“Apple dropped a bombshell on music makers today by acquiring Emagic which, with Steinberg, dominates the market for sequencing software. Apple said it will axe the Windows version of Emagic’s Logic sequencer come September.” Read the report at TheRegister.
Apple Drops Emagic Bombshell
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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seems like the only way to get along in this industry these days is to ‘do as MS does’.
Although I have no real objection to Apple or anybody else (for that matter) buying another company, I have to take notice when said company immediately states it will ‘cease supporting x product for x platform’.
You simply have to question the motives.
Heh! despite being a muso’ this still wont make me want to go out and buy a Mac.
while i think this sucks for all of the PC users of logic, i must say i find it to be poetic justice. By doing this apple is using an MS style tactic to make the PC less desirable as a music platform. Or you could say they are making OS x and apple more desirable. Microshaft is also getting what it deserves. Apple’s obvious focus on the audio/video market is cool because Windows leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to pro-audio (yes that includes windblows XP), and MS obviously does not care much about the pro and semi-pro audio market.
My note to steve jobs is this
Pick up Waves, Bomb Factory, and/or Universal audio’s UAD-1 product line next and you’ll really screw over MS. Waves is probably the best choice since the native power packs are staples in any audio diet. PC users will have even fewer and suckier choices for plug-ins. Without good plug-ins, Windows will blow even harder for audio apps.
The cutting of the Windows version seems to make sense to me. Why waste development costs on a minority platform? If 2/3 of the users used Windows then then I could see a problem. I tend to wonder why only 1/3 of the users use Windows when Windows is the domination OS.
Can i assume that the PC version of samplitude, which emagic took over, will also be dropped?
Won’t bias, Steinberg, MOTU (mark of the unicorn)and digidesign (pro-tools)react somewhat negatively to this? I sure hope that apple is doing damage control behind the scenes to reassure them that apple will play fair, which i don’t doubt.
If yours were the logic (no pun intended) of application developers Mac Office simply wouldn’t exist. It would not be worth the development costs of Office (for example) for a platform with approx 5% of the market share.
Apple won’t ‘cease the development’ of the Windows version for reasons financial viability. This is purely and simply (latency issues aside) to entrench Apple as the ‘Media platform of choice’. Its a ‘visibility’ thing.
just my own 2 grobbs and duketts
I think, having built Apple back up from the near-nether world, Jobs believes the time to strike is now. Despite the huge slowdown in computer sales (of the major companies, at least), Apple is in pretty good shape. I have noticed that many companies are beginning to feel their oats, not fearing Microsoft as they once did. They see there is elbow room now to try some new things without fear of Microsoft reprisals.
“Microshaft is also getting what it deserves”
The people that will be suffering, again, is the consumer.
I don’t remember who it was that said all corporations are evil but I agree with them. Another episode of Corporate Chess where the regular Joe is the pawn, ready to be sacrificed at a moments notice without a second thought.
Ironically, I think back to Apple’s 1984 ad campaign where they tried hard to make us think that they were not Big Brother. How odd that in 2002 we should have at least two Big Brother’s. And you’re not safe with either of them.
“The people will suffer.”
Not much. Steinberg, and cakewalk will almost certainly run out and offer emagic PC users a nice cheap upgrade to cubase or Sonar. Moreover, Logic users can still use their program. The problem comes in when you have to upgrade and then you can upgrade to cubase. Who knows, Apple may still offer support to PC users even though they say they’ll discontinue selling the PC version. Plus we really don’t know what apple intends to offer those PC users. Perhaps they’ll be offered a cheap cross grade to an apple. I don’t know but as the register said it hard to imagine that they won’t.
You know, I love osnews.com but why would they reference a site as slanted as theregister.co.uk as the source when BOTH Apple and Emagic have official announcements on their sites?
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2002/jul/01emagic.html
Because this is where I got the news first time when I woke up this morning. If I had found it on Apple’s site, I would have linked there.
As for the person who wrote the article, is a personal friend of mine (in “real” life
so be careful how you talk over here.
Whoa. I own an apple but don’t you think apple is acting kinda… err.. like microsoft?
Why is it that people seem to equate something good for Apple as being bad for MS? It’s not like Apple is trying to better it’s position as the best platform for creative work just to “stick it” to MS.
As someone pointed out, out of the users of Logic, only 1/3 of them use it under Windows. The Mac has been traditionally very strong in many of the creative areas, like music and graphics design.
Some of these 1/3 may switch to the Mac so they can use their beloved Logic. A lot won’t- they’ll continue using their current version of Logic until they have to switch to some similar Windows app because of the new features. MS won’t be loosing almost any money on the deal, nor will Apple be gaining some huge amount of marketshare. Apple is simply trying to gain back what has been a very strong niche for them in the past.
It’s old news that the consumer loses. What is good for corporations is almost never good for the consumer. Corporations aren’t interested in you, just your money. Of course, it’s always been a balance between how much you can overcharge and how many customers you’ll lose over it. You can euphimize that all you want, but the principle remains the same.
For-profit coroprations exist to make money. I thought this is pretty common knowledge. If it is, why do so many people get surprised when a business does something to better their position to make money? If you don’t like it, stand up and quit being such a devout little supporter-consumer of Corporate America.
Big muthafriggin difference between Apple doing this versus MS doing it. MS has ~98% marketshare and is OFFICIALLY a monopoly, where as Apple is not OFFICIALLY a monopoly. Remember it is not illeagle to HAVE a monopoly it is illeagle to ABUSE it. Which is what MS would have been doing had they tried Apples little stunt.
try buying a Mac that’s not made by Apple. Microsoft doesn’t make PC’s and you can build your own PC that doesn’t have Windows.
I simply cannot believe this! Arse! Bought Logic 5 for Windows three weeks ago. I use it all the time. Feckin’ bolloxy arse!!!!!!
<calm down, dude>
Sorry for the lack of anything constructive or interesting in the post – I’m just pissed off.
I’ve been a loyal Cakewalk user for about 3 years now, and I’m about to upgrade to Sonar. Sonar is far and away the best program out there for Windows…even tho I now do just about everything else on Linux. Every version of Logic I’ve tried has crashed my system, but Cakewalk has never even whinced at the things I ask it to do. And I won’t give up Windows because I can’t stomach ProTools (another MS-style monopoly, if you ask me), and the elitist attitude of their user base. So I’m sticking with Windows and Cakewalk/Sonar for multitrack & MIDI recording…at least until there’s a Linux alternative on the scene. But I won’t hold my breath.
