Home > Microsoft > Did Bill Gates Invent Linux and Has He Erased the Evidence? Did Bill Gates Invent Linux and Has He Erased the Evidence? Submitted by LinuxFanBoy 2005-10-24 Microsoft 85 Comments “Someone has started rearranging content on the Internet to suit their own purposes and the culprit might be a convicted monopolist. This article examines some compelling evidence and asks Congress to investigate.” About The Author Thom Holwerda Follow me on Twitter @thomholwerda 85 Comments 2005-10-24 3:56 pm Seriously… WTF?!?! 2005-10-24 3:58 pm I don’t think so. The links show that redirects do exist, espeically on the Washington Post article. Looks like the investigative work was done thoroughly. 2005-10-24 3:56 pm Seems like another “poor me Linux” story with one exception. I tried the link on the washington Post and it definitely has a redirect tag. Microsoft makes good products and has the dominant share of the OS and office market. Nothing has ever stopped them including the government. So, it doesn’t make sense for them to mess around – if indeed they are. I’m not sure this isn’t some set of coincidences with no common thread. 2005-10-24 4:19 pm archiesteel Astroturfing is real – there are documented cases of fake grassroots movements set up by MS. Knowing this, it if very reasonable to assument that MS employees regularly post pro-MS messages in web sites such as this one. After all, I know very little Windows users who actually like Microsoft. The vast majority of them use Windows because they need to, not because they want to. Even those that aren’t bothered by MS’s antics don’t see the need to go out of their way and spend their precious time defending a multi-billion dollar company. This, in my view, tends to make most pro-MS postings suspicious. Sure, they can’t all be from MS employees, but I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them were (especially anonymous ones…) 2005-10-24 7:03 pm “Microsoft makes good products and has the dominant share of the OS and office market.” Having both those statements in the same sentence suggests a cause and effect which is wholly inaccurate. They’re mutually exclusive. That Microsoft has dominated the OS and office suite markets is indisputable. How they got that way is, and it sure as hell isn’t because they make good products. Windows has always been a cobbled together pile of junk, and MS Office is a memory pig, full of features that most people will never use. 2005-10-24 3:57 pm siebharinn What we need are some FOSS tinfoil hats. 2005-10-24 4:01 pm You need to read the article. 2005-10-24 4:18 pm Smartpatrol But it wasn’t bill gates! it was reptilian aliens living under the ground of major airports areound the world. Its all part of their global scheme to take over the world. 2005-10-24 6:28 pm dammit, you found me us out didn’t you. funny that you cannot see me since i am a 4th dimensional creature funny that no one believes you.. 2005-10-24 4:35 pm Milo_Hoffman Umm…..Al Gore called….he would like to take issue with this version of history. 2005-10-24 4:38 pm Milo_Hoffman >Knowing this, it if very reasonable to assument that MS >employees regularly post pro-MS messages in web sites >such as this one. From what I understand Microsoft has quite a nice little bonus program setup for their employees that contribute to sites such as Ars, OSNews, USENET groups etc and function as Microsoft advocates. Hell, someone has to do it, you can’t find more than 3 people outside of Redmond that would post anything positive about them. After all, if you can’t get real honest lovin, then you can spend your money and buy some whoring. 2005-10-24 4:46 pm OPEN SOURCE IS REALLY A REPTILIAN PLOT SO THAT THEY CAN GET ALL THE GOVERNMENTS TO SWITCH FROM PROPRIETARY TO OPEN SOURCE SOLUTIONS SO THAT THEY CAN REPLACE KEY HEADS OF STATE WITH REPTILIAN IMPOSTORS I MEAN THIS IS JUST COMMON SENSE PEOPLE 2005-10-24 4:47 pm The author just found out two things, Microsoft exaggerated the Linux threat back when the where being sued for anti competitive behavior and that URLs can brake after 7 or 8 years. The author then goes to build up some crackpot conspiracy based on those two shocking facts. Do your brain a favor and don’t read it. 2005-10-24 9:24 pm archiesteel You could also have titled your e-mail: “don’t look at the man behind the curtain!” Just because some theories have conspiracy elements in them doesn’t mean they’re not true, conspiracies do exist. Just ask John McCain about his illegitimate black child… 2005-10-24 10:46 pm >You could also have titled your e-mail: “don’t look at the man behind the curtain!” >Just because some theories have conspiracy elements in them doesn’t mean they’re not true, conspiracies do exist. Just ask John McCain about his illegitimate black child… If this turns out to be the future tone of OSNEW I am not coming back. 2005-10-25 4:43 am archiesteel I’m not sure what you mean, exactly. Are you talking about my comment (in which case you probably misunderstood it), or about the original poster’s? I’m sorry but your post is a bit ambiguous. 2005-10-25 9:41 am >I’m not sure what you mean, exactly. Are you talking about my comment (in which case you probably misunderstood it), or about the original poster’s? Both actually, if your post was meant as sarcasm I do apologize. There are some other posts that seriously sound like they believe such theories and sarcasm is harder to detect in writing then in speech. 