79.00 like Adobe Photoshop Elements, Album and Premiere Elements. All of these are as good or better than iPhoto and iMovie.
Does anyone know of a DVD authoring program like iDVD and Garageband for the PC?
have gotten their panties bunched up and are now resorting to name calling and a too strong defensiveness that must mean they have something to be defensive about.
Hey, my original post was directed at an author of a poorly written article that neglects 3 years of work that MS has done. MS hasn’t been sitting on their asses for three years. They have released numerous OSes and dozens of new features. If it irks you so bad that you had to pay $129 for X near annually, $99 for .mac annually, $30 for a full screen Quicktime, and now $79 for your iLife suite (on top of the $49 you paid for the last version), don’t blame me and start calling me names.
Meanwhile on the MS side they have given service packs, a free upgrade to a new 64 bit version of XP, and lots of nice add ons to the OS all free. MSN Spaces, new versions of MSN Messenger, new Windows Media Player, new Windows Movie Maker, new DirectX, a Pop Up blocker, MS Anti-Spyware, Lookout, MSN Desktop Search, Photostory 3, and on and on.
What exactly is Garageband? Just a midi program?
If so, then yeah, Cakewalk is the dominant, I’d say, and probably better.
Thats the whole Point! Cakewalk ain’t free with your new PC.
I think that’s why Macs cost a few hundred dollars more than more powerful PCs. iLife ain’t free if the machine costs an arm and a leg more than a competing PC. If you want to have any of the applications that are in the iLife suite and your PC didn’t come with something, you can use some of the money you saved buying something like Cakewalk, Acid, Adobe Photoshop Elements or Premiere, or whatever. If you want to save the money, you can pick from any number of freeware and opensource programs like Acid Express, the Gimp, Picasa, or whatever.
Does anyone think that Microsoft would be responsive to the market without competition from Linux and Apple? If Apple keeps up the great work and Linux keeps stealing enterprise and desktop market share, it can only make Microsoft more timely about releasing better software. What would the ship date be for Longhorn be if Linux and Apple were not snapping at their heals? Microsoft needs someone to copy its software ideas from.
I don’t think so. MS won the OS wars a long time ago. Apple serves a niche of users and professionals albeit a profitable niche that is growing but not at the expense that it is hurting Microsoft.
I think Microsoft’s issues are with Linux actually and how it is working its way down from supercomputers and up from embedded systems. It is taking the initiative that MS has taken in the past with Windows everywhere. Apple does not have these aspirations with MacOSX the way I see it.
Comparing Tiger and Longhorn doesn’t make sense since 10.5 will be out when Longdrawn comes around.
Coming from a neutral corner, I find your posting highly contradictory.
It’s very clear you hate the Mac platform yet you claim you own multiple Mac. You have nothing nice to say abt the Mac platform
If I hate Toyato I would not be owning them. If I have them I would sell them off.
Are you some kind of masochist ???
“MS hasn’t been sitting on their asses for three years. ”
Really? Every other week we’re hearing how MS is dropping this feature and that features and so on from Longhorn. SP2 is their proudest achievement in the last few years. Catching up with Firefox’s pop-blocking feature and others is something to brag about? This is the largest software company in the world, and they have to keep up with a much smaller company who’s primary focus is hardware.
This is not from a Mac kid, this is from somebody who thinks you’ve got an overly optimistic view of Microsoft. With the vast resources they have, they could and should have done much more than they’ve done.
I’m sorry, but the ONLY feature that has been ‘dropped’ from Longhorn is WinFS, which will, however, be available by the time Server ships.
CM, how many people have had to tell you that SP2 isn’t a bonus free OS release from microsoft as a gift to humanity?? SP2 had to be released as a giant security patch because windows OSes lack basic modern os features like user priv. seperation and a firewall, not to mention they were losing customers due to glaring security Chasms (hole is too light a term).
What will it take for you people to get that a Media Set Top Box is NOT THE SAME as a Media Production and Authoring Platform?? In fact I would say they are complete opposites !!!!
One is for HOME USERS and CONSUMERS and the other is for ARTISTS and MEDIA PROFESSIONALS!! Can you guess which is which?
I don’t think we can talk about war between Longhorn and Tiger. They run on different hardware maybe we have a Windows vs Linux or OSX vs Linux war because they run on the same hardware. Most people won’t give away their cheap x86 hardware only because MacOS X is better. That’s not going to happen. Maybe if we had a x86 version of MacOS it could be different but with OSX running only on PPC would be Linux who could win a OS war with Windows, but not MacOS.
On Tablet PC, Media Center PC: Well sold, badly sold… They’ve got the technology. A desktop computer with Mac OS is something else. It’s just like a normal PC. Pretending that Quicktime equals or compares is not knowing about a Media Center PC. These are different purposes. Please read more about it.
Laptops are not equal to Tablet PC’s. Again, please read more about it. Apple doesn’t have anything like a Tablet PC. Period. What can you possibly argue about it?
The argument is: have you got that technology available? Can you buy it? That’s all.
Can you? No. so, please be quiet.