“Microsoft doesn’t make PC’s and you can build your own PC that doesn’t have Windows.”
What about the new stuff w/ longhorn? Microsoft does force ppl to use Windows (Look at how they killed beos).
Apple has not been convicted, ergo apple is not a monopoly.
Apple has such a small market share, so they can be anti-competitive (because they are not a monopoly)! Apple has the greater product, has the better hardware, yet they still have a small market share. So i’d assume MS, (Who has stolen their code to quicktime, who has stolen IP of others) not apple is the monopoly…
I’d rather like to see good product around no matther if they are commercial, free or opensource, but you can’t code good product if you have to make sure that the underlying OS won’t crash just because you ask for some resource, or that has loads of undocumented APIs that you must use if you want to have speed (since they will be loaded with the OS, no matter if you need them or not…)
So if some software houses just drop support on win32 is good just only if the reason is because they need something better and eventually they find it.
I like Cakewalk most, and also use Finale – which is a real nice way to do sequencing, BTW.
(But I mostly work under BeOSwith one of the best sequencers, and certainly THE Best free sequencer: Sequitur).
“Doesn’t really matter…Logic sucked anyway…RIP”
I’ve used cakewalk since version 6 and have heard that logic on the PC had stability issues. Cubase has had plenty of problems on the PC as well. In the PC world, i think you are best off with cakewalk or (for audio) sonic foundry vegas. Vegas is very impressive. Both cakewalk and sonic foundry optimize those programs for windblows.
I don’t know that you have to use pro-tools though if you choose apple. Logic was always better on apple and so was cubase. there is also bias deck if you don’t need midi and Motu performer. With products like universal audio’s UAD-1 powered plug-ins out, i think pro-tools will hurt more.
With all the purchases of high-end software audio/video software, Apple’s strategy:
1) Provide a strong basis for Apple moving upscale into workstation world. The margins are high which is very compatible with Apple. The low-end Macs are not selling well. Apple is losing slowly but steadily in education. Apple is a far stronger company for audio/video/media apps than SGI or Sun and should be able to carve out marketshare. High-margin marketshare.
2) Provide a strong basis for Apple to position itself more and more as a software company — OS + Apps = Microsoft success formula. If Apple were to put out an Intel/x86 version of OS X, you’d find their valuation would go up at least 10X over the short run. Having the apps also provides Apple a core base of apps that will be in sync with Apple’s platform strategies. Apple could decide to move everything to a downscaled version of Power4, IBM’s current RISC architecture. Or Alpha EV7. Whatever it is, Apple will have an army of developers to port/implement key apps.
3) Further lock-in the audio/video Macintosh community so they CANNOT move to Windows without incurring massive switching costs. With more and more software companies coming under Apple’s control, the Macintosh community will find it much more difficult to change platforms. It may even be impossible. Until Apple comes out with OS X for another platform (if they do). This lock-in provides Apple will market stability and a very high degree of control over their customer.
So Apple has much to benefit from adding to their MacOS X software portfolio. What do they lose?
Well, Adobe is defocusing the Mac over time. They don’t want to compete with Apple. The music software companies that provide Mac software will partially/totally do the same. So will many of the other software companies that provide packages which compete with what Apple has recently purchased. Apple is creating disincentives to make software for OS X for key application areas.
Overall, the Apple strategy is sound. In a downmarket, it is proper time to purchase other companies, especially for stock. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
#m
The driving trend in computing is hardware commoditization. It is happening on every platform. When Legend comes on line in the United States, expect to see another wave of price deprecation. Moore’s Law says the the price/MIP over time trends toward zero.
If you are a hardware vendor such as Apple and are faced with the reality that all the mass-market hardware is getting super cheap, what’s your long term market success going to be based on? Not hardware, that’s for sure. You need software — especially MIPS-hungy software such as audio, video, film, etc apps — for your long-term value proposition.
Apple is providing a reason for people to buy Apple hardware, upgrade Apple hardware, and stay on Apple hardware. It is no different than many workstation/UNIX hardware companies. And in some ways it is an adaptation of Nvidia’s strategy to “own the pixel”.
Steve Jobs is doing a good job of keeping Apple alive. And he knows that’s all he’s doing. In the face of everything, he’s keeping his baby breathing. His market share drops every day, but he’ll find a way to keep the Rich and the Faithful.
It will only be if Steve Jobs opens Mac OS X to run on commodity hardware and adopts a strict ZEROMICROSOFT (not ZEROCONF) strategy that Apple will really grow. Anything else is just a postponement of death, accompanied by the Doors playing some morbid tune, “The Sound of Inevitability” as the Windows/PC train screeches ever closer.
Good luck Steve.
#m
And this is meant to benefit whom?????
I am one majorly pissed off musician. After spending $1800 AUD on Logic 5.0 last weekend I am now going to be going back to the place of purchase and return it ASAP. There is no way after spending thousands setting up my PC Audio rig, I will be holding onto a dead product. Unlike others out there in computer land, I haven’t the cash to splurge on a new MAC OSX Rig especially where in this country the eqivelant to my PC rig will set me back $8000 or more AUD.
I am one burnt consumer and I will be making my mark on this latest saga in consumer f*cking by a corporate.
Apple, from the days of the Apple ][ and on, has always had a very powerful anti-customer attitude. They’ve never believed in upgradeable hardware, reasonable prices, or good customer service. Often times you have to threaten them in order to get Apple to honor their warranty (and their standard non-AppleCare warranty is one of the worst in the business).
Steve Jobs is the source of this. When you are buying your new G4+/G5 hardware to run OS X 10.4 and paying $20000 AUD, remember that Steve loves you. Steve loves you so much. Your money, after all, is paying for his Gulfstream V. And his ONE BILLION DOLLARS of stock options. Damn does Steve love you. Heck, he loves that you bought one fancy G5 tower instead of three or four PC’s. He loves his Rich and Faithful flock.
That’s his happy little face grinning at you when your computer starts up. He knows he just bought another house or took another trip or got another ZILLION dollars of stock because of you. Of course he is smiling. All the way to his Swiss bank account.
