The Sun Times has published an article discussing Linux and its viability as a desktop operating system. Be warned: this article can safely be filed under “flamebait.”
Sorting through the Linux lie: What it really can do
About The Author
Adam Scheinberg
Technology Executive • Web Developer • Father • Foodie • Music Snob • OS enthusiast
Follow me on Mastodon @[email protected]
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…all of my pronouncements are absolutely flawless from all conceivable logical angles, and are not to be questioned.
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And that’s as far as I’ll read. I won’t sink to this man’s level by reading about his boring belly aches…
firefox blocked it in my machine.
David,
As “Anonymous (IP: 219.83.16.—)” said the ONLY Unix based Desktop available is OSX, PERIOD!.
I tryed many Linux Distros available under the sun, NONE comes near OSX or Xp when it comes to USABILITY out of the box.
For goodnes sakes, Linux is NOT a DESKTOP alternative as long as there are no Application available Joe Six pack wants to use !! Linux is not a DESKTOP alternative as long as there is no easy way to download and install S/W.
As i said – I tryed many Distros- Suse, Red Hat, Libranet, Mepis – hoping to be able to get away from Xp, NONE met my needs. The last one was Linspire five0. Well, as long as you limit yourself to CNR and web browsing you are cruising along quite well, but as soon as you wish to do some more serious stuff like Video editing you have no other alternative than Xp, or better, OSX.
BTW, People are not too stupid or lazy just because they don’t wan’t to learn Linux ….. they use their intellegence and time for other things. As long as these lazy and stupid people are productive using Xp or OSX they will not switch to Linux and waste hours trying to have Linux doing what Xp or OSX do a few mouse clicks away.
Just because you use Linux doesn’t make you a more zealous or intelligent person. Just because you like “wasting” hours trying to get an Application halfway running on Linux doesn’t make you a more productive employee.
On the Desktop People use what suits them best – and this is Windows for 99% of business’ and home users.
Linux not ready for the desktop = Bullshit
The only thing I boot into at home. Will be trying Zeta R1 soon but I can’t stand being in Windows XP at home as my hardware is better supported under Linux.
Having to run all the utilities to keep Windows running is more that I want to deal with on my home PC when I have to support Windows Graphics Workstations at work. We also have an interesting setup with print servers. Some run under Windows and some under Linux. Guess which ones are reliable and just do their job? Not the bloody Windows ones I can tell you.
Anyway, yawn. Not much more time to pass on this slow day until I jump on my bike and zoom off into the lovely sunny day that is Melbourne.
“We also have an interesting setup with print servers.”
Hello, you mention SERVERS and not DESKTOP.
C’mon mate, have “Photoshop”, “Pinnacle”, “Quicken’, “Office XP”, and hundrets of other WinApps. running nativley on your favourite Linux Distro and prove 99% of PC-users 2 b fools.
There are reasons why Linux struggles to be accepted on the Desktop – one is professional Apllications or the lack there of. – Linux fanboys don’t get it –
Hope you enjoyed your bike ride through sunny Melbourne.
Linux never lie. but all of you maybe make it a dramatical issue. Can;t get linux work ? So don’t use it. Because you have windows on your mind for a long time. So, you can’t open your mine quickly. You must ‘clean’ your mind first from windows, then start to use linux. Never think that linux is windows. It’s defferents, and have an own flavour. I’ve migrated many windows users to linux and say to them “Don’t and never think linux is window. You must open your mind to use it. Then, it’ll work for you. Even as a server or a desktop”.
“Be warned: this article can safely be filed under ‘flamebait.'”
So why did you post it here then? Moronic. Stupid. Inflamatory. Unneccessary. Ridiculous.
PLEASE, post news, not diatribe.
I’m getting sick of hearing “Linux is not as easy to use as Windows” Here’s one windows refugee who switched because he found Windows too hard to use. (because of BSOD’s, freezing, other unpredictable behavior… before adding malware to the mixture, to say nothing of after). Having done that, I’ve found Linux’s performance, horsepower requirements, flexibility, security, reliability many orders of magnitude higher than I could have imagined in my previous life as a windows user.
Hardware? Ok, there’s stuff out there that the manufacturers are too arrogant to release spec’s for. But what is there (the open source drivers, anyway) will still be availiable long after the manufacturer decides it’s no longer profitable to support this hardware. Case in point, HP seems to have decided to no longer support my parallel port CD Burner and I can’t get a driver for it that’s good for Windows2K. Linux? The driver’s are there as kernel modules and it’s ready to go out of the box.
I hope Linus doesn’t take offence at having to put up with people comparing his wonderful gift to the world with a POS like Windows!