2005-10-25 5:41 pm archiesteel Actually, my post wasn’t sarcasm in the sense that some conspiracy theories are in fact true, because conspiracies exist. I was giving the example of John McCain because it’s very much linked to current affairs (i.e. Rove being in legal hot water). For those who don’t know or don’t remember, in the 2000 Republican primaries Bush’s electoral machine spread the rumors that John McCain had an illegitimate black child. This despicable lie severely damaged McCain’s candidacy… Or course, one shouldn’t believe in all conspiracy theories, but one shouldn’t dismiss them off-hand either…in the current case, Microsoft has demonstrated precedent in astroturfing. It has the means, the motive and the will to engage in such activities, therefore it is very reasonable to assume that astroturfing still takes place to this very day. Now, as to whether MS would go and remove web pages to cover up their past shenanigans…not impossible, but unlikely. In any case, aren’t there Internet caching sites that can help in retracing these? 2005-10-25 6:26 pm ITPro You are getting sleepy… very sleepy. You are very relaxed. Now listen carefully. Bill Gates is your friend. You can believe Bill Gates. He is honorable and always tells the truth. Everything Bill Gates tells you is true. Anyone who says otherwise is just a crackpot. You should ignore crackpots. They are always wrong and Bill Gates is always right. Bill Gates will tell you all you need to know, all you need to read and all you need to believe. You won’t need anything else. Now, in a moment I will tell you to wake up. After you wake up, you will feel very good about Bill Gates. You will trust Bill Gates implicitly because you know you can always rely on Bill Gates. You don’t want to listen to crackpots. Crackpots are against Bill Gates and make you feel bad and you only want to feel good, so listen only Bill Gates. Ready? Wake up! 😉 2005-10-24 4:48 pm Milo_Hoffman >Sure, they can’t all be from MS employees, but I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them were (especially anonymous ones…) Microsoft also has a bonus program for non-employess who post online and represent the company in a positive way. This is a very well known way to get free MSDN subscriptions, free software and other Microsoft goodies such as an XBOX etc, and also invited for visits to Redmond, etc.. They like to take care of people who are their advocates. Ever since I read how this really works, I look at every post positive of Microsoft with a very skeptical eye. Chances are they either are Microsoft employess or are in the “program”. Their MVP program is a good example of this in action. 2005-10-24 6:30 pm Whoa. Where do I sign up? If I can get a free Xbox while doing what I already do here, I’ll gladly become a paid Microsoft shill. Does anyone know if Apple runs a similar program? 🙂 2005-10-24 8:04 pm dylansmrjones Ohhh Linux Is Poo is around again. The no.1 astroturfer, if your name is any sign of your personality (it might not be, but the name is pretty offensive…) 2005-10-24 8:42 pm Offensive to who? Overly-sensitive ladyboys who are insecure about their OS choice? If someone calls OS X crap, I don’t think twice about it. I label them off as a Linuxtard, and that’s that. Why do Linux people feel like it’s a personal attack on them if I call Linux poo? It’s not a religion, people. 😉 But yeah, now that I know about this Microsoft bonus program, I *wish* I were a real astroturfer. 2005-10-24 9:31 pm ma_d He makes an admission of guilt and you guys moderate it down? Come on. I don’t think the posting guidelines say: “Contains ingenious logic which could make one mess their pants.” Really, there’s room for humor I think. Even sarcastic humor. Of course, I think there is an argument for modding him down just for his name. It is a bit offensive in any thread involving Linux. 2005-10-24 11:04 pm Yeah, but I’ve learned to accept the closed-minded, single-track mindset of the common Linux user. So much for openness. 😉 2005-10-24 8:07 pm dylansmrjones The fact that post got modded down to -2 proves that the windows zealots are working again. The post from Milo_Hoffman breaks absolutely NO RULES. People may disagree, but that doesn’t mean they have the moral right to mod it down. It should be possible to see which profiles mod you down. This way we can eliminate the abuse. BTW: Writing a negative statement about Gnome can be dangerous too. Even when you provide links proving you claims. Combine it with criticism of Windows and Mac in the same post, with links to prove your claim. And you’ll be at -5 before you know it 2005-10-24 9:19 pm morgoth Yup. You are spot on. Dave 2005-10-24 11:35 pm dylansmrjones And then it got 2 minus point :p Typical… a zealot came by… 2005-10-25 12:51 am japail Your post is off-topic meta-whining about moderation. I’m abstaining from moderating it 1. because I don’t care 2. because I don’t like moderating discussions I participate in. If someone moderates this entire thread into oblivion, though, I wouldn’t shed a single tear. 2005-10-25 12:47 am japail Any comment that is pure flamebait deserves to be modded straight into oblivion. Posting outlandish comments with no depth that only serve to express disdain for products or businesses without any substantive reasoning or evidence whatsoever are junk. Plain and simple. No one cares what you think sucks. 