Wake up! Apple does what it needs to benefit Apple! If you think they are one iota about you, then I’d recommend taking a lot of spirituality workshops and getting a guru. After you’ve fucked your life up completely you’ll finally realize Apple is just another cult of personality designed to part you from your money; they’re just another company that lives on fat margins and they’re doing everything that it takes to continue to live large so the executives can skim the cream and laugh at all the dupes that buy Macs.
“At Apple, we enable our customers to appreciate beauty through the gratuitous application of cruelty. You too can Dare To Be Stupid and switch to a Mac. We offer expensive computers with a small selection of Apple-branded applications. And we reward your full payment for your Macintosh with a smiley face. Because we love you.”
“Apple. The only computer slow enough that you can actually ponder what your life is about while you scroll through your documents. We give you the time to think. Different.”
#m
Apple rules and always will. Steve Jobs saved Apple from R.I.P. and he deserves to use whatever tactics he deems appropriate/necessary to make MacOS X as viable and popular as possible.
Needless to say, if I had enough money to buy a G4 Mac (the eMac has me salivating *QUITE* heavily), I’d own one… but money for Mac software is the real problem for me. I don’t have the nigh endless thousands I used to when I was single… *sigh*
What we give up for married life… 🙂
Your Logic software, on hearing the news of Apples company shopping, thought…
“Bloody Hell, I’d better shut down and never work again therefore my owner will have to take me back and buy a Mac”
Won’t your Logic windoze software still be usable after tommorrow?
Doesn’t software lifespan depend somewhat on how long you can use the software before it becomes incompatible with the latest hardware?
If you HAVE to upgrade your hardware and software the second there’s a new release I would think you may want to invest in a MC-300. It came out 15 odd years ago but still works fine providing you don’t try playing too many keys at once.
Your software hasn’t expired, try installing it…it probably still works.
Just my thoughts…
Michael, you’re right, of course Apple only does what it thinks is good for the company. All companies do that (or try to). So, I don’t understand the rant against Apple.
Steve Job’s only owns 5% of Apple’s stock. He also gets paid $1 per year salary. Apple has been turning about a $50 million per quarter profit on about $1.5 billion in gross revenue. They are thus making about 3.3% profit on their sales overall. You can argue that Apple is selling overpriced stuff compared to PCs but you can’t argue that Apple or Steve Jobs is milking their customers. The financials prove that this isn’t the case. Please try to keep the “Steve Jobs is trying to steal all your money” sensationalism in check please.
Apple has never been honest about performance, about price, about service, about real ease of use studies, about how they paid some of the recent “Switch” users to move to Mac, etc. Even looking at their “Top 10” reasons to switch, a PC provides a better solution for most people but Apple isn’t honest about this. And if the customer purchases a PC, they can afford that digital camera too.
Apple is brazen enough to sell cameras, camcorders, and other items on their site at full retail price and then even when a manufacturer reduces the MSRP, Apple doesn’t reduce their price right away. It’s all about capitalism with moral integrity. I don’t think Apple has much integrity. Whereas the PC industry is hell bent on reducing cost and increasing value, Apple is hell bent on misleading their customers and increasing margins. PC companies seem to believe in charging people a “fair price” while Apple believes in charging people “as much as possible” for as little as possible.
For example, it would cost Apple NEXT TO NOTHING to put nice C-Media 6 channel digital (including audio in and good positional audio) sound on every Mac sold. Do they do it? No. Would it be good for their customers? Yes. Do their customers lament not having good sound? Yes. Does Apple care? No. The same thing could be said for using newer graphics chips. Why the focus on the old chips that games (which Apple allegedly cares about) don’t run well on? Margins, not value.
If you look at Apple historically, not just in the current down economy, you will find a record of having some of the highest margins of any personal computer manufacturer. Steve owns $1B in stock options. That’s a lot of money by any standards. If Apple makes $200M in profit per year (from your figures), that’s ALL of Apple’s profits for FIVE YEARS. Huh? How does that make financial sense for Apple? And if you factor in the cost of a Gulfstream V, pilots, fuel, etc., that’s over $50M right there. Does Steve need all this compensation? He certainly isn’t poor. Pixar made him a billionaire. Apple could do amazing things with a billion dollars worth of stock — like purchase just about every single Macintosh software maker that exists outside of Microsoft and a couple other exceptions (Adobe, Avid, Macromedia, etc.) Or it could fund an amazing number of startups that would create entire new universes of cool Apple software.
Overall, Apple paints a very rosy picture and then doesn’t deliver on it. The current Apple computer, OS9.X or OS X is no easier to use than a PC. From a MIPS per dollar perspective, it offers less performance than a PC. Apple’s warranty service is not anything special unless you upgrade to AppleCare for a healthy increase in your system cost ($250 for a G4 tower).
I’ve owned and used Apple computers 20 years, starting with an Apple ][+. There is a reason that Apple’s market share is down to approximately 2%. It’s because substance solves real computing problems, not style. When Apple begins to focus as much energy on substance as it does on style, that 2% has a chance of growing larger, not smaller.
I don’t expect to see Apple as a player in the future unless they license their OS, reduce the cost of their computers, or become a workstation company. They are in the same situation they are always in with Steve at the helm. Too many strategies and no real focus.
It’s very difficult for any company to play in the education market, the low-end PC market, the mid-range market, and the high-end workstation market and the consumer digital hub / digital lifestyle market all at once and do well in all areas.
I personally hope to see more focus on the mid-range and high-end machines and more great applications such as Final Cut Pro. With Moore’s Law and hardware commoditization, I see no hope for Apple in the consumer market as the margins simply won’t be there. There is a non-established and fragmented market in the “digital hub”/”digital lifestyle” space and I would dump that whole direction. Apple has no core competencies in that area.
Apple did a solid job with OS X. And it continues to get better. As this OS is the only credible alternative to Windows today, I’d like to see it flourish.
So my invective regarding Apple is to cut the hype and start selling more substance and less style. I believe many potential Apple customers would rather pay for MIPS, RAM, disk space, disk speed, stablity, drivers, etc. than fancy white plastic hemispheres and fancy metal arms that hold up yesteryear’s LCD monitors.