Sometimes it’s not what you say, but how you say it. A lot of what he said was true, but he was such an asshole about how he said it that he might as well have just written “Linux SuX0r. It’s teh gay!!!!1111”
He did get some things really wrong though,
http://www.blindmindseye.com/2005/06/24/a-lot-of-good-points-mixed-…
OK I haven’t read all the comments but distro’s like Xandros make installing software very simple and adding hardware OK too. Possibly even these Linux are challenging for PC phobic novices (they may have to use a text editor and do some research if something doesn’t work).
However, is Windows much better? The constant patching, spyware removal tools, AVs and AV updates etc etc. How many times do you see a Windows PC totally infested with malware – How about a Linux PC?
No, if your just going to surf and type and email something like Xandros might be better than Windows for the Novice user. The problem with Linux is the huge jump between Novice user and knowledgeable user.
Finally once Haiku OS is finished and Yellowtab is out (Next week) their might be a desktop os better than both of them!
The trend is integration of internet with the desktop.
Why is’nt there a portal integrated with linux that makes you locate the driver? In windows you have “Locate driver on the internet” but it does not work all that well. A prefect solution is to have a database that matches the hardware with the driver.
I think the author is absolutely right. Linux desktop is not ready for Joe Anybody. I wish it was because maintaining my dads windows pc is a b***h since he clicks on every banner he sees…All that adware, spyware, viruses, etc…I dont think it would be an issue on a linux box (I might get surprised though)…
Anyways, why would we want everyone to use linux and steal our jobs?…Let the WinCretins use windows
Xandros does have a portal intergrated you just click and download – (a gui apt-get where you can get software and drivers etc)
I’m certanly thinking about it for my dad – same problem as “The truth” However if it does go wrong
But maybe I’ll wait for Zeta 1.0 or Haiku
The Linux devs, and the OpenBSD, NetBSD, FreeBSD & the rest do the software for themselves. They’re nice enough to release it to the public. If Joe Sixpack is too stupid to use Unix then he better keep using the proprietary Microseft system. Who cares what a random bozo uses, as long as his box isn’t used to relay spam or spread viruses. There are newbie friendly Linux distros for those who want something else, but I fail to see why should geeks spoon feed the unwashed masses whose VCR clock reads 00:00.
I wholehartly agree.Even on windows you still have to use the apps,although some have a computer just as decoration,than the OS doesn’t really matter.
Linux,*BSD and the rest make better use of system recources.One of my boxes i got today is a PIII 667GHz 128 MB sdram,it runs KDE 3.4.0 suprisingly well on FreeBSD5.4
Running windows XP on the same box is a big disaster especially with SP2.
I think linux’s major poroblem is not that it can’t work, it is that someone really needs to know what they are doing to get it to work the way they want it to. Linux once configured by someone who knows what they are doing will generally be pretty close to problem free.
I think the major problem is lack of automatic setup, I know this urks many linux power users to no end because they want it the way they want it (myself included), but I think automatic setup of everything should be standard, then have a “F5” or something at boot to go through the text install with manual configuration (make the geeks and the novices happy).
I think the same should be true with package management, an easy graphical install, and a custom poweruser install (cli or graphical) which would allow for maximum customizability for each package.
I have not found any hardware I could not make work with linux (haven’t tried a webcam) and most hardware works perfectly out of the box, boot up the system and…. there it is. Granted once again…. this has to do with my custom configuration, other distros may or may not work this way but my point is, it can and does work about 99% of the time on my systems
anyway, point is… make it easier and more intuitive and more hardware and software providers will start to jump on the linux bandwagon.
ps…
someone earlier said no photoshop or ms office on linux
I have photoshop7 and ms office running under wine with virtually no performance hit that i can see,… i do not need them (i use OpenOffice and gimp) but I have them installed to show friends it can be done and how well they work.
” have “Photoshop”, “Pinnacle”, “Quicken’, “Office XP”, ”
no actually i have the gimp, open office, and the coolest thing is that is on my windows box as well as linux
different platforms have different apps because they all want you locked in to the argument that xyz app is better than the similar app on a different platform… thats the cool thing about the gimp and OO, doesnt matter teh system i am on i can get stuff done!
>The problem with trying to have any kind of rational debate about how to improve Linux here is that the hordes of anti-Linux posters are just waiting for a reason to jump
OsNews just posted an article about an exploit for already fixed bug in Outlook Express. First posts are all from posters just waiting for reason to jump and bash OE.
Go there and tell them: you don’t like OE, don’t use it. Like you tell people who dare to say anything critical about Linux.
Will you?
It is not like all Linux users are angels. Look at yourself, it did not stop you from calling people names like ‘raving lunatic’ for the simple fact they don’t share your excitement of Linux.
Judging by the amount of pro-Linux anti-Microsoft posts in every Windows and Linux discussion, one could easily conclude that Linux owns 95% of desktop while Windows is only marginally successful desktop OS with a very limited user base.
one could easily conclude that Linux owns 95% of desktop while Windows is only marginally successful desktop OS with a very limited user base.