2005-10-25 12:44 am japail Ever since I learned that Redhat provides free Linux for anyone willing to post positive comments about Linux on the Internet, I’ve had to look twice at every comment that’s pro-Linux. Evidence, boy! I’m sure lots of people are chomping at the bit to sign up for a free XBox. 2005-10-24 4:50 pm http://www.asciiartfarts.com/conspiracy_duck.html 2005-10-24 5:36 pm If you can’t beat Microsoft sue’em. For all the Linux zealots out there: Yes, not only are black helicopters flying over your house at nidnight, but there are dragons in those windmills. Geesh! What a bunch of losers… 2005-10-24 8:09 pm dylansmrjones Here we have an example of windows zealotry. However there are no evidence so far of Linux zealotry. I haven’t seen Linux zealotry on OSNews for days. Now, Thom or Eugenia. Do something about it. 2005-10-24 8:57 pm sappyvcv No evidence of linux zealotry? You have got to be kidding me. 2005-10-24 10:01 pm dylansmrjones Weee… you woke up Come with some statements you consider as linux zealotry Perhaps we agree on the term, perhaps we don’t. Hard to say when I don’t know how you use the term 2005-10-24 10:11 pm sappyvcv Well no linux zealoty on this article, but there is anti-MS zealotry. “Hell, someone has to do it, you can’t find more than 3 people outside of Redmond that would post anything positive about them.” 2005-10-24 10:13 pm sappyvcv Oh, and of course, “Everyone whose IQ exceeds room temperature has chosen FREEDOM by using Mozilla, Open Office, Star Office, Abiword, and some of the 16,000 other free programs and applications that run on the 600+ Open Source, FREE Operating Systems found at http://livecdlist.com and http://distrowatch.com and supported by the 670+ Linux Users Groups at ” rel=”nofollow”>http://lugww.counter.li.org” 2005-10-24 11:39 pm dylansmrjones Look in the thread (not our subthread but the mainthread) and you’ll find quite a few windows zealots, if this one is something you consider zealotry. I don’t really consider it zealotry. It’s very biased, but it’s not fanatical. I’m very strict in regard to use the words with their proper meaning. But I see your point. 2005-10-25 12:04 am sappyvcv No doubt there are windows/anti-foss zealots in this thread, definitely more-so than the opposite in this particular thread. It may not be zealotry strictly speaking, but I’d put it in the same category, unneccesary, immature and annoying. It’s easier to just group both, because both should be discouraged. 2005-10-25 12:22 am dylansmrjones I can agree to unneccesary, immature and annoying. That’s a very good way to put it. Immature… uhmm.. that’s the one… 2005-10-24 5:36 pm smileaf Why do people seem to think that MS needs to be the center of every good computer idea? sure they’ve had numerous good things in the company. this isn’t saying that they came up with them. most of them(if not all I don’t know) no doubt where because they bought out a company. I’m no windows supporter. but they have put numerous ideas to very good uses. This linux idea however is not one of them. they may have used linux to say “see we are not the only OS therefor we don’t have a monopoly.” And they’d be correct. In fact it’s not a bad idea. pick a small OS that you don’t for see any small indirect advertisements help them too much. And use them as a case. Had they picked a larger one like solaris people would have thought “what? they are in the server market.. what a dumb idea” If they used a larger desktop market like macs and it might have gotten too much attention and hurt them. The title of this article was very poorly put and really gives you the misintention that its saying they invented linux. No its really saying that they made linux up to be something it wasn’t at that time for the sake of the case. After all that said. I want the however much time I wasted reading this article back. I could have used it do something much more productive. However as a side note to any OSNews admins.. please get rid of that autorefresh thing or have it disabled if the comment box has focus… good thing konq saved what I was typing or I might have been a little mad that I had wasted time not only reading this. but also typing this out only to have accomplished nothing, thank you! 2005-10-24 5:39 pm lasermike026 This article is area 51, elvis, and the illuminati all rolled into a Crichton novel. Move along, there is nothing to see here. Move along. 2005-10-24 8:53 pm Move along, there is nothing to see here. Move along. Why is it that the bulk of people who do not agree with this article want to prevent other people from reading it? While I agree that building a conspiracy out of the shifting tides of the Internet, this article does make at least one valid point: since the information is always in the hands of the creator (unless you save a copy, which people rarely do), then it is able to disappear or be modified at their whim. Sometimes these changes will be well intentioned (eg. corrections), but there is the possibility of malicious acts. 2005-10-24 5:44 pm Yes, a Microsoft con game rewarding people who spread FUD could explain all the “Free XBox” spams/pop-ups/banners!? But, what do you expect of the world’s biggest multiple convicted THIEF and PIRATE?! Because they employ many bean counters, MS knows, and is alarmed at, the number of intelligent entities on the planet, who won’t bow to the emperor of the Evil Empire, and will NOT acknowledge the “Emperor’s New Clothes”! Everyone whose IQ exceeds room temperature has chosen FREEDOM by using Mozilla, Open Office, Star Office, Abiword, and some of the 16,000 other free programs and applications that run on the 600+ Open Source, FREE Operating Systems found at http://livecdlist.com and http://distrowatch.com and supported by the 670+ Linux Users Groups at http://lugww.counter.li.org It’s an uprising by 168 nations, 490 of the Fortune 500’s, melded with hundreds of millions of commoners! Me thinks the Felonious Evil Empire doth protest too much!? Do not trust, nor have business with, convicted felons, and, especially, Un-reformed, repeat Felons! 