Overall, I’m pleased with Apple buying the high-end audio/video/media software companies. There is a future there, not in overpriced and underpowered hardware which is on Moore’s devil ride.
#m
The very same people who are opposing Microsoft’s tactics support this and even giving tips to Apple on how to monpolize the pro/semi pro-audio market. Talk about hypocritic
What about the new stuff w/ longhorn? Microsoft does force ppl to use Windows (Look at how they killed beos).
Sorry, but I don’t know how Longhorn is going to be forced on users. You could build you own computer, slap on Linux, and be Microsoft free. If you want Windows, well, you have to pay them. Want to run Windows app without problem? Well, you have to buy Windows. It’s just like if you want to have the power of GeForce 4 Ti4600, you don’t buy a Intel 3D card and whine, and vice versa.
Apple has not been convicted, ergo apple is not a monopoly.
Apple is effective monopoly of the Mac OS market and the workstation PPC market. Live with that. Plus, Apple, with it’s monopoly power, killed all clone makers in order to survive, which is illegal under anti trust laws (but well, no one sued Apple).
Apple has such a small market share, so they can be anti-competitive (because they are not a monopoly)! Apple has the greater product, has the better hardware, yet they still have a small market share. So i’d assume MS, (Who has stolen their code to quicktime, who has stolen IP of others) not apple is the monopoly…
They are a monopoly in the workstation PPC market and in the Mac OS market. As for a greater product, I beg to differ. I could buy a much better piece of hardware from a PC clone than from Apple, and would be a much better deal for it. As for Microsoft stealing the code from QT, it is illegal without the anti trust laws and plus, Apple gained a lot from Microsoft stealing the code. As for stealing IP property, it is still illegal, and would be illegal without anti trust laws.
I’d rather like to see good product around no matther if they are commercial, free or opensource, but you can’t code good product if you have to make sure that the underlying OS won’t crash just because you ask for some resource, or that has loads of undocumented APIs that you must use if you want to have speed (since they will be loaded with the OS, no matter if you need them or not…)
Are you implying the latest release of Windows, which is Windows NT, not DOS-based, crashes more than Mac OS X? Absurd.
It will only be if Steve Jobs opens Mac OS X to run on commodity hardware and adopts a strict ZEROMICROSOFT (not ZEROCONF) strategy that Apple will really grow. Anything else is just a postponement of death, accompanied by the Doors playing some morbid tune, “The Sound of Inevitability” as the Windows/PC train screeches ever closer.
You must realize, Apple is a hardware company. Most of the R&D money goes into hardware. OS X is just one of the means to sell the hardware. And therefore Apple always sees itself as a hardware company. For what you ask for the happen, it would take a long while, and a lot of change. The whole businesss model would have to change.
What we give up for married life… 🙂
You are scaring the singles!
Michael, you’re right, of course Apple only does what it thinks is good for the company. All companies do that (or try to). So, I don’t understand the rant against Apple.
His rant, to my understanding, is pretty much summed up with your reply. Every for-profit companies out there are out for your money, live with it.
Steve Job’s only owns 5% of Apple’s stock. He also gets paid $1 per year salary. Apple has been turning about a $50 million per quarter profit on about $1.5 billion in gross revenue. They are thus making about 3.3% profit on their sales overall. You can argue that Apple is selling overpriced stuff compared to PCs but you can’t argue that Apple or Steve Jobs is milking their customers. The financials prove that this isn’t the case. Please try to keep the “Steve Jobs is trying to steal all your money” sensationalism in check please.
You need a reality check. Apple is a company out there for profits. Steve Jobs owns 5% of it, and therefore gets a lot of money if he manages to milk his customers. All companies out there is trying to get your money, may not count as stealling, but they are out there to get it in whatever means possible. Live with that. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Apple isn’t the divine representation of heaven, and Steve Jobs isn’t Jesus.
actually steve jobs only owns 1 share of aapl for symbolic purposes. get your info straight. -thx
“Are you implying the latest release of Windows, which is Windows NT, not DOS-based, crashes more than Mac OS X? Absurd. ”
considering Mac OS X is based on UNIX, which is proven to be more stable than Windows NT, yet that is what is being said. Have you used Mac OS X and had it crash? no? then stfu
The difference between Microsoft acquiring software and Apple doing so is simple. Microsoft acquires software and terminates the project so their own software (which is inferiour) would be the monopoly with no competition. What Apple does is acquire it and enhance it – look what it has done with Final Cut Pro and iTunes etc. True the fact that they dropped windows support sucks, but they only do so to focus their efforts at making the software better on Mac OS X, designing it for 2 OS’s is less efficient because half the time instead of enhancing the software you’re just porting code from one OS to another. After all, the OS shouldn’t matter – the total quality of the software should, and if Apple has to drop windows support (1/3 of the users) to make it better overall then so be it. Its not the OS that counts its the app itself.
“try buying a Mac that’s norecent mac cont made by Apple”
1. apple uses powerpc’s from motorola(g3s i believe were from ibm), i don’t know what else makes them “mac”, other than the cool looks and that MacOS.
2. ibm, motorola, and probably a few others sell PowerPC servers and computers.
re: recent mac convert
“He also gets paid $1 per year salary”
he got paid 1 dollar, and he got a PRIVATE JET. pretty good deal if you ask me.
actually steve jobs only owns 1 share of aapl for symbolic purposes. get your info straight. -thx
Are you implying that Jobs work so hard in order to have 1 share and 1 dollar pay per year? Get your info straigth. He doesn’t get his pay through the official pay means, but via his stock.
considering Mac OS X is based on UNIX, which is proven to be more stable than Windows NT, yet that is what is being said. Have you used Mac OS X and had it crash? no? then stfu
Actually, I have seen a Mac OS X kernel panic when 10.0 just came out (on a iMac with 64mb of RAM, whose speed turn me off), though Darwin had improve a lot from back then. But I haven’t seen a BSOD on Windows 2000 nor Windows XP before, except once on Windows XP where the hardware was failing. Other than that, is there any prove that Darwin is more stable than Windows NT? For one, it didn’t go through the stress test all systems with the UNIX trademark has.
So in other words, you have no prove that Mac OS X is more stable than Windows XP.
The difference between Microsoft acquiring software and Apple doing so is simple. Microsoft acquires software and terminates the project so their own software (which is inferiour) would be the monopoly with no competition.
