“Rivalry between different derivatives of OpenSolaris has already begun, two weeks after Sun Microsystems’ initial code release.“
Tension between OpenSolaris derivatives
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Adam Scheinberg
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This is such a non event minor discussion that has occured on the opensolaris-discuss forums. To say that this is “Tension” I think grossly exaggerates the situation. This is healthy discussion clarifying where everyone involved stands.
Potential forks is indeed a important news. You can see it as a fragmentation of platform(netbsd vs openbsd) or you can view it as a experimental playout which will enhance the result (gcc vs egcs)
However downplaying the importance isnt a good thing to do
Joerg Schilling causing a stink on a mailing list, now who would have thought something like this could happen…
I just wish his social skills would match his technical skills.
Overdramatic…
Anyone that knows Joerg knows that he comes across as confrontational, the fact that English is not his native language doesn’t help.
Really, can we stop with the sensationalistic articles people? It’s so passe. At least this time it’s ZDNet’s fault…
Joerg Schilling is right about his distribution of open solaris being more open than the current Sun version which requires proprietary components to boot strap and run
There is tension between Ubuntu and Debian, they make incompatible packages and Unbutu changes doesn’t get folded back into the main Debian repository. BTW, is any of the Linux distros compatible with the others?
OpenSolaris is the death of Linux and all those with Linux investments know it — so chill out folks.
Oh, didn’t Sun say anyone could take the source and do anything they want with it? How is this tension? How is this anything.
This guy has a reputation for causing a stink on a mailing lists. I guess he thinks he’s special because he got the first “Open” distro out there. This guy better recognize that this isn’t linux we’re talking about and so any of that idiotic nonsense, screaming about “I’m the most open” will promptly get shot down.
This falls into the ‘know your source’ category.
Ziff Davis has shown for well over a decade (and I mean 15+ years in my personal experience) that they will sensationalize and stir hornets every chance they get. If there are no hornets, they will invent some.
If there are any serious considerations from the Solaris hackers, the Solaris hackers will figure it out.
Indeed a story it is although an almost entirely fictional one.
>>OpenSolaris is the death of Linux and all those with Linux
>>investments know it — so chill out folks.
Did you ever think that there are people that like Linux? OpenSolaris is not the death of Linux, but another chance at life for Solaris. (I’m not saying Solaris is dead but OpenSolaris will probably enlargen its market share)
“Already Reviewed”? Now if that wasn’t off topic, I don’t know what would be.. and Open Solaris the death of Linux? LMFAO. In your dreams pal. In your dreams..
There is tension between Ubuntu and Debian, they make incompatible packages and Unbutu changes doesn’t get folded back into the main Debian repository. BTW, is any of the Linux distros compatible with the others?
OpenSolaris is the death of Linux and all those with Linux investments know it — so chill out folks.
Oh, didn’t Sun say anyone could take the source and do anything they want with it? How is this tension? How is this anything.
Ummmm, I know this is a technical news site and all, but have you ever thought about getting out of the house and doing something other than fantasizing about the “OS wars”?
I always wonder why every time Ford brings out something new, people don’t run around screaming about the end of Chevy, yet it happens on a day to day basis with software. Are all the insane and delusional people attracted to computers for some reason? Or is it because truck and car owners don’t get so wrapped up in the products that they run online and start talking about how all of the competition is going to die? I really would like to know.
Oh, and btw, Ubuntu’s changes do get merged back into Debian, just like Red Hat’s enhancements to Gnome and the Linux Kernel get merged into Ubuntu. Whether or not the packages are compatable doesn’t mean anything.
Oh, and another btw, you do realize that people are going to fork Open Solaris just like with Linux Distros, right? 11 days now and there are already 2 distributions.
Jörg Schilling is right, stupid thing to not have a full opensource distrib from Sun …
http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2138826/open-source-ip-fears-risi…
If MS doesn’t get Linux the EU patents will.
Looks like some of you insane ones need more fresh air in your life. Corporations aren’t going to invest in shaky IP arguments, and why should they. Who wants to get sued when you don’t have to.
Please, educate yourself about the patent system. There is nothing in the world making opensolaris safer from someone suing for patent infrigement than linux.
Btw., how much did SUN have to pay for a patent infringement in Java recently?
IIRC, Sun developers said give it time and you’ll see ready to use distributions (schillix?) poping up. Open Solaris has been available for how long? Almost 2 weeks now? The way I see it is, Sun has taken the biggest step by even releasing their OS as open source and now it’s time for the “community” to step up and make something out of what they have provided at their own expenses. Can’t say I’m really suprised to see folks on this forum complaining about how inadequate solaris express is even though it’s just been released.