2005-10-24 6:12 pm JeffS Astroturfing is very, very real, and a very savvy strategy, quite frankly. Seriously, pretty much everyone dislikes Microsoft. What real person is going to defend a convicted monopolist and IP thief and multi billion dollar company who treats it’s customers like crap, on a message board? As another poster said, most people use MS products because they have to, and most people don’t like how MS treats them, and are not satisfied with MS products. That is reality. I work for a small software company that develops Windows oriented software (and connects to other platforms), and among my duties is training and support of resellers and end customers (+ programming and web development). I deal with a lot of customers daily, and have been doing so for 7 years. In those 7 years, I have not heard one single positive comment about Microsoft. Not one. These are just IT professionals, technical sales people, etc, all of whom just want to get their jobs done and have no political axe to grind, or don’t care about platform or language wars. And all of them, I mean all of them, are usually annoyed, if not totally disgusted, with Microsoft. That is reality. So, it is very savvy for MS to have paid astroturfers, who create a false “grass roots” support, and throw discussion threads into flame wars where people who make pro-Linux posts are called “zealots”, “commies”, “basement dwelling nerds”, etc. 2005-10-24 7:42 pm You’re correct, astroturfing is real. However, that does not validate every claim in that article. The author was just rambling on, and sometimes accidentally wrote something that’s true. Or sometimes included facts, ro raise his credulity. However, all his inferences are unsubstantiated, wild guesses. His conclusions are disconnected from his arguments, and he makes lots of insinuations without backing them up. The only thing I learned reading this was, that the Internet is an ever-changing body of information. 2005-10-24 6:25 pm I’m not a big fan of Microsoft for many reasons. I don’t like their flawed products, greed, or ways of doing business. On the other hand, Linux gets on my tits because it’s just as bad in its own way. Whether it’s the slick manipulators from Microsoft, or the juvenile idiots from Linux, both can take a hike. What I’d like to see from both parties is a sense they’re not the centre of the universe, and there’s been a little movement from both camps on this, and that should be acknowledged. If you don’t throw someone a bone when they do something right, you run the risk of them giving up on bothering. To be honest, this is a war, and it’s a war I really don’t want either side to win. Both have issues I don’t want to be sucked in to, which makes me wonder if there isn’t space out here for a third party to sneak in and grab the lead. Apple? Sony? Both have their supporters and neither is perfect. 2005-10-24 9:13 pm jziegler Come on . Don’t judge an OS (where technical qualities and feautures are important) by its fans/foes (where personal qualities get judged). By this measure, OpenBSD and FreeBSD would be some ego-maniacal offensive “go away n00b” OS . (This is an exxageration folks, ok? 2005-10-24 6:36 pm Amazingly stupid article. Pick any subject from 1999 and go try to find links that were current and working back then and you’ll find that most of them no longer work. Web sites change, they change content management software, they move their archives around, they go out of business. If it’s a conspiracy it’s a conspiracy that affects the entire web and every single topic. Has this moronic writer never used the web before for research? If the question is, ‘Does Microsoft astroturf?’ we know that the answer is a resounding yes. There’s simply no argument about it, there’s a trail of fake grassroots groups setup by PR firms that stretches from the anti-trust days through today. This is despicable behavior once reserved for tobacco companies hiding the truth about cancer ties, but it’s just standard PR industry practice these days and nothing particular to Microsoft. For Internet astroturfing in particular, there is also a body trail leading back to Microsoft; for those with short memories I refer you to the Usenet archives and a string of incidents where MS employees were uncovered posting false information with false identities. I think we all suspect, but cannot prove, that this practice continues to this day. But if the question is, ‘Is Microsoft deliberately making links from 1999 hard to follow in 2005?’ then the answer is simple – the writer is a moron. 