Depends on the referential fit.I would say it’s not so far besides the truth amongst the people who know.
…but if you remove the words like ‘lie’, it describes the current situation pretty well.
But it’s not because of Linux – it’s because of hardware vendors. If ATI and nVidia GPLed their drivers, Linux & 3D would work much nicer. If we didn’t all these non-standard hardware, the problem wouldn’t exist. I have pretty much standard hardware and I’ve NEVER had any problems with it. I don’t even see any “new hardware found” wizard. I plug my USB flash reader in, then BANG! I have a nice icon on my GNOME desktop. I plug my Canon A80 camera, and the system launches gThumb with an easy-to-use wizard to transfer all of my photos. I like it even more than Canon’s official software for Windows.
But, unfortunately, if you have something like a thumbprint scanner, the problems arise. It’s the hardware manufacturers to blame, however. The kernel team simply can’t afford to write drivers for every piece of hardware out there. What I also don’t like is that installing non-standard hardware requires installing kernel modules. Ugh! The same goes for Windows-only software.
But once you get everything working, the Gnome desktop is VERY intuitive and easy to use. I was completely bought when I dragged an image file from the desktop onto another image opened in GIMP, and it created a new layer and pasted the image from the desktop there! Even if it works in Windows & Photoshop, I would never think about it. Or the file assiciation meneger. Gnome just *feels* intuitive. Once you get used to it, you’ll begin doing thigs in a much more intuitive way than in Windows. At least it was so for me 😉
In addition, it’s very easy to get your Windows copy trashed. Delete an innocent-looking boot.ini, and you’re done. Connect it to the Internet, and you’re infested with crap. Oh, and my father had HUGE problems connecting a Windows Mobile 2003 SE PDA with Windows XP PRO SP2 via Bluetooth. Actually, he’s still having problems with it every now and then. What I hate about these easy-to-use things, it that the thing just does what it thinks is right, and does too much stupid autoconfiguration, ending up in trashing everything. Show me a WinXP box which has Widows installed for more than two years (it’s a small amount of time, actually if you compare it with *NIX stuff) which works just as well as the day it was first started, especially if software/hardware is frequently installed/removed/replaced.
As for Mac OS X, it has good hardware support, well, because it comes with standard hardware. Never seen a Mac not working with its own hardware out-of-the-box.
i am a young slackware/freebsd user. <rant>i’m personally getting tired of these types of articles because it totally defeats the purpose of why there is unix and linux. you get your problems working with linux and unix in general, but that is why you read documentation and ask for help if needed. the reason i like linux and unix is because you have a choice. stop trying to mold all distros into a windows clone</rant>
just my two cents…
Actually, this authors view of Linux is pretty much what mine is. He didnt seem to be bashing it really, but he certainly has his doubts as a main stream OS for the average joe.
Linux desktop is also for the ultra stupid user that will only ever click on one or two icons for mail and Internet.
On another subject. Everybody says Linux is so great for the server market, but I am still waiting for a mail-groupware server with clients that can compete with Groupwise and Exchange. Please don’t mention any of that web-based crap. And forget it if it doesn’t have a client for Windows. Also forget it if I have to kludge together 15 Open Source programs to make it work. And how long have we been knowing that we need a mail-groupware server with client in the OSS world? Has anyone even started to work on one yet? They say OSS programmers have to have a need or itch to write GPL software. Well, isn’t mail-groupware one of the most basic needs? Or are they satisfied with Exchange. OK, it’s time now for you to say, “Why don’t don’t you write it yourself.” OK, we have that crappy line out of the way. Now when is someone going to write this?
Thanks for the rant opportunity.
exchange – blah….
there are a few groupware projects, some you have to piece together but at least you dont have a bunch of stuff you dont want or need and that opens you up to exploits…
http://mirror.open-xchange.org/ox/EN/community/download.htm
I try FreeBSD and …bamm! Everything works.
Hear, hear!
Well, I’ve been using Linux for 8 years or so and of course it has come a long way for user friendlyness. But I have to agree that it’s not quite there yet. I think there are many things which are still a big mess. One of the answers is standardisation. F.ex why does anyone need man pages, info files, docbook generated stuff etc…? Why not just settle on one format that is suitable for everything? I think the decentralised/anarchistic nature of Linux is hurting it too.
About the docs, they are often badly written. That is many of them supose that you have prior knowledge on some concepts. For example just take a look at the rand(3) man page. Could never get that stupid rand() working. In Turbo C it is much easier.
Last weekend I bought wireless network cards (rt4500), it took me one day to get one working. No module available in the kernel. Had to go download 2 or 3 different versions of the driver, none of them compiled. Had to cvs to get the latest revision, compile again. Recompile a kernel. Start to read through the shitload of docs. And it still doesn’t work cause there’s a bug in the driver… this is just insane. Users don’t have so much time to lose just to get some consumer electronics working.