We tried it the day it came out. First there’s not install. You boot from the CD and manually setup the system. fdisk/format and then tar the CD contents to the hard drive. Then you configure GRUB and reboot. After that you’re left with a system that lacks the pkg* tools, no man pages and no third party software besides /opt/gcc-3.4.3 and /opt/schily. From there you have to configure the net manually if you’re not using DHCP, which is something most Linux folks will fail to do without googling first, because is pretty different from how other operating systems do it. Now that you have something networked you can try using pkgsrc and see most packages fail to build.
OTOTH, Solaris Express just works. ShilliX will be cool in 6 months or so, now is just a playground for developers, not even experienced users.
Please stop trying to start sterile and destructive flamewars. There is room for both Linux and OpenSolaris, the real threat is (as always) Microsoft.
United we stand, divided we fall…
We have the patent equivalent of MAD, since we don’t glow in the dark now I think the patent threat is overestimated to.
“here is room for both Linux and OpenSolaris, the real threat is (as always) Microsoft. ”
While I agree Microsoft is not exactly the friend of busineses and consumers, what with all their overt illegal practices over the years, however, I would hesitate to lump Sun in with Linux.
Wasn’t Sun behind some SCO shenanigans? VIA MS? Methinks they are more closely alike that you wish to admit.
Also, developing for SunSource (or whatever the hell it’s called) is really just working for free for a company.
Developing for Linux, is developing for a HUGE community of open source; Many companies, many users, even many platforms (when it comes to apps). So please don’t equate SUN adn their half-hearted “open source” system that boxes you into working for them for free, to say, developing for Ubuntu or Arch or White Box or Mandriva or RH or SLAX or DSL or Peanut, or, well… you get the idea.
I’m not equating Sun with Linux…I still don’t trust Sun (given their past shenaningans, as you put it). However, one should differentiate between the company and the technology. Even then, I am not equating OpenSolaris and Linux. I agree that Linux is a much large community project that OpenSolaris is. However, I do believe there is room for both OSes.
I think that Joerg is doing good work, but he sure seems to have an attitude about it. I think the whole issue is a little over blown though. Also open solaris is very new why are people so worried about everthing being there one day one?
Of course OpenSolaris will have it’s own installer and be seporated from Solaris Express, just pull your paties out of your butt and take a deep breath. It will come..
I know nothing about him, but based on the article I think he may have a good point. There is a need for a reference release of OpenSolaris that is completely open and free…SunSolaris does not fill that requirement. I hope what Schilling creates serves this purpose.
However, one should differentiate between the company and the technology.
Why?
Agreed, SchilliX barely passes as a usable command line environment. Don’t get me wrong, it’s amazing he got it out as fast as he did, but even so good luck trying to do anything productive on there.
“However, one should differentiate between the company and the technology.”
Why?
Because they’re not the same thing. For example, I don’t have too many problems with Windows. I use it at work and it gets the job done (though I don’t like installing it on a friend’s computer, because it is very time-consuming compared to a Linux install). So I’m not too much into blasting Windows. I prefer Linux, but Windows is an adequate OS.
MS, on the other hand, is a predatory monopoly that needs to be heavily regulated (much more agressively than what the DOJ has done so far). I personally support forcing MS to open-source its OS and its file systems, so that it no longer has an unfair advantages over competitors. So I do differentiate between the company and its product.
I saw the messages, I wouldn’t call it tension, just make a difference of people running a Solaris-version of the OS and people running the open one. Nothing to see here, move along.
In other news there are a huge amount of tension between the bsds, the linuxs, the bsds and linux, and in the microsoft camp!
It’s said some prefer debian, some gentoo, some openbsd, others freebsd… and even xp vs 2k?! what to do, what to do, it’s a crazy world we live in.
Jörg Schilling? You must be kidding.
I just came back from LinuxTag,
and every time I heard that name
everyone boo’d. Including myself.
Talk about his crapware.
And there won’t be a MirSolaris either,
I think. Not worth it.
But if someone wants to make MirOS run
in a zone… no problem. (I’d
rather use Xen tho.)
Quote: “MS, on the other hand, is a predatory monopoly that needs to be heavily regulated (much more agressively than what the DOJ has done so far). I personally support forcing MS to open-source its OS and its file systems, so that it no longer has an unfair advantages over competitors. So I do differentiate between the company and its product.”
You hit the nail right on the head. Of course, with the US system being as corrupt as it is, it’ll never happen. Government does what big business wants it to do (monkey see, monkey do).
You can mod this comment down all you like guys, but it doesn’t change the fact that Microsoft got bugger all punishment, when we all know that they should have got their ass kicked from here to kingdom come. Most just shakes their heads and get on with it, others question the integrity of those with the power to make and enforce decisions.
Oh and grokster got it’s butt kicked 9-0 in the supreme court as well, maybe Wallace’s complaint might win as well. Nothing surprises me. Big business can’t compete on quality, but they have money, and money buys governments. If you want to be patriotic, fine, but don’t discount my views because of some warped patriotism – “my country would never do that…” bullshit.