2005-10-24 6:47 pm bill gates develops quality OS’s, there’s no way he developed a POS like linux – 16 year old boys who couldn’t get laid did. 2005-10-24 7:07 pm “bill gates develops quality OS’s, there’s no way he developed a POS like linux – 16 year old boys who couldn’t get laid did.” You sound like one of them. Oh, and a quality OS? Haa haa haa haa haa!!! 2005-10-24 6:49 pm jtrapp Hey, about 25% of my posts both here and elsewhere (the law of averages at work) are pro MS in some fashion–how do I get a free Xbox? In a more serious vein, I don’t think anyone ever doubted that Billy Gates and Co. exaggerated the desktop linux threat. (But if ever a self-fulfilling prophecy should come true, I hope it is this one!) On the mystery of the dead links enigma, come on, let’s be real… Is it only these dead links that are part of the conspiracy, or are the other 50 gazillion dead links on the internet part of the conspiracy too? If Bill Gates happens to be reading this, Windows is the best OS ever, it is perfect and never crashes. You can contact me for the shipping address for the Xbox. 2005-10-24 6:50 pm sappyvcv You mean I could have been getting PAID by Microsoft for actually liking some of their products and defending them sometimes? I doubt they have any offices here in Buffalo, NY though. 2005-10-24 8:13 pm dylansmrjones Hmm… I’m defending them too Even if Microsoft is a company of jerks most the time (Let’s see if you catch this one :p .. we haven’t fought for hours I can always install Linux on the Xbox… or ReactOS :p 2005-10-24 8:56 pm sappyvcv I wouldn’t say they are a company of jerks. I would say they have too many idiotic executives and managers though. I do have bad things to say about them though. – Internet Explorer is outdated and well.. sucks. – MSN Messenger sucks. – Windows 9x series sucked. – Windows XP pre SP1 had some serious networking issues that pissed the living f–k out of me. – They try to get into way too many markets. – They aren’t very considerate of the state of the economy and the average family/person. I know out in the redmond area, the quality of life is a bit higher, so I think most of their employees views on things tend to be a bit skewed. – They were way too late to do something to try and fix their problems with security. Vista is going to be the first true attempt to fix things. XP can only be patched so much. I don’t think they deliberately ignored the problem though. – This also correlates with Vista. They were relying on Vista being the fix and on it being out much sooner. Again, they dropped the ball with pushing it back so much, and then finally having to reset it last year. I think they’re finally on the right track with it, but before it seemed they had little direction with it. 2005-10-25 1:00 am dylansmrjones Well, hang on to your chair sappyvcv… Don’t you think you’re a bit too harsh on MS here? I would say they have too many idiotic executives and managers though. Well, okay I’ll grant you that one. Seems as a reasonable explanation. – Internet Explorer is outdated and well.. sucks. Aahh… I wouldn’t go that far. It’s somewhat outdated in functionality, but it still handles websites in a good manner. It doesn’t suck that much. I just miss the tabs (and no, I won’t install on top-browsers like Avant… eew) – MSN Messenger sucks. I believe I’ve seen applications worse than MSN Messenger. But it could be a lot better. I’d go as far as less-than-optimal. I actually like the possibility to use my own smileys. And it has some drag’n’drop support. But it also has a lot of crap in it. But it’s not completely crap. It can be used. – Windows 9x series sucked. Okay, I’ll grant you this one. I could say a lot worse about 9x, but sucked is okay. 9x was so bad it’s enough explanation for me to understand why some wishes MS gone forever. – Windows XP pre SP1 had some serious networking issues that pissed the living f–k out of me. Perhaps I’m wrong but wasn’t it mostly the home edition that was affected. XP Home is almost as crappy as ME, in my mind. And anyway it got fixed. – They try to get into way too many markets. Granted. MS could do better if they concentrated on fewer markets. I’d like them to work a lot more on refining Windows incrementally (like fixing the scaling bug, better drag and drop support for printing, stuff like that they haven’t solved the flaws appeared in win95) rather than doing all kind of stuff in all directions. I think they should quit MSN search, MSN Messenger and stick to Office and Windows. I believe that would give more resources to these two areas. – They were way too late to do something to try and fix their problems with security. Vista is going to be the first true attempt to fix things. XP can only be patched so much. I don’t think they deliberately ignored the problem though. Well, I can’t say for sure about this since I don’t know the exact economical level for Joe Average and his family. But the prices for some MS applications and services could/should be lower. XP Home was/is pretty expensive in Denmark compared to most other systems. Only true Server OS’es are more expensive. – They were way too late to do something to try and fix their problems with security. Vista is going to be the first true attempt to fix things. XP can only be patched so much. I don’t think they deliberately ignored the problem though. Well, I think they could patch XP as much as they want to. The question is how affordable it would be. There is a certain balance here. Whether or not they ignored the problems intentionally is difficult to say. Some might say that “evidence” shows one thing, other will “evidence” shows another thing. Ripping out the Win3xAPI would probably be good, and then run old Win-applications in an emulator (like running DOS-applications in DOS-Box). Few people still have 16bit Windows applications flying around. This way MS could make it a lot easier to enhance security. – This also correlates with Vista. They were relying on Vista being the fix and on it being out much sooner. Again, they dropped the ball with pushing it back so much, and then finally having to reset it last year. I think they’re finally on the right track with it, but before it seemed they had little direction with it. From the reviews I’ve seen Vista seems like something I’d give an arm to avoid – I still consider an incremental improvement of Win2K3 to be the best approach. But yes, Vista seems to be on a healthier track by now. I still have many misgivings about it, but that’s probably because I’m quite conservative about changes (unless it’s something I’m really screaming for). 