I don’t remember them killing Visio and Frontpage. Any examples of them killing competitors via this method, maybe?
What Apple does is acquire it and enhance it – look what it has done with Final Cut Pro and iTunes etc.
I would hardly call iTunes better because Apple was behind it. For one, the most anticipated feature was skining, which Apple axed for it’s quite ugly metalic theme.
True the fact that they dropped windows support sucks, but they only do so to focus their efforts at making the software better on Mac OS X, designing it for 2 OS’s is less efficient because half the time instead of enhancing the software you’re just porting code from one OS to another.
I can’t believe you had fall for that. Apple is trying to build a secure niche in the audio market, effectively keeping competitors out. And how would they do that? Making sure most of the pro-audio apps are only available on Mac OS. Otherwise, why would they bother buying it? This was the same reasoning used for Final Cut Pro, and the same reason using for Nothing Real and a lot of other apps. Apple doesn’t care about the quality of the software unless it gives them some money.
Apple, from the days of the Apple ][ and on, has always had a very powerful anti-customer attitude.
Not an anti-customer attitude; a pro-profit attitude, the same attitude most other companies have. It’s less expensive not to treat your customers like royalty, so most companies don’t. If Apple fellated its customers, it would have to raise its prices; I know its margins are already high and it’s already got plenty of cash in the bank, but the reality is that the shareholders want to see black on those balance sheets, and historically, there has been a chorus of “Apple is dying!” whenever they turned out a quarterly loss ever since the ’80s. Which is why the prices/margins are what they are.
<p>They’ve never believed in upgradeable hardware, reasonable prices, or good customer service. Often times you have to threaten them in order to get Apple to honor their warranty (and their standard non-AppleCare warranty is one of the worst in the business).
<p>Firstly, the Power Macs etc. are very upgradeable. Try upgrading a circa 2000 PC which shipped with a 450MHz Pentium to dual 800MHz Pentiums; You can do this with a circa Power Mac. The motherboards are not upgradeable, but an upgradeable motherboard is not as important in a Mac because the processor card usually allows for more expandability down the line than a PC (which will probably need a new motherboard at the same time the CPU is upgraded). The iMacs/iBooks/PowerBooks aren’t, but they do have a substantially higher resale value than their PC equivalents, so instead of upgrading them every so often as one would a PC, it would make sense to simply use the machine for a couple years, sell it, and buy a new one, with approximately the same total expenditure as keeping a PC “up to date” with periodic upgrades. I agree that the non-AppleCare warranty sucks, though.
<p>Steve Jobs is the source of this. When you are buying your new G4+/G5 hardware to run OS X 10.4 and paying $20000 AUD, remember that Steve loves you. Steve loves you so much. Your money, after all, is paying for his Gulfstream V. And his ONE BILLION DOLLARS of stock options. Damn does Steve love you. Heck, he loves that you bought one fancy G5 tower instead of three or four PC’s. He loves his Rich and Faithful flock.
<p>I am a Mac user (and a PC and SGI user), but I have no particular love of Steve Jobs. Lots of CEOs are wealthy. As a matter of fact, most are… what’s your point?
<p>That’s his happy little face grinning at you when your computer starts up. He knows he just bought another house or took another trip or got another ZILLION dollars of stock because of you. Of course he is smiling. All the way to his Swiss bank account.
Good for him… It doesn’t concern me.
<p>Wake up! Apple does what it needs to benefit Apple! If you think they are one iota about you…
<p>I don’t.
<p>After you’ve fucked your life up completely you’ll finally realize Apple is just another cult of personality designed to part you from your money;
<p>The goal of EVERY corporation is to part one from his/her money.
<P>they’re just another company that lives on fat margins and they’re doing everything that it takes to continue to live large so the executives can skim the cream and laugh at all the dupes that buy Macs.
<p>I don’t know how much Apple executives make, but I would doubt that the figure is that different from, say, Dell or Gateway’s executives. As has already been pointed out, Steve Jobs gets a $1/year salary and owns one share of Apple stock. Less than most other computer company CEOs. I’m not saying he’s Jesus, and as I said, I really don’t care about Steve Jobs, but I don’t think he or other Apple execs are the Great Satans you’re making them out to be. I didn’t even bother responding to your next two paragraphs because they were nothing but spiteful rants.
Alex
http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,51244,00.html
Steve was given a Gulfstream V and Apple paid the associated taxes(90$M+) and Steve was also granted options on 20 million shares of Apple stock. At the time of the grant that was valued at over $1B. Since that time he has been given options on an additional 7.5 million shares.
His SALARY remained at $1/yr. When you can pay capital gains tax instead of income tax, you do it. It’s much nicer to pay roughly 20% vs. roughly 60%.
In the current dismal economy, most of his options are not worth anything currently. As they are good until 2010, chances are Steve stands to make good money as long as he doesn’t steer Apple into the iceberg. And if the economy had not crashed, Steve would be sitting on billions in stock options.
Now Jobs must figure out what to do with Apple now that the dotcom era is over. One might argue that if it had not been for the dotcom era, Apple would already be over. High-end audio? Film? Video? Doesn’t that mean the Fritz chip is coming soon to a Mac near you?
With the coming of the mini-itx, many cool PC’s are coming down the pipeline. Think “twice the iMac at half the price”, or “the Cube done right”. It takes people that actually care about customers vs. people that care only about their own egos to actually make good computers.
http://www.mini-itx.com/hardware.asp
Maybe mono-culture requires mono-button mice? That’s one thing I thought Steve would fix right away. Wait… that’s REAL usability not HYPE. We know OS neXt supports two-button mice… so what’s the deal? I might sound harsh about the mouse, but these are the little things that matter, not ultra-luxury MP3 players.
#m
Damn the 8k character limit and the fact that my reply to Michael’s other comment wasn’t saved when I hit the back button. Lucky bastard. It was a good one, too.
Is the OSNews suggestions forum still open?
As a longtime follower of Silicon Valley’s most famous soap opera, I’m always up for a good intense diatribe on Apple 😉
As for long web-form posts… the doctor recommends a good diet of ctrl-a / ctrl-c (translate as appropriate to Mac).