Good on schillig for doing what he’s done – Sun’s opensolaris isn’t open. Far from it. Not in it’s current stage, whether it morphs into something more open due to community pressure is another thing. This is really just a Sun-Microsoft move from their alliance to undermine open source and the GNU/FSF and Linux in general. Nothing more and nothing less.
Dave
The US patents didn’t get Linux, why would the EU patents do it ?
However, one should differentiate between the company and the technology.
Why?
Because Sun is a company with awesome technology and a bunch of morons for management??? (Sun employees, just pretend u didnt see that :-P)
Good on schillig for doing what he’s done – Sun’s opensolaris isn’t open. Far from it. Not in it’s current stage, whether it morphs into something more open due to community pressure is another thing. This is really just a Sun-Microsoft move from their alliance to undermine open source and the GNU/FSF and Linux in general. Nothing more and nothing less.
Just a few questions:
So how is ShilliX any more “open or free” than OpenSolaris?
Why isn’t OpenSolaris “open” (I think I know the answer, GPL or the highway)?
How does Sun “undermine” open source, GNU/FSF and Linux?
Quote: “Why isn’t OpenSolaris “open” (I think I know the answer, GPL or the highway)?”
Yes, that partly. I don’t like the CDDL, nor do I like the BSD licenses, and I certainly don’t have to like them.
In order to install open solaris you need to basically be running Solaris express. That is not open. I’d expect iso images like pretty much any other operating system.
Quote: “How does Sun “undermine” open source, GNU/FSF and Linux?”
Whilst I don’t have any proof, i’m positive that open solaris and indeed the CDDL are coercive attempts between Microsoft and Sun to destroy the GPL, and Linux. Both are proprietary companies, both would love to have total domination of the market. Of course you won’t find any proof of this. Both companies will hide their intent for obvious reasons.
Quote: “How does Sun “undermine” open source, GNU/FSF and Linux? ”
Eventually it’ll be totally open, with an iso installer and everything I suspect, as well as using totally open source items.
I’m not a fan of Schillig by any means, but he’s gone and tried to make opensolaris more open, and Sun doesn’t like that competition.
Dave
I’m not a fan of Schillig by any means, but he’s gone and tried to make opensolaris more open, and Sun doesn’t like that competition.
Seriously, Dave, if Sun didn’t like Joerg why would Sun have been so willing to have him as an inaugural member of the OpenSolaris Community Advisory Board?
regarding the ‘must presently be running Solaris Express’ complaint — so the what do you think the first part of any free Unix bootstrap is? OpenSolaris is getting there, it’s just that there is a heckuva lot of work to get organised.
As for your other comments: it’s my experience of Sun (both as a customer and as a staff member) that Sun does not indulge in conspiracy theories. You can believe what you want about that sort of thing. I will agree with you to differ.
Seriously, Dave, if Sun didn’t like Joerg why would Sun have been so willing to have him as an inaugural member of the OpenSolaris Community Advisory Board?
regarding the ‘must presently be running Solaris Express’ complaint — so the what do you think the first part of any free Unix bootstrap is? OpenSolaris is getting there, it’s just that there is a heckuva lot of work to get organised.
As for your other comments: it’s my experience of Sun (both as a customer and as a staff member) that Sun does not indulge in conspiracy theories. You can believe what you want about that sort of thing. I will agree with you to differ.
Get your ass over to the new workstation article. I’m thinking of buying one and was looking for a Sun employee to talk to about it
(just kidding btw……….but seriously ……..get over there 
)
Everyone in the IT industry has to violate SOME software patents, I guess we all can agree to this.
The lets look who might have reasons to sue whom:
1) IP – parasites (pure litigation companies) look for relatively wealthy and relatively easy targets. They sue Microsoft, IBM, Sun for strong patents, they sue SME’s for weaker Patents (because IBM might go to the trouble of invalidating the patent). OSS is not on their radar to day because the community has shown to be neither a wealthy nor an easy target.
2) Some smaller company sueing an OSS project to get rid of a competitor. I think this could happen with the likes of RIAA if they think they can reduce piracy in this way.
3) IBM, Sun, Redhat sueing an OSS project. Very unlikely, they would loose to much goodwill in the community.
4) MS sueing OSS projects to get rid of them. This MS will definitely do if they get in trouble. I don’t think they will do it as long as they stay positive.
Thanks for your responce.
IMO…
OpenSolaris is a very young project, I suspect an iso will be forthcoming providing an “open” boot method in the not so distant future.
I can pretty much deal with any open source license. I believe that each has merits and drawbacks depending on one’s perspective.
Personally I think the “Tension between OpenSolaris derivatives” title is misleading and OpenSolaris and ShilliX will get along just fine.
Vive la difference of OSS