2005-10-25 1:15 am sappyvcv Don’t you think you’re a bit too harsh on MS here? Well well, the tables have turned! What’s going on here?! IE: I agree with you actually. I think the rendering engine works rather well and at a decent speed, but they just obvious are outdated on functionality and support. They were ahead of their time with support for a lot of stuff though. MSN: If you install Messenger plus or whatever and get rid of some of the crap on the msn messenger windows, its not so bad. I still don’t really like it though. I do use it though, because I have a few friends that use it exclusively. Windows XP networking: Yeah, home was even worse, but there were some issues with pro that were fixed with SP1. The exact same thing happened to me trying to set up my cable connection with it as did to 2 different friends of mine. After tinkering around for hours, it would eventually work… with the exact same settings we had already tried 5 times. XP Security: it can be patched and patched, but the better solution is a rework of some of the architecture, which they are doing with Vista. I think with Vista they are finally dropping 16-bit application support, but I’m not positive on that. I know I heard something about it. Vista: What are your issues with it? I do agree that too many large changes can be worrying. I’m sort of blindly hoping MS gets these changes right. From what I’ve seen, most changes have potential, so we’ll see. You’d think with some of the comments here though, that these changes we speak of don’t exist. 2005-10-25 8:20 am dylansmrjones Well, sometimes world turns upside down IE: Well, my favourite IE was IE4. IE5 was bloated in my mind – and I didn’t like the new HTML-design we got to see all through Win98, incl. IE. MSN: Yeah, I’m using Messenger Plus, and it makes it okay to use. We have the same feeling about MSN Messenger, and use it of the same reasons. I personally prefer gaim and/or icq (though the newer versions of icq sort of stink a bit). WinXP: I didn’t know that XP Pro had networking issues, but I’m familiar with having luck with settings, that didn’t work 5 hours before. It happens occasionally, though I don’t why. This is true also on *nix platforms. Would be nice if Vista dropped Win16-support. It’s about time to run Win3.x apps in emulators. Win3.1x even runs in DOSBox. So some sort of emulator-sandbox milieu for Win16 would be highly appreciated. My issues with Vista is that apart from being ugly, I just don’t feel sure that MS is actually going the right way. To me it seems like they are trying to do a revolution like they did with Win95, which was quite a disappointment to me, when comparing it to other desktops at that time. I definitely have my misgivings about the graphical engine in Vista and the resource usage. But of course I could be proved wrong 2005-10-25 3:44 am – Internet Explorer is outdated and well.. sucks. Aahh… I wouldn’t go that far. It’s somewhat outdated in functionality, but it still handles websites in a good manner. It doesn’t suck that much. I just miss the tabs (and no, I won’t install on top-browsers like Avant… eew) No, IE do sucks as a webbrowser. The reason why it works with most websites is that people either uses stuff as FrontPage (argh!) which will create “IE-compliant” pages or that professional developers just got fed up with dealing with two CSS for every page on the websites that they handle and just took the shortcut to please the majority of their audience. I can´t stress enough how much time I´ve lost fixing “bugs” on my code in order to make it render “properly” on IE while Mozilla Seamonkey, Firefox, Opera didn´t have any problem with it. Every now and then, I wanted to try some nice tricks using CSS2+, DHTML and PNG transparency and got astounding results on Mozilla (Seamonkey, mind you!) and Opera just to be disappointed by IE. And, basing on what I´ve heard and read so far about IE7, it won´t even fully support PNG properly. IE, as a webbrowser, leaves a lot to be desired… – MSN Messenger sucks. I believe I’ve seen applications worse than MSN Messenger. But it could be a lot better. I’d go as far as less-than-optimal. I actually like the possibility to use my own smileys. And it has some drag’n’drop support. But it also has a lot of crap in it. But it’s not completely crap. It can be used. I have the same feeling about it. I hate all that crap advertisement that you can´t(?) get rid, but it is a somewhat usable application nonetheless. But I still prefer something as Miranda when I´m on Windows, though. Well, I can’t say for sure about this since I don’t know the exact economical level for Joe Average and his family. But the prices for some MS applications and services could/should be lower. XP Home was/is pretty expensive in Denmark compared to most other systems. Only true Server OS’es are more expensive. I don´t think that the average price of the retail version of Windows is that expensive either but I would appreciate a lot if Microsoft were a bit more permissive with its license. Its not unusual, even here in Brazil, for