Open-Source Java Seeks Commercial Donations

DOn’t we already have this?

Sun see’s GCJ getting alot more support than they expected, and they don’t want to lose their baby so they’re making their own? This is a question.

ehm..can someone give me an overview about the diffrences between those three? arent they all open java implementation? thank you

DOn’t we already have this?

Sun see’s GCJ getting alot more support than they expected, and they don’t want to lose their baby so they’re making their own? This is a question.

Sun invented Java. Sun was the first java distributor. Sun’s java is the official reference implementation.

GCJ is NOT a JRE. It is a compiler that compiles Java code into native binaries, meaning that if you compile something with gcj on linux, it won’t run on FreeBSD. If you use Harmony or Sun’s JRE, it will run on any OS that is supported by Java.

Well, GCJ includes interpreter (gij) as well as ahead-of-time compiler. It can run cross-platform *.class files just fine, and can take advantage of precompiled *.so files in addition.

“Ummmm, duh. I think what he was referring to was under an open source license. He probably shouldn’t have assumed people would be intelligent enough to realize this however, as obviously some people aren’t.”

Right, so now we have to assume stuff when reading an article – ofcourse… makes perfect sense. Never read what is actually written, guess what the journalist thinks. Right got that – will remember that….

> DOn’t we already have this?

Yes.

My best guess is that the Apache folks don’t like the GPL. Perhaps they think that it scares off commercial interests, and they prefer a more BSD-like license, possibly in hopes that more companies will adopt it as their own (or a base for their own) Java implementations.

I think that’s the only reason they want their own non-GNU Java implementation.

As an aside, I don’t know why there’s both kaffe *and* gij. I believe they both do the same thing. I also think they both use GNU Classpath.

Classpath is already great and is used by vairous VMs, i dont think harmony will have a big future.

Sun has invested billions of dollars, and hundreds of thousands of hours of programming work into Java. And we’ve reaped the benefits.

By what right do we, the open source community, have to steal their product?

By what right do we, the open source community, have to steal their product?

Obviously this is just a troll, but I can’t resist: the Java spec has been modified over the past couple of years (through the JCP, controlled almost entirely by Sun) so that open source implementations are specifically allowed. Sun has also relaxed their certification rules (with “scholarships”) so that such implementations can even be certified as genuine Java. There is no “stealing” going on by any stretch of the imagination, as you well know.

Classpath is already great and is used by vairous VMs, i dont think harmony will have a big future.

The intention is for Harmony to use Classpath. So whether Harmony has a big future or not will be decided by other factors.

From the article:

“Project Harmony is seeking code donations from commercial vendors of Java Virtual Machines to kick-start the development of its new open-source Java project.”

Compare and contrast this thread to the discussion raging around the OSNews-linked article, “An Open Letter To The Open Source Community”:

http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=11082

When corporate IT* makes requests of free software, the amount of shouting is immense. Now we have free software making requests of commercial JVM vendors for free code. Where’s the counter-fuss? Why is no-one complaining about companies being asked to give up code they invested time and money in and quite probably use to generate their income?

As only an occasional Java programmer, I’m largely uninterested in Harmony. If they want to ask for code donations, or someone wants to give one, good luck to all concerned. But I found the contrast in attitudes with the other thread simply incredible. (I realise the fuss isn’t actually Apache’s doing.)

I was also amused by this snippet from the Harmony FAQ:

“10) Do you have any code to start?

No, we don’t. We didn’t want to “bless” any given implementation that might be donated (if such a thing could happen) but would rather let the community decide how it will create and develop the platform.”

Did the community decide on this request for donations then? I trust now they will be blessing some of the implementations that might be donated in response to their request?

* Though I persist in saying it was just a view point used to express the ideas in the article.

If they want to ask for code donations, or someone wants to give one, good luck to all concerned. But I found the contrast in attitudes with the other thread simply incredible. (I realise the fuss isn’t actually Apache’s doing.)

OSNews comments are filled with trolls – and the earlier story you point to is no exception. Why should anyone have to defend a “contrast in attitudes” propigated by trolls? How many of those trolls do you think have anything to do with Apache? How many do you think even know how to code? (My guess is less than 5%.) Your mistake was ever believing that the “attitude” shown in OSNews comments have anything to do with the actual attitudes of those in this community.

Whilst Jikes RVM is a great project, not even they recommend that it be used as the basis for a JVM… that’s why they call themselves an RVM and not a JVM! I wouldn’t want to trust production apps to Jikes RVM.

However, if the Harmony developers can reconcile themselves with the Jikes RVM licence (from memory, it’s GPL) then they are free to take as much Jikes RVM code as they like, and there’s a lot of good stuff there.

1) SUN’s JDK does NOT run on alternative OSes such as free BSDs.

2) I’ve imagine that integrating JVM into OS kernel may happen one day. (part of the JVM functionality just like a scheduler and VM manager for java program, tie it to the OS may improve preformance, good to have one instead of running one on top of the other). SUN’s license model won’t work.

Since Sun is rapidly going the way of SCO, the only way we’re going to get clearly free Java is either that the Harmony project eventually forces Sun to OSS Java, or Harmony will OSS it whether Sun likes it or not.

I can’t believe that people like you actually exist.

Do you have any idea about the Java “scene” and it’s

relationship to the Apache project ?

Any “real world” (read not open-source kiddie) Java

developer knows that the Apache project is nothing but

a bunch of clueless crybabies that take great pride

in dumping their poo (read 99% of the Jakarta output)

on the world. Of course, they are getting blasted left

and right by the Java community the only ppl actually

thinking that their products are worth a shit being

cs undergrads-open-source zealots. Harmony project

won’t force Sun to do anything. The Apache group

has proved again again that it does not possess the

skills needed for such a big project. They’re doing what

i predicted they would, begging for code from companies.

So, please wake up and smell the carcass. In the real

world every Java developer is laughing at these idiots.

It may well take five years, but remember – the reference implementation is already done by Sun. All Harmony has to do is code to the spec – they don’t have to design anything. And even if it takes five years, so what? Five is better than ten, and ten is better than never which is what Sun is apparently intending.

If we check the Apache group’s past output, Harmony will

take more than 5 years assuming some company drops some

code their way. Even then it will be nothing but a bunch

of shit molded together and offered to the OSS kiddies

for consumption. In the meantime, the Java spec will

evolve beyond recongition and noone in their right mind

would use a 6-year old obsolete codebase when the “real”

(read Sun Java) thing is there and it works, is well

documented and supported. I guess these things don’t mean

much to the OSS inbreds, after all they’re used to

picking up shit and using it, often with a smile.