Home > X11 > Full Wayland setup on Arch Linux Full Wayland setup on Arch Linux Thom Holwerda 2021-03-10 X11 19 Comments This article is a guide for achieving a full-as-possible Wayland setup on Arch Linux. This guide does exactly what it says – it helps you set up a complete Arch Linux installation that is as Wayland as possible. About The Author Thom Holwerda Follow me on Twitter @thomholwerda 19 Comments 2021-03-10 9:31 pm sj87 Just install Gnome and reboot. 2021-03-11 3:44 am The123king I use Arch BTW 2021-03-11 5:14 pm Flatland_Spider Do you have a minute? I’d like to tell you about Arch Linux. 2021-03-11 8:23 pm sj87 I’m vegan too. Sorry, I meant that I use Arch too. 2021-03-13 1:34 pm javiercero1 There’s a Vegan Arch user who does CrossFit out there, that I would like to meet just to bet on what of those 3 items they will let me know about in an unsolicited matter. 2021-03-11 2:36 am Erez It goes a bit further than “helps you set up a complete Arch Linux installation that is as Wayland as possible”. It also infests a tiling window manager on you which is kinda like saying “a guide to electric vehicles” which insists that you should only travel by e-scooters. Gnome on Arch is using Wayland, so once you have it you are basically set, because the rest of the deal is just applications that don’t have Wayland support and need to be ported. If you want to use a tiling manager, be my guest, but most users would want a more “graphic” environment, not to mention one that isn’t cargo-culted to keyboard navigation in 2021. 2021-03-12 3:13 am Artem S. Tashkinov The fact that you need a guide to setup GUI for Linux speaks volumes about where Linux is in terms of being a successful OS. 2021-03-12 3:59 am Kochise *hugs* At least on the GUI side, as a headless OS, Linux is pretty successful IMHO. 2021-03-12 10:10 am ndrw Since when extra docs are bad? There are tons of official docs and blog posts about all sorts of regular usage of MS Windows or Office, does it make these products worse? Wayland is an experimental UI stack. If it was developed at Microsoft or Apple you wouldn’t have a chance to try it for another five years. If you are not interested in trying it, don’t use it. That’s a privilege, not a requirement. 2021-03-12 11:24 am oiaohm –Wayland is an experimental UI stack. If it was developed at Microsoft or Apple you wouldn’t have a chance to try it for another five years. That not quite right. Wayland now is like where Windows Vista was when it released with its changes. I am not saying Wayland does not have sharp issues. Anyone who used Windows Vista in the first 3 years had some major issues including Nvidia being a jackass with drivers. X.org X11 server on bare metal has ceased new feature development at this time. Apple waiting until product is 100 percent quality on GUI does happen. Microsoft releasing compositor before its 100 percent supported and working that is something Microsoft has absolute done. Also Wayland in it current form is still not as much nightmare as Microsoft Windows ME. Even if you come forwards looking at Windows 7 there are sections of that released before its really usable in the right ways. Take windows 10 split personality configuration system mess. Sorry to say Microsoft is not a good example of waiting until something is right before dropping it on end users. Microsoft has historic to current examples of dropping half done or less done work on poor end users and saying deal with it. 2021-03-12 2:43 pm ndrw You are right about the drivers – MS has indeed dropped the ball with Vista. I was thinking mostly about unfinished or missing APIs. Implementations build their own private APIs, which creates a perception that Wayland already works. If the only thing you interested in is Gnome OS and not Linux (heaven forbid BSD) you can try it today. But then, why even bother with Linux – simply buy a Mac. We need several DEs to adopt Wayland and then iron out differences in their APIs the way they have done it in early fd.o times. This will take years. Drivers is a legal/business issue with NVidia, which is easily solvable by buying hardware from other vendors (AMD, Intel). So, if you want to use Wayland today that’s a non-issue. As for NVidia, I don’t expect them to change their position for a while – both commercial Linux desktop users and gamers are very strongly tied to X11. It’s more likely they will get some push towards Wayland from the mobile/automotive customers. 2021-03-12 5:00 pm Flatland_Spider Nvidia has started working on Wayland support. as of January 2021. 2021-03-13 3:33 am Kochise And Wayland started late 2008, more than 12 years back. 12 years of “experimentation”… Wayland, no way to go obviously. 2021-03-13 5:57 pm oiaohm Nvidia is changing there position. NVIDIA’s 470 series Linux driver will have Wayland / DMA-BUF support at long last. 2013 open source driver stack started using DMA-BUF with wayland due to security issues and stability with the old GEM solution Eglstreams from from nvidia has suffered from all the same problems as the old open source GEM solution. Yes right down to the Nvidia developer working on Nvidia support in KDE having to admit last year 2019 that the Nvidia drivers were security broken and he would have get new drivers so wayland compositors could work properly. Yes and when they finally admitted this was security broken you saw many CVE published for Windows when using Nvidia drivers. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-GitHub-Doc-Memory-Alloc Yes here is 2016 Nvidia fighting against DMA-BUF and GBM from the open source side and then has failed to deliver a solution. Kochise like it or not yes Wayland starts in 2008 but from 2008 to current for your low end backend parts that you need with wayland there has been a dog fight with Nvidia. Big problem here was getting Nvidia to admit what they were doing was completely wrong. This dog fight is horrible. Think about it you want to implement screen capture with open source drivers you could use DMA BUF for that now with eglstreams while Nvidia did not support DMA BUF this was doing something unique for Nvidia. Say hello to needing a proxy item to represent the buffer. Leading to more disagreements between different compositor vendors what information should be in this proxy item. Nvidia being argumentative has made wayland progress a lot slower. Nvidia being argumentative and not properly checking out security issues the open source world said DMA BUF fixed left windows users exposed. Please note the arguements with Nvidia are not over like why cannot Nvidia simple just support KMS and GBM like all other graphics drivers on Linux and BSD do. Flatland_Spider I would not say started working on Wayland support as of January 2021. I would say Jan 2021 Nvidia has truly internally to admit that the path they were attempting to push Wayland down was totally insecure and unstable because their own developer working on KDE was forced to publicly admit that in KDE bug system in 2019. There is only so far you can get when one of your problems is a driver vendor making garbage and users of that hardware are demarding you support it. Yes there are a lot of people who were saying Wayland could not replace X11 if it did not support Nvidia hardware and this was pushing Wayland compositor developers to support Nvidia broken garbage offerings. 2021-03-12 10:24 am Alfman birdie, The fact that you need a guide to setup GUI for Linux speaks volumes about where Linux is in terms of being a successful OS. That sounds like a very loaded statement. You’re making a broad generalization about linux over optional components of a very small distro. I’ve never used arch linux, but it speaks very little to mainstream distros. I’ve never needed a guide to setup a GUI for redhat, suse, debian, ubuntu, etc. Wayland is bundled with ubuntu and is some two clicks away on the login screen. I’m not one to deny when linux has legitimate problems, but that was a cheap shot 🙂 2021-03-12 4:45 pm Flatland_Spider The comment is even dumber since Arch is a DIY Linux kit. It doesn’t even have an installer. It’s like a binary Gentoo or a maintainable Linux From Scratch. Saying Arch Linux reflects poorly on the state of Linux is like taking a woodworking class and saying building furniture reflects poorly on the state of the furniture market. Arch Linux is really a package manager, build servers, and a wiki which help people maintain a Linux installation. 2021-03-12 2:00 pm oiaohm Sorry birdie this is a comment appears to be written idiot who knows next nothing about Linux and Windows. https://sourceforge.net/projects/rebeccablackos/ The reality is Linux is not one thing their are many forms of Linux that have been around for quite some time where you don’t need any instructions to setup wayland because they come out the box preconfigured. So no you don’t need a guide to setup a GUI for Linux all the time its just picking the right distribution on Linux if you want a particular GUI to make your life simple. Just like with Windows 10 there is more than 1 this is why you are being a total idiot. Windows 10 IoT Core does not come with a desktop either. IoT core you can run 1 graphical application at a time and that is it and there is no way to convert it into anything else. Yes its not possible to write a instruction guide to turn Windows 10 IoT Core into a normal desktop OS. Most Linux distributions targeted at headless servers…. you can write instruction guide turn them into a desktop. Or in this case out the box GUI install of arch gives you X.org server stuff setup if you want wayland you can do instructions and change it. Notice something here if this was Microsoft it would be buy a different product version with no possibility of writing conversion instructions that are long term stable. Yes lazy way Linux you use a distribution that is configured how want. 2021-03-12 4:37 pm Flatland_Spider It’s Arch Linux, and Arch is a bucket of legos. It doesn’t even have an installer. It has a guide which will walk you through installation. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installation_guide This isn’t a reflection on Linux distros as there are plenty which provide DEs prepackaged for minimal work (Fedora, Ubuntu, Manjaro, OpenSuse, Elementary). This is a reflection of Arch’s DIY philosophy. 2021-03-13 1:36 pm javiercero1 Linux is a total failure! — Posted from Android.