a family to own two or more old computers besides the main one, that could work with XP perfectly but, if you abide by their current EULA, you can only install one copy of the operating system. Perhaps they could change their EULA to allow as much as three installations for non-commercial use (I believe that Apple does something along these lines). It doesn´t have to be applied to all their software, though. Windows and Office would do it. I believe that it would reduce the piracy a bit and also shed a good light on them. DeadFish Man 2005-10-25 8:55 am dylansmrjones Aahh… yeah, well, I was thinking about IE from end user point. IE has a flawed support for PNG, but it ought to be fixed in IE7. If not it’s really embarrasing for MS. Microsoft handles CSS< v.2 rather well, but IE has as FF some issues with CSS2. But it’s only a problem when doing fancy stuff (or as you put “nice tricks”). I’m using the same CSS for all browsers and stick pretty much to HTML4 Strict (with a few exceptions). It works but is a bit dull, but that’s how I like it. I see your point about home users. If you have 3 children and a computer for each and one for the parents, you have to buy 4 licenses. That’s unreasonable in my mind, but the other solution would make activation more difficult (but personally I don’t like that activation stuff, but that’s mostly due to privacy stuff.. nothing major). Another solution would be to sell home licenses at a much lower price, incl. MS Office. 2005-10-24 7:16 pm Lumbergh That’s all Linux advocacy needs – more conspiracy nutjobs. 2005-10-24 7:52 pm rockwell // After all, I know very little Windows users who actually like Microsoft. // Really? How tall are they? As for myself, I know very _few_ people who consult dictionaries before posting. 2005-10-24 9:33 pm archiesteel Sorry for the mistake, but I should mention that English is my second language. Peut-être que tu pourrais nous démontrer tes connaissances en grammaire dans une langue seconde, afin que l’on puisse comparer? Ou tu pourrais simplement la fermer, aussi. C’est à ton choix. 2005-10-24 8:02 pm You mean it wasn’t Santa Claus and the Easter bunny? I was sure the wrote Linux. Or maybe SCO wrote it so that they could sue Linus for making something he didn’t. Or maybe all these kernel hackers are slaves of Steve Jobs. Or maybe all this open source development is just a hoax, and I am living in somebody’s dream. Or maybe, etc, etc. Get my point? 2005-10-24 8:19 pm As a sidenote, I find the extraordinary amount of trolls, trying to ruin the threads on this topic, very very odd. 2005-10-24 8:47 pm Has the author never heard of Occam’s Razor? It slices his argument to shreds. 2005-10-24 9:02 pm Why yes I have, thank you. The simplest explanation is that Microsoft being in control of both media (MSNBC) and search search engine (MSN search) is once again abusing its position (in an another anti trust scam) to make the world see what it wants to see. Funny, that supports his arguments, not “slices” it to “shreds”. What is with this “opposite day” theme going on here? Calling level headed responses to be “zealots”. Claiming buggy software to be “quality”. And now we get someone using a term as though it has the opposite meaning. The term that I understood to mean reversing the negative position toward you into something perceived as a positive position toward you is called “spin”. Isn’t that what we just read over the last 3 pages of comments? These previous trolling comments only give credit to this article. 2005-10-24 11:44 pm n4cer Why yes I have, thank you. The simplest explanation is that Microsoft being in control of both media (MSNBC) and search search engine (MSN search) is once again abusing its position (in an another anti trust scam) to make the world see what it wants to see. Funny, that supports his arguments, not “slices” it to “shreds”. Microsoft has no editorial control over MSNBC/NBC News and there are other search services besides MSN. They have no monopoly in either of these areas and there is no case for antitrust allegations. Going by the majority of responses on this page and others covering some MS-related or competitive technology and in some cases just commercial vs OSS, most posters appear to have less of a grip on reality than Steve Jobs. 2005-10-24 9:13 pm rayiner You know, if the UN does ever take control of the internet, they should at least require people to take an intelligence test before ever being allowed to post something on it… 2005-10-25 12:55 am DigitalAxis I forget who said it, but the comment was something like “Never attribute to malice what simple incompetence can explain” 2005-10-25 1:23 am Methinks that a bunch of someones forgot to put on their tinfoil hats today…. 