And finally: Longhorn is not a year and a half away because Micrososft is a loser. It’s because they are winners. Can you argue against it. No.
Longhorn is way more than features. Tiger is more like it. Longhorn is an OS written from the ground up: .Net, all the Foundation architecture, Avalon, Indigo, WinFS, etc., are technologies that will change the way we undestand computing. Not features.
Please don’t write out of your guts alone. Read, compare. Be cold. And think a little more before you write.
It’s not so easy to hit Longhorn. It will be damn hard to beat, that’s for shure.
“And finally: Longhorn is not a year and a half away because Micrososft is a loser. It’s because they are winners. Can you argue against it. No.
Longhorn is way more than features. Tiger is more like it. Longhorn is an OS written from the ground up: .Net, all the Foundation architecture, Avalon, Indigo, WinFS, etc., are technologies that will change the way we undestand computing. Not features.”
For a moment a was thinkng “wow, this guy is on crack.” then I remembered that it’s April 1st.
..the ‘written from the ground up’ part gave him away.
I predict Apple will have to invent new members of the big cat family before Longhorn hits the streets:) Or make a move towards smaller cats. Feline Domesticus? I would love Mac OS X Garfield:)
“I’m sorry, but the ONLY feature that has been ‘dropped’ from Longhorn is WinFS, which will, however, be available by the time Server ships.”
Yeah, and meanwhile Spotlight and Beagle are already here. I know you’re a Windows fanatic CPUguy, but try to not to foam at the mouth when the topic of Longhorn comes up. Microsoft will do what they what they always do. Deliver a product late that’s incomplete because the boneheads at the top are in too big a hurry.
“Deliver a product late that’s incomplete because the boneheads at the top are in too big a hurry.”
It’s going to be late because they’re in a hurry?
OK.
So because I’m stating a FACT about Longhorn, all of a sudden I’m a fanatic?
Do us all a favor and try to think for yourself.
I’ll get a mac when it’s not in the thousands range and the only affordable one is not a small ”pretty” machine with so-so hardware .
Nikkie, either you are trolling or you haven’t looked at the Apple hardware line to closely.
An iBook is fantastic. Under a grand.
The Mac mini is also great, at 700 bucks with the correct amount of memory.
As long as you are not doing video or audio editing, either will fit the bill. And if you are doing that, no Windows machine under a grand is that good for it either.
“Nikkie, either you are trolling or you haven’t looked at the Apple hardware line to closely.
An iBook is fantastic. Under a grand.
The Mac mini is also great, at 700 bucks with the correct amount of memory.
As long as you are not doing video or audio editing, either will fit the bill. And if you are doing that, no Windows machine under a grand is that good for it either.”
This thread alone has a link to a machine for $749 that does video and audio just great. If you are talking under $1000, with the extra $250 one could add more memory or a better video card or a better sound card. Its difficult if not impossible to add those to iBooks and Mini’s.
http://pcnmac.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=290&sid=0c8fe04bda5ec2d669… to get similar specs in a Mac one has to spend more than $1500 on an iMac or base G5 tower (they both will still have a slower CPU, half the memory, smaller hard drives, slower dvd burner, no native 5.1 sound…
Nikki seems to be dead on the money when you have to spend more than 2x as much to get similar power.
“Nikki seems to be dead on the money when you have to spend more than 2x as much to get similar power.”
I don’t even think Nikki mentioned spending $1500. She said under a thousand which Apple does sell at that price point.
As far as the so so hardware the Mini has higher or the same specs as Macs that hav shipped in the past.
1.25GHZ G4 does not equal 1.2 GHZ PC. On the PC side this is a useless nonexistant configuration as far as P4s go. Even 2+GHZ Celerons can hardly run XPHome. Video editing on a Celeron?
Athlons and Durons are exceptions but the mini was never made as a DIY computer and the mini has had many positive review from PC oriented magazines, websites and editors.
This thing about the Mini being useless is a dead and dumb subject.
http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/000594.html
“1.25GHZ G4 does not equal 1.2 GHZ PC. On the PC side this is a useless nonexistant configuration as far as P4s go. Even 2+GHZ Celerons can hardly run XPHome. Video editing on a Celeron?”
PCs that cost $350 now ship with 2.9GHz Celeron’s, with a 533MHz bus. So for video editing, it certainly isn’t a pro solution, but neither is a Mini or an iBook. All three will handle hobbyist editing with satisfaction, but a Mac with just 256MB ram, a 1.25GHz years old G4, and super slow bus will do worse.
But the $750 PC linked to above doesn’t have a Celeron, it has an Athlon 64 3200+ with 512MB RAM and a 128MB video card (and SATA hard drive). To get that kind of power you have to spend 2x as much for a Mac and it still won’t have a 128MB video card, will only have half the memory, won’t have a tv tuner, etc.
