Home > Mono > Mono 1.1.8 released Mono 1.1.8 released Eugenia Loli 2005-06-16 Mono 26 Comments Mono 1.1.8 has been released, see the release notes and get it while its fresh from downloads. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 26 Comments 2005-06-16 9:02 pm .NET/Mono when you take away the politics is pretty nice. C#’s really not a bad language at all. For those of us C++, early 90s, mid 90s guys you fit in nice with quite a powerful language (2.0);) Microsoft didn’t dumb down C++ as much as Java Sometimes its nice:) C# has true generics (not compile tricks like java, and closures) and some fairly nifty languages like Boo….check it out…it leverages the big ass .NEt framework in a more concise-designed to .NET python:) You want functional, you got Nemerle. These guys have been working hard for a while over in (don’t kill me…Poland?). They’ve leveraged some of the more advanced CLR over JVM runtime mechanics. the CLR/Mono is a slick runtime. The Mono guys have written a lot of high quality code. It’s definitely worth a look. Lots of Gnome people are programming in Mono….I’m serious…Java is dead compared to Mono. 2005-06-16 9:07 pm Check it. Microsoft is going all out on .NET no matter what that dumb “they didn’t make in the kernel” headline. The CLR is going to get very advanced. It already is. Microsoft is going to spend a lot and lot and lot of money. think, it’s all C#, VB.NET from longhorn out. Microsoft employs A LOT OF VERY SMART PEOPLE NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK, and the CLR is gonna rock fucking hard. You need to check out Mono. 2005-06-16 9:08 pm Anyone with insight in Mono could give a brief overview of the advancement of the project? What’s in and what’s missing against the MS .NET counterpart, briefly.. TY a lot. 2005-06-16 9:20 pm i thought mono was something you DIDNT want to get… 2005-06-16 9:20 pm The mono project is very advanced. they’ve been working on this for quite a while. They’ve got a lot of the mammoth full MS .NET suite done. Lots and lots of bindings and MonoWinForms is going full board with quite a few slaried Novell employees. Plus, the already mature Gkk+ bindings. Check out mono at http://www.mono-project.com (I think) and the mono blogs. http://www.go-mono/monologue (I think). Novell has probably at least 20 guys working on Mono salaried. 2005-06-16 9:55 pm “he Mono guys have written a lot of high quality code. It’s definitely worth a look. Lots of Gnome people are programming in Mono….I’m serious…Java is dead compared to Mono. Microsoft employs A LOT OF VERY SMART PEOPLE NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK, and the CLR is gonna rock fucking hard. You need to check out Mono.”Novell has probably at least 20 guys working on Mono salaried.” one who reads your three comments may think they pay you too and anybody actually uses mono in commercial products/projects. mono is all right, but it cannot be considered as a rival against java in close future. sorry. 2005-06-16 10:37 pm Ported some tools from .NET 1.1 to Mono and they worked without a hitch. Mono is miles beyond anything else on Linux. Miguel and the rest of the gang have done a superb job. While Mono/.NET is not “Java popular”, the technology is notably superior to Java and over the long term will displace Java in most of the world. That said, it will take time for Mono to get a high performance GUI engine. When that happens, it will really take off as it will easily be the best way to write apps on Linux. 2005-06-16 10:40 pm Mono is not in competition with Java. Maybe the JVM, but not the language itself. Mono is meant to be an open source alternative to the .NET framework. It allows C# programs to run on Linux and other OSes. Mono may not be widely used in commercial projects yet, but .NET is. By the way, have a look at the IKVM.NET project. It proves my point that Mono is not competing with Java. 2005-06-16 10:55 pm In the .NET world, there is a “Java” for .NET, i.e. J#. In the Linux world, there is IKVM. Of course if Sun had not sued Microsoft over J++, we might have a totally different world today. Mono will displace Java. Just as .NET has displaced Java. Not the language, per se, but the Sun Java model is outmoded and will gradually be phased out. This means the Sun way of doing Java VM’s, the Sun-controlled language spec, etc. Sun does not understand developers and is the wrong company to have as the controller of Java. Open source Java (from Apache) may help Sun loosen up and let Java free. Time will tell. 2005-06-16 11:30 pm Wow, it seems the Mono people have taken to astroturfing this site. Mono and Java are not as unlike as you make them out to be: http://people.redhat.com/~graydon/csharp-java/ Fozzie is just some partisan trying to fan the flames. 2005-06-16 11:36 pm I don’t even like goldstein, i just bitched at him in the java thread. the CLR is a nice machine. Much better than the JVM in many respects. You’ll never run C++ on java. The CLR is good and going to get much better. 2005-06-16 11:42 pm It’s not half as good as LLVM. Plus it has double the legal issues and bad politics associated with it. 2005-06-16 11:44 pm Has the legal issues been solved now ? 2005-06-16 11:53 pm No, they have not been resolved according to Red Hat’s legal department. Only Novell seems to have permission but not necessarily anyone else. Novell did a legal review of the Mono situation and was supposed to make an official statement about the status of patents on Mono but couldn’t go through with it, since the news was bad. 2005-06-16 11:57 pm @brewin i dont see a point of running Java over IKVM. Nobody uses that anyway. Java virtual machine is better in terms of performance and stability after all. Technology wise, i see no serious advantage of .Net, or C# over Java. .Net is intended to be “one platform Multi language”. sounds nice but this has its own problems. i prefer “one language any platform” any day. However, if you are really into scripting, there are languages designed for funning under JVM anyway. @goldstein Virtually Nobody uses J# or IKVM. You say “Mono will displace Java. Just as .NET has displaced Java.”. i say none happened, unlikley it will happen. i talk facts, you talk your wishes. java is free enough, and majority of the developers are completely happy with it, except people who does not use or know it. Anyway, mono developers, or users should stop talking MS FUD about Java technology and focus on their “real” target developer group, Gnome developers. Perl, Python, C++, Ruby, Php programmers. C#-Mono shift is extremely slow because of the mindset, and i do not think this scene will change soon. Copying java projects (which is very easy for C#, it is almost same after all) is not helping either. Tying yourself to Microsoft is never cheap. 