#m
The ISVs that served the music, video and photo editing users were very important in the survival of Apple even as they lost many casual users. These companies which would sell 700 dollar packages and back it up with very personal support. Often times when they made PC ports, they were inferior to the Mac software. Pitting themselves against their own ISV’s is a bad idea, many may drop their Mac software in retaliation.
When Jobs came back he lowered prices on Apple hardware, and came out with lower priced models(Imacs). But over the last couple of years Apple’s haven’t kept pace. Ram technology hasn’t moved on the macs and the G4 has doubled in speed while the x86 has more than quadroubled. The PPC was a partnership between IBM Motorola and Apple. Apple has favored Moto, had they pushed IBM they could probly get some of the Power4 series tech in thier cpu. I know that the IBM power CPU’s (though 64 bit) are related to the Powerpc’s. Maybe now is the time to go 64 bit. It should no problem to make OSX run on the new chip, and an emulation layer could be written to support legacy apps. Power4’s currently run at 1.3ghz, on an 0.18-µm fab. Obviously the power4 as it now is now is too expensive for macs. But it has two processor cores and tons of cache, with less cache, a single core, and a die shrink a IBM power chip would give Macs a leg up on PC’s. More info here, http://researchweb.watson.ibm.com/journal/rd/461/warnock.html
By they way Jobs has a ton of Apple stock, he started the company and he still has holdings from then. If Jobs had liquidated his holdings it would greatly devalue Apple stock.
“The very same people who are opposing Microsoft’s tactics support this and even giving tips to Apple on how to monpolize the pro/semi pro-audio market. Talk about hypocritic
”
rajan r. I think you were referring to my advice to mr jobs. Here is my perspective on this. Microsoft is an unrepented monopolist that will continue to play by Microsoft’s quite illegal rules. The doj is a joke and the bush administration will do anything they can to help MS’s abuse (provided the checks are coming in of course).
After arguing endlessly about the defeat of everyone including Be, inc. to MS, it is evident that the only way to survive with MS around is to play by MS rules. I am happy to see that someone finally gets it. If you play by the moral playbook with MS then you die. It is that simple. If you want to survive, with MS around, then you must play the same game.
Now that would not be the case if we had a legal system that protected companies and consumers from MS’s abuse of their monopoly. But we do not. So the choice is simple fight by their rules or die. i’d choose the former. Ethics are one thing complete stupidity (which you’d be if you played with MS like a boy scout) is another.
No Logic hasn’t stopped working but as a musician who appreciates availability of tools and someone who has started out with software purchases, I want to be able to purchase supported addons like software synths and the like. BTW, the program has bugs like looking for directIO.dll or its’ link when starting up to name one. I therefor would like some company backing and support and a future upgrade path. I also am looking at producing for fellow musicians and I want to build my studio utilising good tools.
In all, this pisses my plans up the spout and I don’t like laying down that amount of cash to have un supported products. I don’t do it for anything else why should audio software be any different. If I wanted a shaky software platform with little support I would try pro audio on Linux (although it would be nice if there was some decent supported software on Linux or BeOS).
I will also not support a company who sells the customer short, no matter what and thus my software is returning to its’ point of origin, Emagic. By way of my retailer, their distributer and finally the smucks who sold out on the PC platform.
Enough reasons?
to see this happen to the Windows platform. Apple should buy Adobe next.
“considering Mac OS X is based on UNIX, which is proven to be more stable than Windows NT, yet that is what is being said. Have you used Mac OS X and had it crash? no? then stfu”
exactly, based on unix. its not unix. and besides desktop computers are always going to crash more than server computers anyways, because people are going to run games and stuff. both windows 200 xp and mac osx have memory protection, and i am glad they both finally got those to consumers. blah.. took them forever.
i rarely have my win xp crash. it stays on 24/7. and i only reboot if i install new drivers. whenever a “crash” does happen,its because i cant get to the task menu to close something.. because some game won’t let me task out. thats not really a problem of windows.. but the programmers who made their game non taskable. i never get blue screen crashes.
jedi knight 2 has that no task out deal. you cant task out. not sure why. i guess they diddnt like tasking.
Since Apple controls their own hardware they have less to support. I would think that this would help them to some degree.
As for Windows: I didn’t buy Windows XP, so I can’t comment on it, but W2K was pretty stable for me. NT4 wasn’t bad either, except that you needed to reboot 10 thousand times when setting up your system.
“Any examples of them [Microsoft] killing competitors via this method, maybe? ”
One example is when they bought FoxPro, terminated the project and pushed their own software, Access.
“Actually, I have seen a Mac OS X kernel panic when 10.0 just came out (on a iMac with 64mb of RAM, whose speed turn me off)”
Well you actually prove your point yourself: “when 10.0 just came out”, “on a iMac with 64mb”. Since 10.0 there have been major speed increases especially in 10.1 and sources who have used upcoming 10.2 release say its also much speedier. Also, does Windows XP run blazingly fast on a celeron with 64mb ram?
As for the kernel panic, all kernel panics in Mac OS X are hardware based, there has been no reported kernel panics in Mac OS X due to software.
“exactly, based on unix. its not unix”
If its based or is unix does not matter. even though by I have read that by some standart unix definition Mac OS X is actually unix because it follows some guidelines, but linux also by that definition is merely unix based thus it being unix based or unix doesnt matter – the performance does.
“whenever a “crash” does happen,its because i cant get to the task menu to close something.. because some game won’t let me task out. thats not really a problem of windows.. but the programmers who made their game non taskable. ”
Actually it is a problem of windows that they assume programs will make their app taskable. It should not matter if a program is written badly – it should not take down your system. Furthermore in Mac OS X the GUI is not connected to the kernel, whereas in windows it is. In Mac OS X if the GUI crashes it does not take the system down it just takes 2 secs to reboot itself.
And yes I agree Windows 2k Pro and XP are very stable especially if you look at windows 98 or 95 or Me etc. But the fact is, Microsoft reports Windows XP’s average uptime with excessive use is 4.5 days without crashes. For Mac OS it is much greater than that.
rajan r. I think you were referring to my advice to mr jobs. Here is my perspective on this. Microsoft is an unrepented monopolist that will continue to play by Microsoft’s quite illegal rules. The doj is a joke and the bush administration will do anything they can to help MS’s abuse (provided the checks are coming in of course).