Neither XP or Apple (cat name insert here for OS) are propper 64 bit yet. Apple is the worse offender, thier newest version when it hits the shelf has only added some newer 64bit libarys and major ones we were all promised were ‘removed’ for now… Maybe the next Jobs effort should be called the ‘missing moggy?’. XP is 64bit, not bad for a first time effort and perhaps the reason it took so long to come to market. True it still has some 32bit code (its comes with both 32/64 bit bersions of IE for example). The 64bit slight of had that APPLE have pulled on users should have them screaming but then M$ have a (full)64bit OS they will sell that will mean new H/W & no apps for maybe 12 months or more; where as APPLE have iLIFE/iWORK now. Its all a trade off, always has been and always will be, just know what your buying and what your needs are; then spend accordingly. Salesmen bullshit, personal allegience and the ‘must have the latest’ are the idiots that fund and test all this for the rest of us; and i for one say thank you. But know your getting screwed $ wize usaly for not much extra!
Their are exceptions, maybe your one of them – if so lucky you. But the facts are current APPLE OS efforts are barely 64bit so as to not get litigated out of biz for fraud (and that includeds thier next version) & M$ XP64 is a real 64bit OS with no software and doggie driver support that will need new toys to keep working (remember having to buy a new scaner from 2K>XP as HP took 2 years to produce a few lines of code for thier scanner that was 3 months old!).
Apple deserves the point release of thier OS but its nice to see they have added things like desktop search (on XP you just add google or MSN if YOU NEED IT, as most dont use it).
Goof to see XP64 is the real deal as in the long run it will stave off the ‘REAL’ threat linux which is getting better much faster now, so the gap is lessening as i can now install LINUX and get it to play DVD’s, edit pics and do cool stuff like update OS and Apps that are free!!! If you dont see the wave you miss it and i now have a spare PC for me to play with LINUX on (64bit too)… Redhat are going to buy back more shares, they are profitable (ok only a little bit but in 5 years time you will all wish you had shares) and SUSE now offer a full FREE version in stead of the brain dead LIVE waste of bandwidth (should have come with USB/MEM support for real work like Mandrake’s).
Apple knew they didnt need to go x86i64 to remain in the game, they new CELL was comming and you wait and see if that dosnet change the whole PC game for ever. Even M$ will have a POWERPC (one step behind CELL with RDRAM) gaming consol out this year (well i hope its soon).
I recon CELL will be the chipset of choice for LINUX in 5 years with MULTIPLE cpu sopport and cheap! Combines with a FREE OS/APPS; even M$/Intel Intel is now an AMD clone, much like IBM PC is an industy stand and clone of its former glory) duoploly will face its biggest challange for survival. If you have shars, sell now and buy LINUX/CELL. May sound crazy now but you made your money and now its time to be brave again to make some more. Thats how million airs are made. If you play it safe then enjoy the returns but dont expect GROWTH, just let them go in squeazing users as long as they can. But it wont last for ever and then the GROWTH stocks will have lost thier edge (and the cycle starts all over again, i didnt make this up – do marketing and your taught it from day1!).
& remember the needs of the less fortunate as they will inherit the earth & you rich bastards will be as dust under thier feet as Jesus is comming back a winner & i wont need a PC or software. Until then, feel free to disagree, wont change a thing, but feel free… SteveH
Apple is the worse offender, thier newest version when it hits the shelf has only added some newer 64bit libarys and major ones we were all promised were ‘removed’ for now… Maybe the next Jobs effort should be called the ‘missing moggy?’.
Link to where this is promised, please.
Thanks,
Matt
“Neither XP or Apple (cat name insert here for OS) are propper 64 bit yet”
MS has had a 64 bit version of XP Pro, Windows 2000 Server, and Server 2003 running on the Itanium for years.
http://developer.apple.com/macosx/tiger/64bit.html
“Mac OS X Tiger breaks the limitations of 32-bit computing and allows developers to create command-line applications, servers, and computation engines that can work with mind-blowing amounts of memory”
“It is important to note that in the Tiger release, the support for 64-bit programming does not extend throughout the entire set of APIs available on Mac OS X. Most notably, the Cocoa and Carbon GUI application frameworks are not ready for 64-bit programming.”
“Mac OS X’s transition to 64-bit computing is a long-term effort. The support in Tiger for 64-bit applications is just the second of many phases.”
What benefit would there be if Tiger were completely 64 bit. Anyone able to give a serious answer?
ChanMan,
Thanks for the link. What I actually was looking for was Apples promise about the libraries etc, which has apparently now been broken.
Matt
MS now adding more value free for TabletPC users http://www.flexbeta.net/main/comments.php?catid=5&shownews=12600
“Overview
If you have a Tablet PC, the Experience Pack is a must. Download the Experience Pack and get six new programs that will help you be more productive and creative.
This pack includes:
• Ink Desktop
• Snipping Tool
• Ink Art
• Media Transfer
• Ink Crossword
• Energy Blue Theme Pack”
All free. As a matter of fact, I believe every update and enhancement for the TabletPC Windows XP has been free since release. As compared to OS X, that $129 or $258 saved buys a lot of third party software like OneNote, Adobe Photoshop Elements, Premiere Elements, Ulead Move Studio, you name it.
That’s significant.