Home > Debian > Debian Dissension Gets Louder Debian Dissension Gets Louder Thom Holwerda 2005-08-09 Debian 16 Comments The Debian Common Core Alliance hasn’t even been formally announced yet at LinuxWorld in San Francisco this week, and already one of its prospective members, VA Linux Japan, is explaining why it isn’t joining. About The Author Thom Holwerda Follow me on Twitter @thomholwerda 16 Comments 2005-08-09 6:48 pm As Ian Murdoch says right in the article, he hopes that DCCA will become a subproject of Debian. If not, the goals can remain the same with a different name (the idea is to keep all of these derived distros close to Sarge so they can run the same software – a worthy goal no matter who sponsors it). Who knows what VA Linux Japan’s real motivations are or aren’t. They haven’t even made the DCCA announcement yet, how about we wait until we find out what it actually is before we start harping on “dissension”? 2005-08-09 7:08 pm what is it with that picture of an ugly bird in all of eweek’s articles that link to Linux stories? Some kind of deathly mutated penguin maybe? 2005-08-09 8:16 pm pravda The penguin is on the screen now. In all its glory. http://wip.warnerbros.com/marchofthepenguins/ http://imdb.com/title/tt0428803/ If only the penguin people had half the heart of real penguins… 😉 2005-08-09 7:15 pm There are some threads in the mailing lists of debian-project. As there was written/told DCCA is not a project/organisation/whatever created right out from Debian. And only then it could be called Debian(D)CCA. And because there is “some” financial interest I am against such an Alliance. I have a serious anxiety that all the big corps which are making Linux a heartbeat of their biz will be damaging Linux in some form or other. There are already distris for the biz. Debian doesnt need to become such a distri. But everyone on this planet has the freedom to make a customized distri from Debian to fulfill biz needs:This is the purpose of Free Software(TM). 2005-08-09 7:27 pm There are already distris for the biz. Debian doesnt need to become such a distri. But everyone on this planet has the freedom to make a customized distri from Debian to fulfill biz needs:This is the purpose of Free Software(TM). And now some of the companies that are doing so are coming together to make sure they keep a common core, and thus remain compatible both with each other and official Debian, instead of splintering off into fifty incompatible flavors. Horrors, horrors! What a terrible idea. Whether DCCA will become a subproject of Debian, as Ian Murdoch, the leader of this effort and founder of Debian wants… or whether (once again) a few loonies on debian-devel (never the majority) will go nuts over this and refuse to grant their blessing forcing Ian to change the name of the DCCA to something else… is irrelevent. What matters is the idea of Debian derived distros coming together to ensure compatibility between themselves and Debian, so they don’t splinter off as they’ve currently done. And that’s just a good idea no matter who’s for it or against it, and whether they think business is a dirty word or not. 2005-08-09 7:29 pm And it’s not just companies. LinEx is apparently joining too, and I’m sure others are interested. Retaining compatibility is a good idea whether you’re a corporate-owned or community distro. 2005-08-09 10:18 pm Syntaxis “Whether DCCA will become a subproject of Debian, as Ian Murdoch, the leader of this effort and founder of Debian wants… or whether (once again) a few loonies on debian-devel (never the majority) will go nuts over this and refuse to grant their blessing forcing Ian to change the name of the DCCA to something else…” No, the dissenters on -devel can safely be said to speak for the majority of the developers on this issue. Anyone ridiculing those raising the objections obviously doesn’t understand trademark law. Failure to actively defend the trademark could result in losing the trademark altogether, at which point “Debian” could be used to refer to anything and everything and much confusion would abound. Either SPI will officially sanction the usage of the Debian mark in this specific context (which Ian should have applied for *before* using the name) or else the name should be changed to avoid any possibility of people forming the mistaken belief that the DCCA is somehow officially associated with the Debian Project itself. In fact, in http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2005/08/msg00036.html, Ian promised: “We won’t use the word Debian in the name–we’ll call ourselves the DCC Alliance, where DCC stands for “Debian Common Core”. Which is completely absurd, because the new name obviously still *does* have Debian in it… 2005-08-09 10:46 pm No, the dissenters on -devel can safely be said to speak for the majority of the developers on this issue. Anyone ridiculing those raising the objections obviously doesn’t understand trademark law. For the record, you are obviously correct and I don’t disagree – Debian needs to defend their trademark or risk losing it. However, this is not what I was referring to. Ian has also stated his intention that DCCA be officially sanctioned by Debian, perhaps as a