Why must Microsoft bow down to their competitors when it is their products and they are the sole reason they succeeded?
After arguing endlessly about the defeat of everyone including Be, inc. to MS, it is evident that the only way to survive with MS around is to play by MS rules. I am happy to see that someone finally gets it. If you play by the moral playbook with MS then you die. It is that simple. If you want to survive, with MS around, then you must play the same game.
That is true for any market, with a monopolist or not. One must play hard. There is no such thing as fair in a laissez-faire capitalistic world. Unfortunately, the US Congress had opted to help the weaker competitors by punishing the stronger ones, all in the name of the consumer. If the Congress really want the consumer to benefit, wouldn’t they NOT had passed bills like the DMCA? Plus, how did consumers benefited from the breakup of Standard Oil?
Now that would not be the case if we had a legal system that protected companies and consumers from MS’s abuse of their monopoly. But we do not.
With anti trust laws, we live in a world where weaker competitors get an unfair advantage with the stronger ones. It is just like in the Olympics, they don’t break the legs of the fast runners so that the slower ones could win. Also, with the dismiss of Microsoft ala the anti trust method or the method you have suggested, I have failed to see how the consumer would be protected.
I have not said that Apple’s act is not ethical, and in fact, it is ethical. It is because it is their money and the company is now theirs, they have no obligations to EMagic’s Windows customers, none at all. The same goes for Microsoft tactics. Some of which aren’t morally correct, like stealing IP of other companies (which is illegal under a laissex-faire capitalistic economy), but others like integration software is totally correct.
One example is when they bought FoxPro, terminated the project and pushed their own software, Access.
IIRC, a lot of FoxPro code is in Access. They had integrated a lot of FoxPro features into it. So, they choose not to have two database applications and decide to slowly merge them, so what?
Well you actually prove your point yourself: “when 10.0 just came out”, “on a iMac with 64mb”. Since 10.0 there have been major speed increases especially in 10.1
Let me quote myself back: “Actually, I have seen a Mac OS X kernel panic when 10.0 just came out (on a iMac with 64mb of RAM, whose speed turn me off), though Darwin had improve a lot from back then.“. Thanks for cutting off my point and attacking me 🙂
10.2 release say its also much speedier. Also, does Windows XP run blazingly fast on a celeron with 64mb ram?
I didn’t mention speed, did I? Plus, I have seen Windows XP running on a Duron 1.2ghz with 64mb of SDRAM, which is pretty close to that Celeron. It didn’t have any BSOD, but very slow.
It is amazing how you mix stablity and speed into one attack 🙂 Besides, I know quite a lot of Linux, and that kernel panic is in a form which I could understand. The fault was with the HFS+ partition in which OS X is running on, it crashed, bring down the system. I didn’t see that iMac running OS X again, I’m guessing it’s file system got corrupted.
As for the kernel panic, all kernel panics in Mac OS X are hardware based, there has been no reported kernel panics in Mac OS X due to software.
The same goes for Windows XP.
If its based or is unix does not matter. even though by I have read that by some standart unix definition Mac OS X is actually unix because it follows some guidelines, but linux also by that definition is merely unix based thus it being unix based or unix doesnt matter – the performance does.
While Mac OS X follows most of the UNIX standards, it didn’t go through the series of test that all UNIX systems have to go through. These test would make sure the system is stable even under high stress. Mac OS X doesn’t need all that as it is made for the desktop, and not to control traffic in New York.
Actually it is a problem of windows that they assume programs will make their app taskable. It should not matter if a program is written badly – it should not take down your system. Furthermore in Mac OS X the GUI is not connected to the kernel, whereas in windows it is. In Mac OS X if the GUI crashes it does not take the system down it just takes 2 secs to reboot itself.
If you actually read his comments, he said the application didn’t bring down the system. Using some other application while the app is running in the background crashes the app. And that is the programmer’s fault.
As for having the graphics server, I have failed to see why does this makes the system more unstable. If the shell (Explorer.exe) crashes, you could reload it (and it does reload automatically under Windows XP). I have never seen Windows XP crash because the graphics server crash, the same way I have never seen Quartz crash. Also, OT, on a equally speced system, Windows XP boots up much faster than Mac OS X. This is even more apparent when you are using an equally priced system (which is better is specs).
And yes I agree Windows 2k Pro and XP are very stable especially if you look at windows 98 or 95 or Me etc. But the fact is, Microsoft reports Windows XP’s average uptime with excessive use is 4.5 days without crashes. For Mac OS it is much greater than that.
I have ran Windows XP for 30 days, and I had just rebooted a day ago in order to fully install an Windows Update. I haven’t really seen much crashes, if any in the first place. As for Mac OS X uptime, I haven’t use it that long to know (lol). My Linux box had been running for 64 days until last month when a thunder storm came by (and unlike the Windows XP laptop, the computer can’t stay on while the electric is shut off :-). (PS, could you provide a microsoft.com link showing that Windows XP has only an uptime of 4.5 days? If that’s the case, then Windows 98 has a higher uptime accroading to MS – 14 days).
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16760-2002Jun20.html
With the recent Supreme Court decision protecting mentally retarded people, I think we have to be kinder and gentler using logic with Apple users. I feel they are just slow people looking for a little love and understanding. And Apple just bought some LOGIC for their very own. Let’s make sure to give them time for it to sink in.
And having said that, let me repost the latest on Apple from Yahoo! Finance:
http://messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=4686874&tid=aap…
*AAPL Warning = R.I.P. Macheads*
by: tvlkto 07/02/02 06:28 pm
Msg: 238104 of 238129
Oh well, looks like the recent AAPL warning has made many Macheads finally abandon ship.
Ever since AAPL’s June 18, 2002 warnng, many of the usual Macheads on this baord have virtually disappeared except for a few token posts immediately after the warning.
Only a handful of Macheads remain, but their posts are definitely thinning out.
***** R.I.P. *****
Date:
…to June 18, 2002 AAPL Warning Day
Macheads:
LURKER58CA (and his aliases)
PANTONE101NATURALBLONDE (and his alaises)
W60
SPUCKLEY
MARK_PALMB(e)RG
AAPL warned again, another living hell,
Losing out to profitable PC maker DELL.
AAPL’s losing domestic and global share,
AAPL’s stock price, a Machead’s worst nightmare.