2005-10-25 1:39 am PrimalDK You who think that it’s worth paying to loose your freedom – as you so willingly do when your great master serves up a new gadget, a more shining paste on your precious monitors. You who think you are on your collective paths to techno-heaven, if only you will bow to the will of the few. You who think that no-one, be it by their ignorance or by their directed will to restrict your freedom, would ever really want to control you. May it be that you should consider your master’s plan. May it be that a company playing only for the money, with no moral, ethic regards, sometimes even disregarding adherence to the law that is the basis of your hardwon freedom and democracy, that this company could endanger not only your freedom but even your lives. Consider what your freedom would have become once you couldn’t trust the appearance of the web anymore. Once you have no way to tell whether the person on your screen is telling you lies to sell you the means of your own distruction. For those who think that this scenario is a remote possibility, please know that the single largest fine ever dealt in the history of mankind related to a product sold to the public, which – scientifically – has been shown to cause cancer and eventually death from suffocation. Is this product banned and shunned? No. Because that kind of freedom is indeed precious to you – the freedom to blow you minds and kill yourselves, the freedom to close you eyes and know nothing of the dealings of others. The freedom for others to tie your hands, gag you to silence, drown your ears with your own resounding “Yes!” to the rule of the one Master. The only reason you would trade your freedom for such lax comfort is your choice to be blind, and it is that same blindness that allows others to control your lives, as the few have controlled and exploited the many for millenia. Your think freedom is won by lack of knowledge? By the restriction of information to spread? Read a few history books on the practiced principles behind dictatorship and tyrany, opression and quenching of all but the adhering disciples, then understand where you are once again headed. Only, this time you know you are – because information flows freely. For now. Power indeed corrupts. Those who disagree are the powerless who lust for the power that others have – so that they may once again have freedom. So that they may once again be free. Free from a tyrany they themselves fabricated. But maybe freedom is not so precious after all. 2005-10-25 2:22 am Soulbender “It has also disappeared from the Internet and my personal backups.” Yeah, they used death rays to selectively erase it from your offline backups. 2005-10-25 3:32 am dylansmrjones Read the comments to the article. The author clearly states his backups were online backups placed on a server. It was NOT offline backups. 2005-10-25 4:44 am Soulbender Who cares? It’s just as silly a claim. Someone broke into the online backup server and selectively erased anti-MS stuff? Yah right, and the Pope is protestant. I’m certainly no MS fan and I dont want to rain on anyones crazy conspiracy parade but it’s a bullshit article that is in no way newsworthy material or even fit for publising. 2005-10-25 6:41 am kmarius That guy has some paranoia issues. One example: “In September 2004, I began to notice a change in certain Google search results. As I managed a number of news sites, I discovered MSN’s search bot repeatedly hitting URL’s with little to no value. That resulted in moving non-sense higher in the results of Google searches while moving more relevant materials further out of the Google’s data base […] I immediately began to wonder if Microsoft had actually used their search technology to change the relevance of any data they pleased.” How could MSN’s search bot influence Google? Google doesn’t know which pages it has visited, unless Google is secretly controlled by Microsoft 🙂 2005-10-25 7:23 am Soulbender “Someone has started rearranging content on the Internet to suit their own purposes and the culprit might be a convicted monopolist.” There’s no way for a single entity to “rearrange the content” of “the internet”. “Unfortunately, Microsoft’s document no longer resides on the Internet.” Oh my GOD!!! Microsoft removed one of their own documents from their servers! Call the internet police! Alternatively you can just find it at archive.org: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://linuxtoday.com/it_management/1999120100704NW So much for someone rearragning the internet… Perhaps people would take osnews more seriously if total baloney like this article wasn’t considered “news”. 2005-10-25 7:26 am Soulbender Err, wrong URL: “http://web.archive.org/web/20000303042319/ 2005-10-25 7:27 am Soulbender Nice, posting archie.org url’s dont work. Good job. 2005-10-25 12:10 pm Do anyone know of a site that collects facts about Microsoft in a methodic professional way? What I would like to see is a list of – convictions – settlements – questionable practises such as o tie ins o price dumping o astroturfing o anti competitive code o privacy intrusion code o tampered studies Each claim should be factual and evidence should be provided. Perhaps if more people knew about the practises of Microsoft they would be less willing to rely on them. If anyone knows of a site like this please let me know, otherwise please create one. 2005-10-25 2:29 pm Windows98… Works here. Never a reinstall, tweaked 101 and one ways, … runs firefox, vlc, stateful firewall, dual-boots to BSD, never crashes for hours at a time, [granted, 100’s of hours of nail-biting tweak-testing to prevent incessant crashes]… 2005-10-25 11:08 pm JLF65 never crashes for hours at a time, [granted, 100’s of hours of nail-biting tweak-testing to prevent incessant crashes]… Okay, it can run for “hours at a time” now that you have spent “100’s of hours of nail-biting tweak-testing to prevent incessant crashes.” Sounds like a pretty lousy OS to me. I’d rather have an OS that runs for months at a time with no nail-biting or tweaking at all. 2005-10-25 3:17 pm I don’t know if this is what you’re looking for but it’s the only one I know of. http://www.f–kmicrosoft.com/content/whatsbad.shtml 2005-10-25 6:09 pm pjjmartin This guy didn’t just drink the Kool Aid, he went back for seconds.