subproject. I have a very hard time believing that the “loonies” will ever allow this, no matter how much sense it makes. But I guess we’ll see. Ian promised: “We won’t use the word Debian in the name–we’ll call ourselves the DCC Alliance, where DCC stands for “Debian Common Core”. Which is completely absurd, because the new name obviously still *does* have Debian in it… Actually it doesn’t, it has the letter D in it. Let it stand for distribution. But that’s neither here nor there. I have no doubt the name issue will be worked out, I doubt anyone on debian-devel doubts that the name issue will be worked out, I doubt Ian Murdoch doubts that the name issue will be worked out – in some satisfactory manner. What’s interesting about the DCC Alliance isn’t the name. 2005-08-09 11:26 pm Syntaxis “However, this is not what I was referring to. Ian has also stated his intention that DCCA be officially sanctioned by Debian, perhaps as a subproject.” It is ludicrous to expect it to be declared an official subproject when it doesn’t even work *with* Debian, let alone within it. The first that the Project heard of the initiative was via the media. The only developers that knew anything about it before that were employees/members of the companies and organizations involved (including the DPL). Communication with the Project as a whole is accomplished via its mailing lists; by not making use of those avenues, those behind the DCCA intentionally kept Debian out of the loop. “I have a very hard time believing that the “loonies” will ever allow this, no matter how much sense it makes.” If they don’t allow it, it’ll be because they don’t think it makes sense. Or, possibly, because they’re pissed off by the actions outlined above. What, specifically, would make them “loonies” as a consequence – the fact that they disagree with you? Anyway, let’s wait and see what happens first. “What’s interesting about the DCC Alliance isn’t the name.” Then what are you riled up about? The major objections against the initiative have little to do with its aims and objectives, but rather its (continued) improper use of the Debian trademark and Ian’s total failure to keep the Project even remotely in the loop. 2005-08-09 8:40 pm ryanpq We at the Symphony OS Project are also planning to use this base. Though we are not an official DCCA member, at least yet, I spoke with Ian a while back (before all this DCCA stuff started hiting the news sites) and discussed componentized linux and Symphony. It has since been decided that our next release will be based on componentized linux and the common core, partly due to the DCCA news. The idea of maintaining compatibility with other debian based distros has always been important to us and the DCCA is definately going in the right direction. Regardless of the name that gets used, this is a good thing as it is not just a group of corps and a closed little club like UnitedLinux was but rather it is an inclusive group with non-profits and for-profits working towards a common goal. 2005-08-09 8:46 pm pravda I hope for the sake of your efforts not going to waste that “whatever the name ends up” stops screwing up so much so early. To date, “whatever the name ends up” has all the feel of UnitedLinux. Starting with a goofy name and ending up alienating everyone because of a dumb land grab by a few greedy players on the inside. Or perhaps “whatever the name ends up” is a insider operation funded by Microsoft to derail Debian much as SuSE was screwed with UnitedLinux? The Microsoft angle would explain very well some of the players and why so many people are opting out. 2005-08-09 9:28 pm The Microsoft angle would explain very well some of the players and why so many people are opting out. Congratulations! You are officially the biggest troll on OSNews. And that ain’t easy! Quite an accomplishment. 2005-08-09 9:40 pm VA Linux has not ruling out ever joining the DCC. VA Linux has not ruled out ever joining the DCC. 2005-08-09 9:58 pm Its funny… DCCA is going to help promote debian. Ian, the debian founder and parial name sake (deb = debbie, his partner, ian = Ian) is heading alot of this and the debian devs get their nickers in a twist of the use of the name. Anything that seems it might enhance debian and remove it from the decaying stagnating steench hole its in, seems to be received with cries, whaling and nashing of teeth… Hence why I never use it or recommend it. *welcomes OpenSuSE* 2005-08-09 10:26 pm Syntaxis “*welcomes OpenSuSE*” You’re obviously trolling, because Novell/Suse have the exact same attitude with regards to uses of their trademarks in contexts which might lead to dilution of their brand. From http://www.novell.com/company/legal/trademarks/permission.html: “Novell does not object to your making referential use of our product names (but not logos), provided the use is not misleading as to Novell sponsorship, affiliation or endorsement of your company, or your products or services.” 2005-08-10 6:45 pm Smartpatrol A unified and standardized Debian Linux Distro imagine that! Its about time someone got smart about organizing Debian to suceed. If they pull it off it brings Debian into the ranks of Suse and RedHat as prefered enterprise Linux.