While PC makers focussed on price and power,
AAPL’s R&D said, “Pink, Dalmation, or Flower?”.
Macheads often complain and complain,
But what’s weird is that they bought Jobs an airplane.
When facing facts, Macheads are afraid,
Even when it’s about mass Insider trades.
AAPL’s share price has plummetted, Macheads bilked,
It’s no surprise, they love getting milked.
Macheads are often described as smoking bongs,
It makes it all the sweeter, since TVLKTO was right all along.
#m
oh uh btw if I had a quarter for every time someone has said that Apple is gonna die soon in the past 10 years I would be richer than Bill Gates
http://www.computersandmusic.com/xcgi/SoftCart.exe/store1/news.html…
Computers & Music’s Take on the Apple / Emagic Acquisition.
>> Joe West.
This is a pretty big deal, as it will have an effect on just about all companies in the music software business. Some will be much more effected than others will…
About Logic
Logic reached its current prominence with professionals for more than a few reasons however the main reason is at least a bit interesting. When digital audio first became an option for use with the Macintoshs there were four choices. Opcode’s Studiovision Pro, Mark of the Unicorn’s Digital Performer, Steinberg’s Cubase, and Emagic’s Logic. At that time most professionals had been using MIDI only versions of Vision and Performer. Both Logic and Cubase were a distant third and fourth. When pro’s started upgrading to the audio versions of these programs they were saddened to find that all but one was virtually unusable in a professional environment. This was due to either excessive crashing or timing problems. Only Logic worked properly. The pros had to switch to get their work done and even though Digital Performer finally got everything working right and in many ways is a superior program, professionals will stick with what works and Logic works.
Why did Apple purchase Emagic?
Apple’s recent market positioning has them making available products with the Apple brand for the production of video, film, and other software and hardware products for the entertainment industry. They have been purchasing companies for a while for DVD authoring and other similar applications, and the lack of a professional audio solution apparently bothered them. So a few big shots decided to ask a few pros (who happened to use Logic) what company or product would be best suited to solve their problem. This is probably why it happened the way it did. You could add talent to the reasons as Emagic has some very talented engineers who are now Apple engineers.
Emagic and the future
The Logic Platinum user interface is almost anti-Apple. So we probably won’t see Logic Platinum being offered in its present form along side Final Cut, iTunes, etc. Emagic has developed a few programs for other companies (Roland, MIDIMan) and these programs are more intuitive than Platinum although still not Apple-like. Something has to change.
There will be an audio application with Apple’s logo on it in the near future. My best guess is that it probably isn’t going to be a long way off. Maybe they will call it Logic Titanium and it will only run under OSX. It may or may not be as powerful as Logic Platinum. My guess is that it will not, at least not the first release.
The more important question for users of Logic is just how much will Apple effect the future development of a very professional program that is being used by many musicians and engineers. The answer certainly isn’t clear. Apple will determine Emagic’s direction, because they own the company now. It is clear that the current group of Emagic owners and developers will no longer be the determining force behind the software.
So what is Apple going to do with their new company after they get what they want (Logic Titanium)? My best guess is that development of Platinum will either stop or slow down considerably until the new product’s first phase is completed and there is a good chance it will be slowly phased out as an Apple branded version matures. I suspect most of the engineers working on various projects at Emagic will be assigned to the new product and other projects will be put on hold. The future of soft synths, soft samplers, and plug-ins are in question. I suspect there will be a new low cost USB audio interface fairly soon along with a more Apple like MIDI interface. There doesn’t seem to be any consensus from all I’ve read so far on whether Apple will market more professional hardware for recording. This is one area where the acquisition doesn’t help Apple. Emagic’s audio hardware is far inferior to the competition where Digidesign and Mark of the Unicorn pretty much dominate.
Probably the only good news for Logic users is that there will be a new manual. Apple will not market the manual that comes with Logic. It is so non-Apple.
Apple computer is a large company who has entered a market dominated by relatively small companies. Most of the advances in our industry have come about due to the competition between these small companies and while this will continue for a bit, it’s difficult to see how it can be maintained. Mark of the Unicorn’s current direction is exactly the same as Apple’s current direction and that is to replace Digidesign’s dominance in the music professional’s market just as Final Cut Pro’s direction is to dominate the video editing market. While Digidesign’s high-end Pro Tools system looks quite safe for awhile, their lower end systems (Mbox and 001) will take a major hit. I can guarantee there’s going to be a whole lot of meetings at music software companies as they try to digest all this and reconsider their company’s direction.
“Because this is where I got the news first time when I woke up this morning. If I had found it on Apple’s site, I would have linked there.
As for the person who wrote the article, is a personal friend of mine (in “real” life
so be careful how you talk over here.”
First of all, I have not read anything at all useful or truly informative on the Register. That’s just my experience–sorry. Everything I read on there ends up being bullocks or might as well be. It’s the most BS and slanted tech news site I’ve ever seen on the web.
Secondly, the fact that you’re defending it on this site by saying that the author of the story is a personal friend of yours… oh boy, whatever happened to unbiased, objective news? Your one post single-handedly has convinced me to stop reading OSNews.com, even though the discussion threads are often quite amusing. I just can’t stand slanted press..
As for Logic Audio — it is a known issue that audio apps tend to have problems and/or crash on Windows machines. There is a reason that the bulk of pro audio production is done on a Mac. So why should Apple now spend the extra resources (considering they just spent probably a significant amount of cash) to develop for a platform that doesn’t play nice w/ audio when they can just provide their customers with a better solution (Apple HW)?
If the cost of jumping platforms is your argument, consider that the time saved on wrestling w/ your PC (I talk to ppl who deal w/ that sh*t everyday) can translate into more time to actually work on your project, which in turn is more money made. Keep in mind that the majority of people using SW like Logic are also in the business of making money w/ their creative work.
I’ll stop rambling now.
> Secondly, the fact that you’re defending it on this site by saying that the author of the story is a personal friend of yours… oh boy, whatever happened to unbiased, objective news?
What the f*ck are you talking about? This specific article on the Register is JUST FINE. And what if Andrew is a friend of mine? What does THAT has to do with THIS article and with the “unbiased, objective news?”
Please, by all means. Get the f*ck out of here, if you can’t think straight.