2005-06-17 12:27 am Mono and Java are not as unlike as you make them out to be Of course they’re not unlike. .NET is Java done almost right and getting better. That’s because .NET learned from Java’s successes and shortcomings, and keeps learning. The sad truth is that there was nothing stopping Java from doing exactly the same (e.g. correcting its shortcomings), but the people who own it chose to do nothing about it. 2005-06-17 2:29 am “.NET is Java done almost right and getting better. That’s because .NET learned from Java’s successes and shortcomings, and keeps learning. ” And they managed to make similar mistakes if you ask me. This is just political talk. Java’s motto is simplicity, The desicions made while designing java was not easy, and design was made carefuly simplicity and code abuse in mind (like for the issues operator overloading, const, multiple return values, multiple inheritence, unsafe code, checked exceptions etc). However, it was not design as a scripting language either, because main target was C-C++ programmers. Many low level programmers still wants those contraversial aspects, without really thinking the real reasoning behind it. C# just added more C++ like look into it. this may bring more power, but naturally more complexity. think of the method-keyword bloat. if you ask me C# is half step back from Java, not ahead. Some people likes it better but i prefer Java’s way. Java is evolving nicely (are you avare of Java 5 Tiger?), i see no show stopper or stg seriously wrong in it, could be better? of course. well, anyway, let the code talks, not the FUD and propaganda. 2005-06-17 2:39 am Java 5 – Tiger is an improvement but the language improvements are just language improvements not actual improvements in the VM. Sun needs to actually make a new major version that improves the bytecode. Example: The Generics introduced compile down to the same bytecode as if you programmed in previous version of Java, just a prettier syntax. .NET Generics are supported by the VM and actually improve performance(boxing/unboxing related). Of course if/when Sun does this sort of thing newly compiled binaries won’t run on older VM’s but that’s just something that’s going to have to be done. 2005-06-17 4:49 am Yes, COBOL rulez 😉 2005-06-17 5:37 am Do you know this is the only thing people says when subject is .Net and Java in OsNews? Anyhow, i discussed that before in detail, and let me say it shortly again. if you think Java 5 in general, and JVM is not improved, i would suggest re-checking the change list. For the generics, Yes, it is correct, for not breaking back compatibility, use of generics in Java is implemented in compiler level. However, most importantly For users perspective usage is asmost same in both C# and Java. They are too similar IMHO. Furthermore, this effects the performance only in limited cases and over all impact might be negligible (of course, in micro benchmarks, it would be apparent) The so-called low level generics improvement in C# 2.0 only becomes noticable when you use value types in collections. using primitives extensively in collections is not a very common thing except in some mathematics intensive applications. Even in that case, many times arrays do the job without need of collection framework. For more common usage of collections, which is the case of object references, the performance of java generics and MS .Net will probably be similar. So, this is hardly a ground breaking improvement for .Net, especially for developers point of view. In many cases, if performance becomes a bottleneck because of usage of primitives extensively in collections (i believe this is hardly the case in %99 of the applications), in java you can always go for rolling your own primitive collection framework (like commons-primitives) and guess what, java 5 is almost for 1 year out and MS .net still has no generics. 2005-06-17 8:56 am Is the same fozzie that was calling people using GPL licenses nazis and coummunists ? Your comments seem to be removed. Why do you have to make such over the top ridiculous statements ? Are you beeing payed to spoil the athmosphere over here ? 2005-06-17 8:58 am Hi, I am aware of Monodevelop and have tested it. It’s a nice project, as Sharpdevelop is. Monodevelop still lacks the GUI designer, but.. That’s not a problem for me. I’d like to develop web applications on Mono in Linux and need something like VS.net Web Developer Edition. Is there such project for Mono? 2005-06-17 10:05 am I’d like to develop web applications on Mono in Linux and need something like VS.net Web Developer Edition. Is there such project for Mono? Nope. MS learned a long time ago that the tools are as important as the technology, and now it’s time to Novell learn that too. If they really want to make Mono great, they should put their developers officially and seriously committed to produce a kick-ass IDE for Mono, as VS.Net is for .Net. There’s no way a .Net developer can be convinced of switching from VS.Net/Windows to Monodevelop/Linux. 2005-06-17 10:38 am I think mono is very promising project and I sort of like it, actually and C# is interresting language. One think I somehow cannot get over is the dll and exe suffixes and the “this program cannot be run in DOS mode” . These little details annoy me. Otherwise I’would recommend everyone to try to code something in C#, GTK#, it is really fun. But not as much as doing it in Python IMHO. 2005-06-17 3:13 pm Microsoft is going all out on .NET Microsoft is going to spend a lot and lot and lot of money. think, it’s all C#, VB.NET from longhorn out. I’d rather say it’s the marketing department of Microsoft who goes all out on .NET, since the developers at Microsoft on several occasions has stated that no part of Longhorn is going to be made with .NET. The same apply to MS Office by the way. 2005-06-18 6:57 pm There’s no way a .Net developer can be convinced of switching from VS.Net/Windows to Monodevelop/Linux. Quite. The amusing thing is that the Mono people have talked about developing .Net applications in VS and then simply copying them to a non-Microsoft platform and running them under Mono! I just fail to see what good that is going to do anyone.